Get us out of the europa league!!!!!

[Robspur12]

Yeah, I think we should just do a Chelsea under di Matteo.

**** the league, we can't win the title, we are 6 points off fourth with an awful goal difference but STILL in with a chance of Europa League as it's the only cup we're left in. Go all out for it.

Agree 100% those bottle jobs we call players need to give the fans something back. Today was really shocking, Norwich pressed better, attacked better, and defended better we were beaten all over the park. I can almost forgive the Defence as most of them travelled to Ukraine but our midfield and attack should hang their heads in shame. Angry too with Tim for not being able to get the players up for this one. Not good enough. Realistically though we have not been good enough for a top 4 place this season unlike the previous 2. It would have taken an enormous amount of luck tbh liver scum deserve it.

 

[mudshark]

well this is what im trying to get to the bottom of - i don't think we can use home European games in the case study as it's no different from playing an extra league/domestic cup fixture midweek. if you wanted to use those as an indicator i think it would be fair to chuck in any time where we have played 2 games a week over the course of the season so we have a wider set of fixtures to get a reading from. (what's the difference between a home Euro cup game than any other at the end of the day?)


so for me im more interested in looking at the away European games and the subsequent league results.

... and we seem to have picked up points in the league games following away EL fixtures at almost twice the rate we have following those at home, which sort of suggests the travel, etc. isn't the most significant factor.

 

[Robspur12]

there probably is and im not really trying to deny that it has an effect - im just arguing the answer isn't to give up on the extra games - it's to get better at coping with them.

=D>

 

[braineclipse]

there probably is and im not really trying to deny that it has an effect - im just arguing the answer isn't to give up on the extra games - it's to get better at coping with them.

I agree with that! For sure...

But a lot of people seem to just have a gut "nope, not a thing" reaction whenever someone brings up that the congested fixture list might be influencing our results. I find that strange.

 

[SpurMeUp]

there probably is and im not really trying to deny that it has an effect - im just arguing the answer isn't to give up on the extra games - it's to get better at coping with them.

This I agree with.

Re fixture congestion it depends on the other team, if they have played 3 days ago as well. But its not just travel is it? I think preparation is key.

If we qualify again, next year we could have a dedicated EL manager who plays the second team and focuses on the competition gaining any advantage possible. While the first team manager stays in the UK with his first team players and does everything he can to win domestic games.

 

[billyiddo]

haha that wouldn't be the worst of ideas... not sure it would fly though


maybe if we bring in a manager who Sherwood is happy to work underneath this sort of thing could be given the go ahead - would be interesting to see how that would develop.

 

[P.D.]

No point moaning, if we want to be in the CL then we will also play midweek. Wednesday - Saturday is the same as Thursday - Sunday really. Granted Sunday is difficult because if the others win on Saturday then there can be added pressure but we need to be able to handle it.

 

[SUIYHA]

In the 2009/10 season, we finished with 70 points and qualified for the Champions League ahead of Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

Whilst we did have Luka Modric in that season, he spent a big chunk of it out injured, whilst Gareth Bale was still the reserve left-back for most of it and didn't start to feature until the second half of the season.

The likes of Jermaine Jenas, Wilson Palacios, Peter Crouch and Robbie Keane in his ultimate "pointy shouty bloke" phase, were first XI players for much of the season. Even the back-up consisted of David Bentley, Roman Pavyluchenko and Alan Hutton.

Even looking at the likes of Jermain Defoe, Heurelho Gomes, Niko Kranjcar and Tom Huddlestone, some of our better first team players that season, were they really any better than what we have now?


...but, we massively overachieved and finished in the top 4, ahead of two teams that nobody saw us finishing ahead of, with a points total in the 70's for the first time in the Premier League era that nobody saw us reaching. How? I would say that it was massively down to the factor that makes that season unique amongst our last 8 seasons - no European games to deal with.

Just for further comparison - the last time before the 09/10 season that we didn't play in Europe was the 05/06 season. That season we were using players like Grzegorz Rasiak, Anthony Gardner, Calum Davenport, Andy Reid, Stephen Kelly, Johnnie Jackson, Michael Brown, Lee Barnard and Wayne Routledge in our Premier League campaign. Yet we still only missed out on a Champions League spot on the final day of the season because of a dodgy lasagne. Why? Because we went out of both cups in the first round and could concentrate on the league. Not sure how much more evidence that some of you need.

 

[Viper]

I think half the problem with the Europa League is that you do swap players out and disrupt the team. Play your best team every game and deal with injuries when they happen. If you keep chopping and changing players get confused, and some today hadn't played since Saudi Sportswashing Machine and looked lethargic and too rested.

 

[billyiddo]

Spoiler

In the 2009/10 season, we finished with 70 points and qualified for the Champions League ahead of Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

Whilst we did have Luka Modric in that season, he spent a big chunk of it out injured, whilst Gareth Bale was still the reserve left-back for most of it and didn't start to feature until the second half of the season.

The likes of Jermaine Jenas, Wilson Palacios, Peter Crouch and Robbie Keane in his ultimate "pointy shouty bloke" phase, were first XI players for much of the season. Even the back-up consisted of David Bentley, Roman Pavyluchenko and Alan Hutton.

Even looking at the likes of Jermain Defoe, Heurelho Gomes, Niko Kranjcar and Tom Huddlestone, some of our better first team players that season, were they really any better than what we have now?


...but, we massively overachieved and finished in the top 4, ahead of two teams that nobody saw us finishing ahead of, with a points total in the 70's for the first time in the Premier League era that nobody saw us reaching. How? I would say that it was massively down to the factor that makes that season unique amongst our last 8 seasons - no European games to deal with.

Just for further comparison - the last time before the 09/10 season that we didn't play in Europe was the 05/06 season. That season we were using players like Grzegorz Rasiak, Anthony Gardner, Calum Davenport, Andy Reid, Stephen Kelly, Johnnie Jackson, Michael Brown, Lee Barnard and Wayne Routledge in our Premier League campaign. Yet we still only missed out on a Champions League spot on the final day of the season because of a dodgy lasagne. Why? Because we went out of both cups in the first round and could concentrate on the league.

Not sure how much more evidence that some of you need.

so whats gonna happen when we ditch the Europa League to get 4th spot and then have to deal with juggling Champions League and domestic football? by your reckoning we'll be back out of the top 4 straight away so it begs the question - what is the point?

 

[SUIYHA]

so whats gonna happen when we ditch the Europa League to get 4th spot and then have to deal with juggling Champions League and domestic football? by your reckoning we'll be back out of the top 4 straight away so it begs the question - what is the point?

Simple.

Champions League football = more prestige and more money to attract and retain better players.

To cope with the extra demands of European football, you either need a huge squad that can be rotated (we were there at the start of the season but have since let Defoe and Holtby go and have lost Sandro, Sigurdsson, Lamela etc to injury), or players that are that much better than your average Premier League opposition that they can still beat them when fatigued.

Football is a game of fine margins, as we've seen all too often this season. If we're doing things to give our players that extra little advantage, the rewards are potentially huge.

 

[Robspur12]

The winning mentality starts here. If we are to change as a club it starts by winning things not limply giving up on tournaments.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

This thread maybe an over reaction but I really feel that this competition has held us back for many a year.

Just look at both seasons (2009/10 & 2011/12) we finished top four, the first we didn't play in Europe all together and in the second Harry rested all the first team players in what was a favourable group.

There are other issues affecting us, in fact there seems to be a shed load of them at the moment that refuse to go away but the Europa League is something I am sick of now, UEFA ruined it once they enlarged the Champions League back 2002.

 

[braineclipse]

The winning mentality starts here. If we are to change as a club it starts by winning things not limply giving up on tournaments.

Remember United under Ferguson giving up on the FA-cup because of the club world cup?

Most CL teams are willing to limply giving up on the league cup unless the kids can sort them out through the first rounds. Most top English teams give up on the EL if dumped out of the CL group stages it seems.

 

[Robspur12]

Remember United under Ferguson giving up on the FA-cup because of the club world cup?

Most CL teams are willing to limply giving up on the league cup unless the kids can sort them out through the first rounds. Most top English teams give up on the EL if dumped out of the CL group stages it seems.

Maybe but that is usually when they already have a history of winning things.

 

[braineclipse]

Maybe but that is usually when they already have a history of winning things.

Just pointing out that there's more than one way to skin a cat.

Emirates Marketing Project went from quietly whimpering out of the EL to winning the league title later that year in 11/12.

You don't have to put together some epic hero story of moving from strength to strength through all the adversity to build the right mentality I think. I don't like the idea of just ditching the EL when in it, but we have to find a balance between going for that and going for the league. I think both Redknapp and AVB missed that balance by some distance, although on different sides of the spectrum.

 

[spurs' magna carter]

Greg Stobart ‏@gstobart 7h

Five of Tottenham's 7 league defeats this season have come after Europa League matches. Shocking performance today, so little energy

Our form from PL games after EL matches.

P9 W3 D1 L5 F5 A13 Pts 10

17 points dropped. Granted the EL isn't entirely at blame especially when you consider such horror shows as West Ham and Liverpool at home but it isn't ideal and we've seen this too many times before.

 

[braineclipse]

In the 2009/10 season, we finished with 70 points and qualified for the Champions League ahead of Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

Whilst we did have Luka Modric in that season, he spent a big chunk of it out injured, whilst Gareth Bale was still the reserve left-back for most of it and didn't start to feature until the second half of the season.

The likes of Jermaine Jenas, Wilson Palacios, Peter Crouch and Robbie Keane in his ultimate "pointy shouty bloke" phase, were first XI players for much of the season. Even the back-up consisted of David Bentley, Roman Pavyluchenko and Alan Hutton.

Even looking at the likes of Jermain Defoe, Heurelho Gomes, Niko Kranjcar and Tom Huddlestone, some of our better first team players that season, were they really any better than what we have now?


...but, we massively overachieved and finished in the top 4, ahead of two teams that nobody saw us finishing ahead of, with a points total in the 70's for the first time in the Premier League era that nobody saw us reaching. How? I would say that it was massively down to the factor that makes that season unique amongst our last 8 seasons - no European games to deal with.

Just for further comparison - the last time before the 09/10 season that we didn't play in Europe was the 05/06 season. That season we were using players like Grzegorz Rasiak, Anthony Gardner, Calum Davenport, Andy Reid, Stephen Kelly, Johnnie Jackson, Michael Brown, Lee Barnard and Wayne Routledge in our Premier League campaign. Yet we still only missed out on a Champions League spot on the final day of the season because of a dodgy lasagne. Why? Because we went out of both cups in the first round and could concentrate on the league. Not sure how much more evidence that some of you need.

A very convincing post mate!

In addition to us you can also look at Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Swansea and the reaction their league performance took to EL participation. IIRC Stoke had a similar response.

Not sure the answer is to just not give a **** about the tournament, but you highlight the scope of the challenge very well.

 

[Spursalot]

​

Our form from PL games after EL matches.

P9 W3 D1 L5 F5 A13 Pts 10

17 points dropped. Granted the EL isn't entirely at blame especially when you consider such horror shows as West Ham and Liverpool at home but it isn't ideal and we've seen this too many times before.

Not directly at you, but an interesting conundrum.

If the aim is to get in the champions league, at the expense of all other competitions as some seem to desire. Come next year, when there is a champions league qualification spot in the Europa league, would people want us to sack off the top four and go full out for the Europa league win?

With the teams in the premier league, I can't help but think the Europa league might even be an easier way into the competition than the top four would be.

 

[braineclipse]

Not directly at you, but an interesting conundrum.

If the aim is to get in the champions league, at the expense of all other competitions as some seem to desire. Come next year, when there is a champions league qualification spot in the Europa league, would people want us to sack off the top four and go full out for the Europa league win?

With the teams in the premier league, I can't help but think the Europa league might even be an easier way into the competition than the top four would be.

We should be able to get through the group stages without "sacking off top four", meaning that a decision can be made in February/March on where to focus. In our current situation, with how far away top 4 looks right now I would have considered saying that we should focus on the EL had there been CL qualification for the winner.