Robspur12
Nick Barmby
That may well be true Steff but that could be because of a combination of fitness and contractual issues rather than Dier being a better player or more critical to the Poch team than any of the other three.
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Eric Dier
- Thread starter Jordinho
- Start date
glorygloryeze
Tom Huddlestone
It's is fair to wonder...
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Dier continues to make giveaways that are so bad they make me fear for the treatment Sissoko would receive if he actually did similar...but the point Steff is making is that Dier doesn't hide. He will make mistakes and get right back on it.
I think with Poch, its an attitude thing. It's having influential players that keep everyone's standards up. Because mistakes always happen in the chaos of a game, but its how you choose to come back from them that determines how successful you will be. Dier ALWAYS comes back from them. He never hides and more often than not he wins his battles. He isn't the most talented on the ball and yet can find players with his range of passing. But it's more an attitude thing, as well as a versatility thing.
Remember...Poch dropped him after Euro 2016. He came back from that tournament and he wasn't the same Dier, in terms of being the influence around the squad that he needed to be. In terms of the focus on improvement that he needed to demonstrate. Once he got that back, he was back in the side. I think he is so important to our culture. And when we talk about Poch tactics, no doubt he prepares the team well, but I think our success is on just as much of winning the individual battles. So if he thinks players are 'on it', he'll get them in. He was willing to play a Dier/Wanyama central midfield at the end of 16/17 because they were 'on it' (aside from the West Ham away game), and it's less about how one or either can be a penetrative passer from midfield and more that they were relentless in their application and making sure everyone else was too.
That is why Dier is so key for Poch.
I think with Poch, its an attitude thing. It's having influential players that keep everyone's standards up. Because mistakes always happen in the chaos of a game, but its how you choose to come back from them that determines how successful you will be. Dier ALWAYS comes back from them. He never hides and more often than not he wins his battles. He isn't the most talented on the ball and yet can find players with his range of passing. But it's more an attitude thing, as well as a versatility thing.
Remember...Poch dropped him after Euro 2016. He came back from that tournament and he wasn't the same Dier, in terms of being the influence around the squad that he needed to be. In terms of the focus on improvement that he needed to demonstrate. Once he got that back, he was back in the side. I think he is so important to our culture. And when we talk about Poch tactics, no doubt he prepares the team well, but I think our success is on just as much of winning the individual battles. So if he thinks players are 'on it', he'll get them in. He was willing to play a Dier/Wanyama central midfield at the end of 16/17 because they were 'on it' (aside from the West Ham away game), and it's less about how one or either can be a penetrative passer from midfield and more that they were relentless in their application and making sure everyone else was too.
That is why Dier is so key for Poch.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I think Poch wanted to bring Sanchez through more slowly and prime him for this season. Clearly he was bought for his youth and potential. I think the writing was in the wall with Toby for some time. I also think he looked and saw two 29/30 year old CBs and played the margins.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
That is fair enough actually. Now that I think about it, Poch did then do stuff like play Dier in the back 3 away at Utd (Sanchez on the bench). This season, with Toby available, we've seen Sanchez rotated more too. Infact, the more I think about it, the more I think Poch wants Dier to evolve into a Toby/Vert replacement.
I'm more than happy for players to make a qunt out of me when I criticise them, I hope Dier does as well. I don't think he is one of those players who is beyond criticism though (I think I said in an earlier post, only Kane and Eriksen are -- imo -- so good for us that I tend to just give them a pass when they go out of form).
Think he is seen as a Toby replacement, at least in the sense that he's able to play long passes from deep, similar to him
DeanoAustin
Rafael Van Der Vaart
If the longer term plan is to have Dier and Sanchez as the central defensive partnership, that works for me. Both are very good players who still have a bit of improvement in them.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Can see Sanchez getting better over time but Dier still has some way to go before becoming a reliable CB, he's rarely if ever played well in that position. He's far too susceptible to mistakes which can prove more costly in the last line of defence.
Bit like Harry saying Bale should go back to being a LB.
I think far too many people are forgetting this:
Ade's folks are ok really
Ramon Vega
Including Dier himself??
DeanoAustin
Rafael Van Der Vaart
He does make the odd mistake to be fair but I’m hoping that if he gets settled at centre back, he can work those out of his game. He has been shunted around a bit (right back, midfield, centre back) and is young so I’d give him the benefit of the doubt. I also think the experience of playing in midfield would help him at centre back in Poch’s system.
The other thing I like about Dier is his attitude. Proper captain in the making for me. I can see why Poch thinks he can be one of the best in the league and with an experienced Sanchez beside him, I think they could be a great pairing with a hopefully developing Foyth behind them.
My fear is that Dier just wants to play midfield and is willing to go elsewhere if we don’t play him there.
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Fair enough Rob, you are right, opinions are ours to have for sure. I think the one thing you said that I have to say is flat-out wrong is that Dier hides. You might not rate him, but he does not hide mate.
Anyway, agreed on the theory of disagreement mate. COYS
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
Not looking to make a qunt mate, to be fair this is simply a spirited debate and I think Robspur made some very fair comments with regards to my contributions (which have bordered on qunty!)...all good, we all want the same...COYS
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
thfcsteff
Garth Crooks
I think Dier has certainly paid a price for his versatility.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Dier doesn't forget. Dier just plots his revenge.
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
No worries Sir, even when we disagree your posts are an enjoyable and generally very fair read.
mjc23
Terry Fenwick
This is beautiful. Gave me some pleasure to what was a very sad evening.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
The way I see it Dier is much more of a natural DM than he ever will be a CB.
IMO his greatest strength is his ability to sense danger and make a timely interception or tackle, a skill best deployed in front of the defence. When playing well he's brilliant at breaking up attacks and setting one of our own going. That skill is more of an advantage at DM where he has the freedom to go hunting down attacks and break-up them up. At CB he must stay more disciplined in keeping his position which to my mind is not his strongest suit.
True, his passing can be a little off at times but he's also capable of quality long balls as he showed in the (edited) 2-1 win at Brighton. In that match he made 89 successful passes out of a total of 95 and it was he who launched the brilliant attacking move that was rounded off by Lamela's superb goal.
Also not convinced Dier is as good at dealing with the sort of aerial crosses and balls over the top that CDs more frequently have to face. They are the last line of defence so they have to be rock solid. He sometimes has a tendency to get disorientated in those situations which can be more costly than further upfield.
Overall he does seem to be going through a mostly poor spell of form atm but I'm sure he'll come through it eventually and start to show us once again what a great natural DM he can be.
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