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Fair play Daniel Levy

braineclipse said:
Didn't work all that well with Campbell... I'm quite sure you would have been rather critical of Levy had we ended up in another situation like that.

Liverpool didn't get a bid higher than £40m, and that was from a PL club. Had Real gone all out for Suarez I'm not so sure they would have been able to keep him.
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It didn't, and your right I would be critical. But that's why Levy is paid the money he is paid. At the time we let Campbell go we were ****. We would have needed to add GHod knows how many top quality players to even challenge anywhere near top 4.

At the time we sold Modric, Bale and to a lesser extent Berbatov we were within arms reach of regular CL qualification.

Do you not think it might have been worth the risk then?

With regard to Suarez, you are probably right. But would Liverpool be sitting top at Christmas had they sold him no matter what fee they got and who they brought in?
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
It didn't, and your right I would be critical. But that's why Levy is paid the money he is paid. At the time we let Campbell go we were ****. We would have needed to add GHod knows how many top quality players to even challenge anywhere near top 4.

At the time we sold Modric, Bale and to a lesser extent Berbatov we were within arms reach of regular CL qualification.

Do you not think it might have been worth the risk then?

With regard to Suarez, you are probably right. But would Liverpool be sitting top at Christmas had they sold him no matter what fee they got and who they brought in?
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We have been fairly consistently performing slightly above what can be expected of us based on our turnover compared to the other clubs in the league. Seems to me that Levy is making quite a few correct calls.

It might have been worth the risk. And it might not have been. It's impossible to know seeing as it's a completely hypothetical situation you're trying to compare to what actually happened.

Would Liverpool have been sitting top had they turned down a world record bid for Suarez and thus massively ****ed him off?
 
Don't forget Suarez was suspended for the first few games as well. That's enough for any potential suitor to put a bid on ice until the next window.

Hell be gone in a few weeks. Bookmark it.
 
Superted said:
Don't forget Suarez was suspended for the first few games as well. That's enough for any potential suitor to put a bid on ice until the next window.

Hell be gone in a few weeks. Bookmark it.
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Personally the only place I think he will go to is Madrid. Don't think it will be in Jan though
 
braineclipse said:
We have been fairly consistently performing slightly above what can be expected of us based on our turnover compared to the other clubs in the league. Seems to me that Levy is making quite a few correct calls.

It might have been worth the risk. And it might not have been. It's impossible to know seeing as it's a completely hypothetical situation you're trying to compare to what actually happened.

Would Liverpool have been sitting top had they turned down a world record bid for Suarez and thus massively ****ed him off?
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He has indeed made plenty of good calls and I'm certainly not anti-Levy although it may seem that way. My only point is that consistently selling your best players is not how a club moves forward.

I am indeed comparing a hypothetical situation to one that actually happened. But that's no different than someone comparing how we would be doing now had we not sacked AVB to how we're doing with Tim. Surely theatre a lot of discussions on this board are based around hypothetical situations?

I take your points in good stead, but IMO the only way we will truly move forward and break into the top 4/title challengers is if we put a marker down and stop selling our best players.

With regard to Suarez, since he seemed pretty ****ed of that they didn't sell him this summer passed anyway, my gut feeling is that he'd still be playing the same way had they turned down a massive bid. But as you say, who knows.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
He has indeed made plenty of good calls and I'm certainly not anti-Levy although it may seem that way. My only point is that consistently selling your best players is not how a club moves forward.

I am indeed comparing a hypothetical situation to one that actually happened. But that's no different than someone comparing how we would be doing now had we not sacked AVB to how we're doing with Tim. Surely theatre a lot of discussions on this board are based around hypothetical situations?

I take your points in good stead, but IMO the only way we will truly move forward and break into the top 4/title challengers is if we put a marker down and stop selling our best players.

With regard to Suarez, since he seemed pretty ****ed of that they didn't sell him this summer passed anyway, my gut feeling is that he'd still be playing the same way had they turned down a massive bid. But as you say, who knows.
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Surely accepting that you're comparing a hypothetical situation to reality you should accept that you can't say that one choice would have been better than the other? At most you can say that it might have been or that it would have been likely to have been?

You yourself said that we've moved closer to where we want to be after selling Carrick and Berbatov. I don't know how quickly you expected us to improve had Levy done what you wanted him to do, but the progress has been there. Despite the obvious blips.

To me the only way we can compete with clubs with significantly bigger budgets is if we keep making better than average deals in the transfer market. That to me will most of the time include not letting player's contracts run down. Look at Arsenal for comparison. They were forced to sell players like Nasri and RvP for a lot less than they would otherwise have gotten for them because of their contract situations. And CL wasn't enough to make them stay/sign new contracts. They've stepped it up this season, but not as a result of "putting down a marker" in the transfer market, more because of not having anyone left that were pushing for a move at this point.
 
braineclipse said:
Surely accepting that you're comparing a hypothetical situation to reality you should accept that you can't say that one choice would have been better than the other? At most you can say that it might have been or that it would have been likely to have been?

You yourself said that we've moved closer to where we want to be after selling Carrick and Berbatov. I don't know how quickly you expected us to improve had Levy done what you wanted him to do, but the progress has been there. Despite the obvious blips.

To me the only way we can compete with clubs with significantly bigger budgets is if we keep making better than average deals in the transfer market. That to me will most of the time include not letting player's contracts run down. Look at Arsenal for comparison. They were forced to sell players like Nasri and RvP for a lot less than they would otherwise have gotten for them because of their contract situations. And CL wasn't enough to make them stay/sign new contracts. They've stepped it up this season, but not as a result of "putting down a marker" in the transfer market, more because of not having anyone left that were pushing for a move at this point.
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I accept I have no way of knowing the better option. This is just my opinion.

Yes we were closer after selling Berbatov and Carrick, but we may well have been there by now had we not.

Are we really making better than average deals in the market? Out of Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, VDV and Bale we've only really replaced one with a cheaper player of the same or better calibre (Carrick with Sandro and even that wasn't immediate)

Appreciate that it's a little early to tell with the new crop, but we are still missing a Modric type midfielder, anyone with anywhere near the ability of Berbatov, potentially Eriksen or Lamela may reach the heights of VDV but its early days.

Holtby is nothing special, Chadli doesn't look it either. Capoue has looked good in CM, but we have Sandro and Chiriches has either looked fantastic our terrible. If none of these players performances improve in the next few months, then the deals certainly haven't been better than average IMO.
 
And just to add to that, how can we ever build on anything if every time we pick up a bargain in the transfer market who turns out to be class, we sell him on to Madrid or United, then start again with another unknown bargain. We need to build a team by adding to the gems we pick up in the market, not selling them on and starting all over again.
 
Nice theories, but in real life the player/agent will force the move.

The only reason Suarez stayed at Pool is because only one club was willing to bid, and not stupid money either. If anyone really thinks had Madrid bid even 65M for Suarez, that he would still be at Pool, they are completely naïve.

Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, Bale left, because the buying club really wanted them, made multiple top tier bids and forced the move.
 
Millsy_Yiddo said:
He has indeed made plenty of good calls and I'm certainly not anti-Levy although it may seem that way. My only point is that consistently selling your best players is not how a club moves forward.

I am indeed comparing a hypothetical situation to one that actually happened. But that's no different than someone comparing how we would be doing now had we not sacked AVB to how we're doing with Tim. Surely theatre a lot of discussions on this board are based around hypothetical situations?

I take your points in good stead, but IMO the only way we will truly move forward and break into the top 4/title challengers is if we put a marker down and stop selling our best players.

With regard to Suarez, since he seemed pretty ****ed of that they didn't sell him this summer passed anyway, my gut feeling is that he'd still be playing the same way had they turned down a massive bid. But as you say, who knows.
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I think you have some great points, but want to add a few other perspectives…

We can really look at the managers here too. Failing to make the CL in Modric's final year cost us

1) a shot at keeping him, and a decent one at that
2) being able to secure the sort of player that elevates you those final few places
3) possibly getting the stadium on track faster
4) giving Bale even less reason to succumb to the filthy pressure of Madrid


It is why when I look back at that Villa game, yes that one, it breaks my heart. I knew, I ****ing KNEW, that NOT getting 3rd that season was going to cost us. That AVB nearly puled a rabbit from the hat last season was actually (in hindsight) pure ****ing torture! That he got ****ed over by Levy et al on purchases is undeniable. That we ALL (him, us, levy) got ****ed over by Barnett, Bale and Madrid is absolutely crystal clear. That AVB coped such a massive, insurmountable strop is also clear and to an extent understandable. I wish he hadn't. I wish he'd developed some short term strategies to remain 'onside' with the board et al so as he could still be here.

I think it is absolutely fair to say that if Gareth Bale was still here, we would be pushing for the top, if not at the top. He was that important to us.
 
Raziel said:
Nice theories, but in real life the player/agent will force the move.

The only reason Suarez stayed at Pool is because only one club was willing to bid, and not stupid money either. If anyone really thinks had Madrid bid even 65M for Suarez, that he would still be at Pool, they are completely naïve.

Carrick, Berbatov, Modric, Bale left, because the buying club really wanted them, made multiple top tier bids and forced the move.
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If Madrid had bid that amount for him, then yes, he probably would have been gone. I suppose part of what is driving this is my frustration that Football has gone this way. Contracts mean absolutely nothing anymore. But that is partly because clubs have allowed it to happen. We are perfectly within our rights (providing there's no special clauses in a contract) to force a player to stay at our club. Suarez and Rooney have both shown this season that it has little impact on how they play.

IMO we will never get to where we want to be if we continue to pick up Bargains in the market, allow them to develop into world class players, sell them on then start all over again. Doing this means we always have gaps in quality or experience in certain areas of the team.
 
Both can be true. Levy can state the club is not up for sale in the sense of looking for buyers and that he has no intention of selling. At the same time the shares in the company can be bought and sold and the company has to act in the best interests of shareholders. So for a suitably high offer they should sell even if they don't want to.

You could be happy where you are living and have no intention of selling your house, but what would you do if offered 2-3 times the value?
 
Just reading that THST open letter and noticed this:

As yet, the Club have not successfully secured a naming rights deal, which is absolutely fundamental to financing the stadium, although we do understand that the Club hosted several potential sponsors at the recent Liverpool home match on 15th December.
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D'oh! I bet that went well!
 
Hootnow said:
Do people honestly think we're the only club that doesn't have to sell its best players? Can you tell me of any club in the world bar Real and maybe Barcelona who didn't have to sell a player they didn't want to in the past 10-15 years?

And that Levy is the only chairman to fire managers a lot. Now that the outliers of Ferguson and Moyes are gone, there is but one outlier left in this league, Wenger. After that, the longest serving manager is Pardew. Pardew. At Saudi Sportswashing Machine. With Ashley. Let that sink in for a second.
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OMG!
 
Rorschach said:
Could be looking at the real reason AVB got canned there. Made the club look bad at a crucial time.
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I was just thinking the same thing. Whilst I still stand by my point that the margin of a loss is almost certainly irrelevant, in that scenario it's very relevant.
 
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