Eric Dier

[scaramanga]

Has poch not said that although dier thinks his best position is dm poch disagrees and sees him as a CB?
So will poch gradually move him back into the back three to rotate/replace Toby or Jan?

Poch said he can see people's auras. I wouldn't read too much into what he says.

 

[scaramanga]

You are right, Dier is certainly no Pirlo. If you look at every player in our 'first team' and compare them to a 'Pirlo' standard player in their position then Dier is probably the further away from that ideal.

Yet if you compare all of our squad to Pirlo himself (which was the point), the midfielder least like him in style is Wanyama. Or use the current version of Modric if you prefer - anyone who is the pinnacle of a deep lying midfielder.

Edit:
I don't disagree that Wanyama is very, very good at what he does. I just think that gives little overall value to our team, especially when at the cost of someone more suited to possession football. When fit, a combination of Winks and Dier gives us everything we need.

 

[Kandi1977]

Much debate back and forth here, but I think we can all agree that Dier is currently nowhere near the form he showed a couple of seasons ago, when he absolutely bossed midfield. He was strong as an ox, bullied people off the ball, read the game perfectly, enabling him to intercept with ease, and he could pick a pass.
Now he seems to be constantly 2 yards from where he should be, gets knocked off the ball rather easily for such a big unit, and makes easy passing mistakes. The only thing left atm, is the occasional sublime long ball.
I want the former Dier back asap!
The criticism may seem harsh, but he set his own bar very high in the 16/17 season.

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

I think Wanyama enjoys defending and so is totally focused on that whilst Dier has more attacking ambitions. He used to sit in front of the back four but now there seems to be a hole there and he seems really lacking in mobility. Although Wanyama wasn't good on the ball on Saturday, you could see that the game was in front of him and he was plugging holes as needed. Not seen so much of that from Dier this season. Really pleased Wanyama is back and hopefully he can get his fitness together.

 

[Baleforce]

Much debate back and forth here, but I think we can all agree that Dier is currently nowhere near the form he showed a couple of seasons ago, when he absolutely bossed midfield. He was strong as an ox, bullied people off the ball, read the game perfectly, enabling him to intercept with ease, and he could pick a pass.
Now he seems to be constantly 2 yards from where he should be, gets knocked off the ball rather easily for such a big unit, and makes easy passing mistakes. The only thing left atm, is the occasional sublime long ball.
I want the former Dier back asap!
The criticism may seem harsh, but he set his own bar very high in the 16/17 season.

I think you could level that criticism at most of the players who have been regulars during that time, Lamela being the only obvious exception, his standards haven't dropped at all.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Much debate back and forth here, but I think we can all agree that Dier is currently nowhere near the form he showed a couple of seasons ago, when he absolutely bossed midfield. He was strong as an ox, bullied people off the ball, read the game perfectly, enabling him to intercept with ease, and he could pick a pass.
Now he seems to be constantly 2 yards from where he should be, gets knocked off the ball rather easily for such a big unit, and makes easy passing mistakes. The only thing left atm, is the occasional sublime long ball.
I want the former Dier back asap!
The criticism may seem harsh, but he set his own bar very high in the 16/17 season.

I think that other teams have realised that Dier's control isn't great and that he tends to need time on the ball, so we are seeing teams target him with their press to expose this. That is then leading to the mistakes that are very profitable for the opposition considering the fact that he is usually in possession in deep, central areas.

 

[Robspur12]

Much debate back and forth here, but I think we can all agree that Dier is currently nowhere near the form he showed a couple of seasons ago, when he absolutely bossed midfield. He was strong as an ox, bullied people off the ball, read the game perfectly, enabling him to intercept with ease, and he could pick a pass.
Now he seems to be constantly 2 yards from where he should be, gets knocked off the ball rather easily for such a big unit, and makes easy passing mistakes. The only thing left atm, is the occasional sublime long ball.
I want the former Dier back asap!
The criticism may seem harsh, but he set his own bar very high in the 16/17 season.

I don't think he has ever really "bossed it". That 16/17 season it was Dembele who bossed it with Dier being his able support. When Dembele didn't play we couldn't win and in the final 2 games with Dembele out we lost to Southampton and suffered that horrendous loss to Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Both of those games with Dier as DM.

He was moved to be a DM to cover a gap in the squad. I don't think it was meant to be permanent which is why we bought Wanyama.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I don't think he has ever really "bossed it". That 16/17 season it was Dembele who bossed it with Dier being his able support. When Dembele didn't play we couldn't win and in the final 2 games with Dembele out we lost to Southampton and suffered that horrendous loss to Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Both of those games with Dier as DM.

He was moved to be a DM to cover a gap in the squad. I don't think it was meant to be permanent which is why we bought Wanyama.

You're mixing 15/16 with 16/17; 15/16 was the time Dembele missed the last two games.

I think it should also be remembered that the last 4/5 games were with Wanyama and Dier as the 2 in front of the back four and we were very fluid, so combinations of all these CMs can show good results and midfield domination/gameplay.

I think Wanyama was simply bought for more depth

 

[parklane1]

Last season he spent half the time covering for a new CB and a promoted RB on the cover, not to mention compensating for no Wanyama. This season he is once again having to cover areas around and behind him. He has not been at his excellent best but has still been far better than you or several others here think IMO, especially when put into context.

Does not matter mate he is still crap ( or so they say).

 

[Robspur12]

You're mixing 15/16 with 16/17; 15/16 was the time Dembele missed the last two games.

I think it should also be remembered that the last 4/5 games were with Wanyama and Dier as the 2 in front of the back four and we were very fluid, so combinations of all these CMs can show good results and midfield domination/gameplay.

I think Wanyama was simply bought for more depth

Oh my bad, apologies. But wasn't Wanyama bought after that season and then subsequently replaced Dier in the first team? Looked to me like an upgrade on Dier.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Oh my bad, apologies. But wasn't Wanyama bought after that season and then subsequently replaced Dier in the first team? Looked to me like an upgrade on Dier.

Partly right; he was bought in summer 2016, but him and Dier started as the 2 in front of the defence whilst Dembele was suspended. Dier then got an injury in September and that was the beginning of him playing in multiple positions. The season started and ended with a Wanyama/Dier middle 2

I certainly feel Dier isn't untouchable, but he has shown good play in the past in cm. He seems to need a rest/kick up the backside..alas we know how the summer went

 

[the dza]

Partly right; he was bought in summer 2016, but him and Dier started as the 2 in front of the defence whilst Dembele was suspended. Dier then got an injury in September and that was the beginning of him playing in multiple positions. The season started and ended with a Wanyama/Dier middle 2

I certainly feel Dier isn't untouchable, but he has shown good play in the past in cm. He seems to need a rest/kick up the backside..alas we know how the summer went

I seem to remember that when Dier and Wanyama first lined up together, it didn't work well at all. Then I think they had a few games in the middle of the season and it worked well, then a few games near the end and it worked really well again. Almost as if Wanyama was taking on the Dembele role, but in a brute force fashion.

Injuries have really taken their toll on our centre midfielders.

 

[Bullet]

Injuries have really taken their toll on our centre midfielders.

This. Hopefully we'll have the luxury of actually picking and choosing the 2 or 3 of them we need for a situation, rather than defaulting to the "2 most fit".

 

[thfcsteff]

He's a defensive midfielder, his job is to cover the players around him. I hope he gets better because it will benefit the team. But if he doesn't and he has a mediocre season, then I hope it's a position where Poch and Levy will look for an upgrade.

I will tell you that Poch likes Dier more than anyone at the club in that position. If he’d been able to shift Dembele and Wanyama you’d have seen Dier finally get some consistent balance. I absolutely disagree with your read on him and the situation.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

He also makes poor decisions when under no pressure, goes missing when we are under the cosh and fails time and time again to properly defend set pieces. Do I think he can improve- definately. Do I like him and want him to succeed - for sure. However, I think he has been massively hyped and he hasn’t made either the Central Midfield or Centre back positions his own yet.

GOES MISSING??????? You’re having a laugh right? You want a player who has failed to properly defend set-pieces this season? Look no further than Toby. Has he been brilliant this season? Absolutely not! But some of the “whipping boy” stuff is ludicrous. And mate - “goes missing when we are under the cosh? That comment is (again) madness!!!!!!







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[harr1984]

GOES MISSING??????? You’re having a laugh right? You want a player who has failed to properly defend set-pieces this season? Look no further than Toby. Has he been brilliant this season? Absolutely not! But some of the “whipping boy” stuff is ludicrous. And mate - “goes missing when we are under the cosh? That comment is (again) madness!!!!!!







Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

He has become too slow in possession and consistent in playing sloppy passes for me. But regardless he always puts in the effort and never goes hiding, he has the right attitude for sure...

 

[thfcsteff]

If logic came into it, you'd acknowledge that we got our best points haul under Poch with a midfield 2 of Wanyama and Dembele infront of a back 3. Then you'd also have to acknowledge that Sanchez was bought the following summer to replace Dier in that back 3, but severe injuries to Toby and Wanyama put paid to that plan. Dier would have been a squad player but for that, and he has played accordingly ever since imo, with some very good games and some very poor ones, but mainly middle of the road. With Wanyama being poor since his return and nobody standing out in midfield, Dier is a starter and I don't disagree with that given our current options. Which is why I think those options will be improved upon in the summer transfer window, unless there is a dramatic turnaround in form for Dier and Wanyama.

Simply. Not. True.

Why do you think Poch talked Dier out of pushing the Man Utd opportunity? They tapped him up. His head was turned a bit. So why would Poch persuade a player he didn’t rate/was looking to replace to stay? At this point I am not especially bothered whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, but Alderweireld, Dembele and Wanyama were all on the block before Dier!







Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[the dza]

Simply. Not. True.

Why do you think Poch talked Dier out of pushing the Man Utd opportunity? They tapped him up. His head was turned a bit. So why would Poch persuade a player he didn’t rate/was looking to replace to stay? At this point I am not especially bothered whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, but Alderweireld, Dembele and Wanyama were all on the block before Dier!







Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

This summer, yes. But the summer after our 86 point season? Assuming Toby and Wanyama didn't get their injuries, who do you think Sanchez would have replaced in the first XI, because from the first XI that got 86 points, I think it would have been Dier.

 

[Robspur12]

GOES MISSING??????? You’re having a laugh right? You want a player who has failed to properly defend set-pieces this season? Look no further than Toby. Has he been brilliant this season? Absolutely not! But some of the “whipping boy” stuff is ludicrous. And mate - “goes missing when we are under the cosh? That comment is (again) madness!!!!!!

@thfcsteff, I get you like Dier, but my opinion is he is not good enough as either a centre back or defensive midfielder. A bit like you and others consistently calling out Dembele when he,in your opinion, does not reach the heights you expect of him. There is nothing unreasonable in the criticisms of him, it’s just that you don’t agree with them- fair enough.

That Toby has not yet performed to his previous level does not detract from Dier’s poor performances. None of our defenders are currently covering themselves in glory. However, Verts and Toby have shown themselves to be excellent centre backs and Sanchez a very able back up. Dier hasn’t proved himself as a centre back in the same way.

At set pieces, I have noticed that he gets bullied far too easily which is surprising for a big guy. If he is going to hold on to players then he needs to be stronger or alternatively rather than holding on go all out to win the ball in the air ahead of the bloke he is marking. In midfield when we are pressed high, he simply struggles to wrest back control for us, that’s what I meant by him going missing. We need our central midfielders to do that and a fit Wanyama, Dembele before this season and a fit Winks all play through the press better than him. He makes mistakes when under no pressure. I think he is the weakest of our centre midfield options and I am certain if all of them were fit he would not be in the starting 11.

But that is my opinion I am not asking you to agree with it. This is what a forum is for and I really dislike the ”whipping boy” narrative for honest criticisms of a player. It potentially shuts down debate even if that is not the intention. Let’s be honest criticisms of Dier do not hold anywhere near the same level of vitriol as those directed against the likes of Sissoko or Aurier.





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[greatwhitenorf]

Dier has me wondering where his head is. Some mind-boggling giveaways this season.