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General Transfer Rumour Discussion Thread

Armchair Expert said:
I would be extremely disappointed if we sell Dembele. I'm always more confident and feel we have a greater solidity to us when he is in the side.

What will the potential transfer fee be? 8 million? 10 million? It certainly won't be a big fee thats going to fund any sort of overhaul. I was bemused last year that he wasn't a regular and it was one major gripe I had with Poch. When we played well Dembele was often outstanding, and seemed to drop out of the first 11 picture after the occasional bad performance in matches when he was certainly no worse than those around him.

Who are we going to bring in for similar money and wages that will make the upheaval/settling in period worth while? From about Christmas onwards last year I'd have been playing him instead of Mason, who faded almost to non-existence. No-one will convince me Mason is a better bet for a starting berth than Dembele.
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I know some are harsh on Dembele because of his delay d release of the ball. But his ball retention, his ability to beat a player, his pure strength....I'd seriously take the time to find his best position in Poch's system and play him there I think he has too much to offer to let go. I'm not qualified to know where that position is, he really impressed me further forward. But I'm hoping Poch is keen to utilise him wherever he deems fit...
 
Armchair Expert said:
I'd perosnally play Dembele as one of the deeper two midfielders; i.e next to Bentaleb. I think he is solid in the tackle, positions himself well and shields the ball superbly. I know that distribution isn't his strong point, but i still feel we have more steel and sturdiness in the side when he is in the heart of midfield. That he has that versatility to play in a variety of positions makes him even more valuable to the team.

EDIT: rather than 'would play' i should've written 'would have played'. Last season Mason needed dropping badly, and we had a player ready to come in who was superior and should have been starting anyway.
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I'm a fan of birth players and they both bring something different to the side

I May sound like a broken Record but Dembele looks best playing the hold up role in attack (I know that's contradictory). We looked our best when we played what was effectively 4-3-3 with him and Mason in front of Bentelab
 
billyiddo said:
I remember reading what GB is saying about Clyne - apparently part of Mitchells role was to analyse not just potential signings but also players currently at the club all the way through to the youth teams
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Yeah but I'd say it was simply a case of £12m for a bit part player... Bite their hand off
 
I wonder if he could be used as a hold up type forward - get the ball to him early and He can keep hold of the ball till his team mates are up,with him
 
harr1984 said:
I know some are harsh on Dembele because of his delay d release of the ball. But his ball retention, his ability to beat a player, his pure strength....I'd seriously take the time to find his best position in Poch's system and play him there I think he has too much to offer to let go. I'm not qualified to know where that position is, he really impressed me further forward. But I'm hoping Poch is keen to utilise him wherever he deems fit...
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I completely agree. I also think he is too talented and powerful - as you mention - to simply be let go.
 
Dembele is a good player but I just think he will leave if we get a good enough bid in for him, pity really because he has the ability and imo should be in front of Mason as a starter.
 
The conversation here around Dembele is interesting. Different people with a range of ideas on where he should be deployed. Personally, I think due to his power, shielding of the ball and excellent positioning, his future lies deeper. We would need a capable passer next to him to facilitate that though possibly.

I think this discussion highlights his obvious versatility, and imo shows his value to the squad. I think we are definitely better served having Dembele around than having an extra 7 or 8 million in the coffers.
 
Rorschach said:
A noble sentiment but not striving to improve by whatever means possible, youth or transfers, is effectively going backwards in this league. Unless we mount some semblance of a challenge on the the top four this season our top players will want out. If the club show no ambition then they will be gone, plain and simple. It is a long climb back to 5th from mid table and a player's career is short enough that they won't hang around.

The desire to bring through youth only makes sense if they are good enough, and thankfully it looks like we have a good batch coming through all together. If they are good enough then by all means play them but I wouldn't get over sentimental about it. We need to be competitive by whatever means possible.
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Pirate55 said:
I very much doubt you will be saying this if we are mid table mediocrity come January. And some believe that there is rarely any quality available in January ( except as a desperate measure at hugely inflated prices!)
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What I meant was, I would sooner give 5 youth players a go in the team rather than signing 7 players for 100m and 5 of them flop.

Unless we get premier league proven players, I would rather us have our youngsters in the team than buy a youngster from abroad that has the same chances of not being good enough.
 
The problem for me playing him deeper is the passing issue - i just don't think it suits how the manager wants us to play. It wouldn't be an issue if we had someone like Carrick next to him, similar to when Jenas/Davids were next to him under Jol, give him the ball and he can pick out players further forward, quickly advancing out attacking positional play - but Bentaleb isn't a playmaker who sprays the ball around he's a quick short passer (as far as i can tell) and i think that's the type of player we need next to him for the team to work
 
DublinSpur said:
Pritchard has played a total of 7 minutes of football above Championship level in his entire career. You're not seriously comparing him with Dembele on those terms, are you?

I get you're a fan of Pritchard (I didn't watch Brentford last season so I don't have an opinion one way or the other). But dismissing Dembele because he didn't start many games last season, while at the same time championing a guy who has never started a single one in his life (at the level we're talking about) is odd.

For the record though; Dembele played 1841 minutes last season. That's more than 20 full games across all competitions. It's also a fair bit more than Paulinho (1387 minutes / 15+ matches) or Capoue (1282 minutes / 14+ matches) or Stambouli (1440 minutes / 16 matches). We've lost those three from midfield already this summer (assuming the stories about Stambouli are true). Plus we also need to make up for Lennon's 587 minutes* (6+ matches) and the 3 matches that Sandro and Holtby played early in the season.

Just because none of those players finished the season in the first team doesn't mean the time they did spend on the pitch can be conveniently ignored. So between Paulinho, Capoue, Stambouli, Sandro, Lennon and Holtby, we're losing guys that played 56 full matches between them.

I am mystified by anyone who can confidently state that two youngsters (Pritchard and Alli) - both of whom are untried at premier league level (let alone "challenging for top four" level) - are absolutely ready to handle 56 matches in a season between them, at the quality we need them to be. On top of that, you seem positively eager to lose Dembele also; leaving Pritchard and Alli having to bear the weight of 76 full matches between them.

I'm all for giving the youth a chance. It's working for us. But what you're suggesting is just reckless. It'll only take one of either Alli or Pritchard to fail to handle the pressure (or for Mason's level to drop) and we can pretty much say goodbye to the entire season. It's one thing to give the youth a chance; it's another thing to send them out there with no experienced leadership and little backup... and demand they succeed under the brightest spotlight in world sport.

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* I'm including Lennon in this because there's a lot of folks seem to think Pritchard would spend some time at least on the right wing if he were to be part of the first team.
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I watched a lot of Pritchard last season, the advantages of family from Brentford and season ticket holders. No doubt the guy has something about him and will become a good player, but he does go missing a bit in games currently and struggles for now when someone is a bit rough with him. I have no doubt he will work out how to handle it, but, he is not ready to be thrown into the first team in my opinion but would be a very good impact sub until he finds his feet. He is certainly not ready to replace Dembele as yet and has none of the hold up ability of our Belgian. It would do the lad wonders not to add pressure on him, make sure he gets game time to ease him in but not throw him in the deep end.

I worry with a lot about gutter's posts to be honest, he goes on about youth guys like they are about to become the next Messi which would be lovely but there is no experience in those players, we need 1 or 2 experienced heads around the team to continue their development, and I also don't think Mason/Bentaleb as a midfield partnership CURRENTLY are good enough to push us on. They may well be in the future, I don't think skill is the issues its the experience and knowledge to see out games, to ease pressure which you struggle to learn as a kid. I think if we are pinning our hopes on Alli being the guy to do it, we are again perhaps a season or 2 ahead of ourselves. I agree with the comparisons to Viera but it is yet to be seen if he will hit those heights, he isn't a pure DM and he certainly is not an AM - his strength like Veira is more B2B midfield destroyer with a knack for timing his runs into the box, not being tied to down to screening the defence but being able to be fluid and quickly identifying potential dangers.
 
billyiddo said:
I remember reading what GB is saying about Clyne - apparently part of Mitchells role was to analyse not just potential signings but also players currently at the club all the way through to the youth teams
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I remember reading the same
 
I think that part of the reason we all have differing views on how best to use Dembele is because he is missing certain facets from his game that would make him a specialist in any one area. He's strong and can hold the ball up well, but he doesn't spot his passing options and doesn't like to shoot. He really is a jack of all trades that you could place anywhere across the midfield (even on a wing imo) and get a reasonable performance from.
 
No matter how much research and data you have, you will never be able to predict how a player is going to settle and perform in the team.

In other words. . . Its all a load of gonads.
 
If I'll be honest, I would like to have these three players(4), then we would look really strong for the season.

Mohamed Salah. 15m£
Xherdan Shaqiri. ??m£
Fernando Llorente. 10m£
(Ricardo Kishna) ??m (prospect)
 
Gutter Boy said:
Remember though, this is where Mitchell's expertise is supposed to lie.

He told Soton to sell Chamberlain, because his data predicted Clyne would perform better the next season anyway. Perhaps its telling him the same about Pritchard and Alli?
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Any quotes on him telling them to sell Chambers? Never heard that before.
 
Yiddo said:
No matter how much research and data you have, you will never be able to predict how a player is going to settle and perform in the team.

In other words. . . Its all a load of cobblers.
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Yes you can - algorithms. That's what they do - use big data to predict future trends
 
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