Eric Dier

[Bedfordspurs]

We made almost as many attacking errors against Saudi Sportswashing Machine as we did against United.

Joy isn’t the word I would use.

Well I accept their human and therefore fallable

It’s why I don’t like VAR for anything that’s a judgement call as humans make errors and VAR hasn’t shown much that changed on that front

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think that’s because certain players like Kane and Eriksen have more credit in the bank. So people go easier on them when they make a mistake or miss a chance. You have players like Trippier and Sissoko at the other end of the scale who people are harsher on, because they haven’t contributed as much to the team in a positive sense. That’s just the way it works. Dier falls somewhere in the middle. He’s neither as crap as Trippier nor is he anywhere near as good as Kane.

Yet you can argue that eriksen and Kane need a player like Dier or sissoko to thrive and get that credit in the bank

 

[scaramanga]

I’ll take my view rather than someone who doesn’t attend many games live. There’s only so much you can glean from watching on tv.

Joe Cole's seen a lot of football, do you listen to his opinion? What about Carragher?

Watching football does not increase a person's intellectual capacity.

Again, what proportion of scouting a player or team do you think happens live?

 

[scaramanga]

Again you say this but can you name the games he does this ? He does a few good forward passes and he is controlling games? Carrick controlled games he dictated our entire team as did Modric. As did Hoddle. Dier does not.

He did it in every match he played alongside Dembele, he also is showing signs of doing so with Winks.

 

[Robspur12]

He did it in every match he played alongside Dembele, he also is showing signs of doing so with Winks.

A few forward passes isn't dictating the game. Dembele was dictating our game in that partnership. I also think Toby is a more progressive passer from the back than Dier.

For me Dier is an excellent Right back and a decent centre half in a three. I think we only play him in midfield because it is an area we haven't managed to fill adequately. I think Winks is best midfielder in the double pivot. He does dictates play.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Joe Cole's seen a lot of football, do you listen to his opinion? What about Carragher?

Watching football does not increase a person's intellectual capacity.

Again, what proportion of scouting a player or team do you think happens live?

Joe Cole and Carragher have won everything there is to win at club level between them so I’d say they know more about the game than me and you. Just because they may not be the most articulate characters doesn’t mean they don’t know the game.

Not sure what kind of answer you are expecting re scouts? Clubs would do their due diligence before signing a player, i hazard a guess that would include looking at stats/analysis, looking at how they cope against different kinds of opposition and watching them play live so they can get a close up view of their work rate, off the ball runs, body language etc that cameras wouldn’t necessarily highlight.

 

[Baleforce]

They might know more about the game than you two, but not because they’ve played in side that have won certain pots.

Sporting success isn’t depending on understanding, Sebastian Vettel has won 4 world championships, but every single time he’s had even a sniff of competition he’s miscalculated and been beaten, Eli Manning has won two Super Bowl rings yet can’t spell his own firstname.

 

[scaramanga]

Joe Cole and Carragher have won everything there is to win at club level between them so I’d say they know more about the game than me and you. Just because they may not be the most articulate characters doesn’t mean they don’t know the game.

They're not intelligent to understand the game is my point.

They've seen countless matches and could see a million more but will never have the underlying intellectual capacity to properly understand football.

Their success is a result of them having been genetically predisposed to kicking and chasing a football at a higher level than most.

Not sure what kind of answer you are expecting re scouts? Clubs would do their due diligence before signing a player, i hazard a guess that would include looking at stats/analysis, looking at how they cope against different kinds of opposition and watching them play live so they can get a close up view of their work rate, off the ball runs, body language etc that cameras wouldn’t necessarily highlight.

The answer is hundreds of hours. The amount of footage and data collected on a player or team and analysed is somewhere between 95% and 100% of the scouting.

Then they go and watch a match or two - much of the importance of which is being in the same physical place as the player, his agent, his current owners, etc.

So I'm fairly confident that if multi-million £ football teams can make multi-million £ judgements via footage and statistics, with the odd live match thrown in here and there, then I can base my opinions on the same.

 

[scaramanga]

A few forward passes isn't dictating the game. Dembele was dictating our game in that partnership. I also think Toby is a more progressive passer from the back than Dier.

For me Dier is an excellent Right back and a decent centre half in a three. I think we only play him in midfield because it is an area we haven't managed to fill adequately. I think Winks is best midfielder in the double pivot. He does dictates play.

Why do the passes have to be forwards? If the better option is sideways or backwards then a player controlling the game would do that.

 

[Jurgen the German]

They're not intelligent to understand the game is my point.

They've seen countless matches and could see a million more but will never have the underlying intellectual capacity to properly understand football.

Their success is a result of them having been genetically predisposed to kicking and chasing a football at a higher level than most.


The answer is hundreds of hours. The amount of footage and data collected on a player or team and analysed is somewhere between 95% and 400% of the scouting.

Then they go and watch a match or two - much of the importance of which is being in the same physical place as the player, his agent, his current owners, etc.

So I'm fairly confident that if multi-million £ football teams can make multi-million £ judgements via footage and statistics, with the odd live match thrown in here and there, then I can base my opinions on the same.

Their intelligence isn’t important. Football and intelligence don’t necessarily have to go hand in hand in order for someone to be successful in the game. No offence, but have you ever heard Dier speak? He’s hardly a mental giant himself. But that has no relevance to his ability to play football and understand the game.

 

[Jurgen the German]

They're not intelligent to understand the game is my point.

They've seen countless matches and could see a million more but will never have the underlying intellectual capacity to properly understand football.

Their success is a result of them having been genetically predisposed to kicking and chasing a football at a higher level than most.


The answer is hundreds of hours. The amount of footage and data collected on a player or team and analysed is somewhere between 95% and 400% of the scouting.

Then they go and watch a match or two - much of the importance of which is being in the same physical place as the player, his agent, his current owners, etc.

So I'm fairly confident that if multi-million £ football teams can make multi-million £ judgements via footage and statistics, with the odd live match thrown in here and there, then I can base my opinions on the same.

But they would still attend matches live is the point. They wouldn’t bother going to games if it had no merit.

 

[scaramanga]

But they would still attend matches live is the point. They wouldn’t bother going to games if it had no merit.

They do - for about 2% of the time they spend looking at football. I spend more than that at live matches. If it's good enough for decisions of that magnitude then I think it's ok for me.

 

[scaramanga]

Their intelligence isn’t important. Football and intelligence don’t necessarily have to go hand in hand in order for someone to be successful in the game. No offence, but have you ever heard Dier speak? He’s hardly a mental giant himself. But that has no relevance to his ability to play football and understand the game.

I'm absolutely not claiming Dier is intelligent enough to fully understand football at a high level, I'm saying I am.

My point (clearly missed) is that the quantity of matches seen live and one's understanding of football are not related. Some people have a cap on their ability to understand complex theory.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Their intelligence isn’t important. Football and intelligence don’t necessarily have to go hand in hand in order for someone to be successful in the game. No offence, but have you ever heard Dier speak? He’s hardly a mental giant himself. But that has no relevance to his ability to play football and understand the game.

Strange you should say that as Dier is known to be one of the more intelligent players in the game

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...d-defender-the-new-face-of-football-nl0zhp5lr

 

[Jurgen the German]

I'm absolutely not claiming Dier is intelligent enough to fully understand football at a high level, I'm saying I am.

My point (clearly missed) is that the quantity of matches seen live and one's understanding of football are not related. Some people have a cap on their ability to understand complex theory.

Should be a matter of time before I see you on Sky alongside Alex Scott

 

[scaramanga]

Should be a matter of time before I see you on Sky alongside Alex Scott

I doubt it. TV football pundits are a varied bunch, but they're somewhat singular in their complete lack of depth of understanding.

 

[90291Spur]

I doubt it. TV football pundits are a varied bunch, but they're somewhat singular in their complete lack of depth of understanding.

So we'll be seeing you on the telly soon then hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

 

[thfcsteff]

I’ll reiterate what I said previously, maybe if you attended games you would see what he offers rather than just going be what you see on tv. That’s why scouts and managers attend games in person so they can get a close up look at a player before signing him or so they can gain an understanding of how a team plays.

There’s nothing in Dier’s play that backs up your inflated opinion of him as this Beckenbauer esque, ball playing CM that you and Bedford believe he is.

We wouldn’t be bringing through the likes of an 18 year old Skipp and Winks from the academy to play in Dier’s position if the likes of Dier and Sissoko were top drawer.

Errr...if we want to compete at all competitions, we need a squad of commensurate quality. More to the point, why do you think Poch hasn’t spunked a load of cash on anyone? Because he rates Dier, Winks and Sissoko and further believes Skipp will progress too (I think he is right). Plus, had Amos not been hurt you’d definitely have seen him too.

Frankly, questioning whether Dier is top-drawer is silly IMO. The proof is there.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

He did play, just not as often in his preferred position at CM due to Wanyama and Dembele’s form at said position.

Yeah, and where are those two now? Sorry, what IS your point? Frankly I get tired of Dier knockers. He hides less than most and is a victim of his own footballing versatility. We are very lucky to have him.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

Their intelligence isn’t important. Football and intelligence don’t necessarily have to go hand in hand in order for someone to be successful in the game. No offence, but have you ever heard Dier speak? He’s hardly a mental giant himself. But that has no relevance to his ability to play football and understand the game.

What????? You’re judging Dier’s intelligence on how he speaks? Oh dear oh dear oh dear. How foolish of you!
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...d-defender-the-new-face-of-football-nl0zhp5lr