Gazza
Jimmy Neighbour
Sounds like ambition
-
Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara
ENIC
- Thread starter mattls
- Start date
ricky2tricky4city
Nayim
Sabotage behaviour - creates problems with daily behaviour that interferes with long standing goals.
You think ...That's the club doing that? Ok.
Muttley
Gudni Bergsson
Super post.
Cutting through every thing you have written I have always asked myself at any point in time whether the club are being run "optimally".
You can only play the cards you have been dealt and then it is up to you optimise them and make them work. What is strange is that right now the club is mostly optimised. We've spent 2 to 3 years removing all the surplus players from the squad and it is mostly now a lean and capable squad. We've progressed in all 3 cups to the later stages bringing in as much match day revenue as possible. Off the pitch, the club is in absolute great shape with revenue streams everywhere contributing to the focus on the 1st team.
There were so many times in the history that you wrote about where that wasn't the case. Even in ENIC's tenure the running of football operations has been so sub-optimal. I've looked at some of our squads over the years and wondered how we got into that mess in the first place. Major overhauls required, not so different to what we've recently gone through.
Right now, the sub-optimal part for me is squarely around whether the manager has the capabilities to optimise these amazing resources he's been given to work with. Easily fixable, unlike where we've found ourselves in other points in time.
DeanoAustin
Paul Walsh
Fine like between ambition and unrealistic expectation.
It’s also very easy to be “ambitious” when you’re not accountable for realising that ambition.
Bedfordspurs
Joe Kinnear
And ambition is always easier if certain conditions arise … we just need that pot of gold
This is what i was getting at in my post - in 15 seasons, 30 of the available 45 domestic trophies were 'won' by 2 state/oligarch backed clubs. That leaves 15 trophies on the table over 15 years - with a fair portion of that time being pre stadium revenue era, about 10 years? So that's 10 years of competing against a far richer group of Utd Liverpool & Arsenal for effectively one trophy a season. This isn't an ownership caused problem (outside of them not being an oligarch or nation state) - it's caused by the change in football landscape post Sky & CL TV money
Last edited:
Gazza
Jimmy Neighbour
I give up we have no hope do we lol
Grays_1890
Les Howe
Exactly this, we all run clubs and teams in our heads and all of them are successful but I have seen and given bad opinions on who we should sign etc and no one often goes back to say "I was wrong".
Bishop
Pedro Mendes
You're using money as an excuse. Wigan, Leicester, Portsmouth, Swansea, Birmingham have all won things some multiple since we lost won a trophy. Yes the financial landscape makes it difficult, but not impossible as evidenced both by winners outside of the consistent group and ourselves getting close multiple times, but as has been said by others and the examples I gave we are run sub optimally so we are unable to actually capitalize when the movement arrives.
Did we need more money to not sack Mourinho the week before the CC final? Did we need more money to reinvigorate Poch's squad or did we need refresh the squad intelligently by selling players at peak values and replacing them before they were completely broken? Why are we unable to do this yet it seems plenty teams across Europe in our similar context are? What is so special about our situation that we were completely incapable of selling high and buying low? I could go on and on.
My complaints are never about funding, they are about the actual leadership and if funding is your only solution it says that Levy isn't this world class football chairman that so many make him out to be, because essentially it's impossible for him to improve Spurs beyond par yet we have continuously expected our managers to do so and sacked them when they haven't. That isn't a money related issue it's a football culture one.
It's not an excuse It's looking at things over a long period of time and spotting trends and i think that there is a clear and obvious trend regarding trophies being hoovered up in the manner described. Those smaller clubs winning a handful between them doesn't disprove the trend, it is part of it - in decades previous trophies were more spread out.
Last edited:
This is what always makes me laugh on here, other teams outside the 'big 6' manage to win things. But there is always some excuse as to why super special unique Spurs can't and don't. All the other clubs don't have constraints they have to work within, there are always excuses about why Spurs are just unlucky for not being able to get over the line with a trophy for various flimsy reasons.
You make your own luck, and it's all to do with the culture of the club and that starts from the very top. Enough ex players have referred to it, but of course some would rather ignore what is staring them in the face...
Baleforce
Vinnie Samways
Which one of those clubs would you like to swap places with right now?
Success isn’t only measured by trophies.
We've won a trophy, same as each of those clubs - the discussion is not what seperates us from those clubs it's what seperates us from those that win consistently/semi-consistently.
You can't ignore that since Sky & CL money came in to the game trophies are being won by fewer and fewer clubs - it's there in black & white and no amount of making your own luck or other clichés will change that.
You are right for sure, since Sky fewer clubs win trophies. But all of the big 6 have won trophies on a consistent basis and we have not even come close to that. Why? We have had better squads than all those teams at various points, yet win nada. We have spent similar levels to them, yet win nada.
It's because the culture at the club is one where a player can be comfortable. We don't push the boat out in terms of wages, we offer player/manager contracts incentivised towards CL qualification. Says it all really...
I've explained why - prior to 2020 ish our revenue was much lower than the rest of those clubs (or tied up in to the stadium build) in fact the top 6 is really a misnomer as it was really a top 5 that we managed to break in to through consistent league performance, up until recently we were much closer financially to the clubs below us than we were the clubs we were competing with.
Bishop
Pedro Mendes
In football terms success is only winning trophies.
That's fine, but it's not about the money. It's the club culture that is the problem. I would be happy with different owners who spend to similar levels with perhaps a loosening of the wage expenditure but have different priorities/a different way of going about meeting objectives....
Baleforce
Vinnie Samways
I completely disagree.
Like I have said previously the data/results from the last 20 odd years show that unless you are spending in line with City through to the Arsenal/Chelsea then you are not going to be picking up trophies. So different owners would highly likely have made no difference to our return over the same period.
To cover some of what @Bishop posted - sure different owners 'may' have made different decisions at key times that 'may' have garnered better results but would those different owners have made all the other decisions that put us in the position we have been in where we are considered part of the top 6 rather than the rest? Going by the fact we are the only club who have consistently battled in that part of the table i would say the evidence clearly suggests not.
Different owners might not have sacked Mourinho the week before a cup final, but then different owners might not have had us with a squad of players that a manager like Mourinho would have wanted to manage in the first place. That's forgetting that Mourinho had lost the players and was in no way going to pull off a cup win - i love the way it's been framed that we were going to do anything other than get our arses handed to us in that match with him as manager BTW
Last edited:
Bishop
Pedro Mendes
These other teams were not in charge of one of the traditional Big 5 clubs (Spurs) and thus did not have access status and geographic position as leverage. Its actually so much more impressive for Leicester to win a PL and FA Cup than it would have been if we had done the same.
We aren't little old Birmingham or Portsmouth, our context is different and better. That ENIC are unable to actually make the decisions that leverage our status into something tangible is just another example of their failing.
I believe 100% we were going to lose that final but we gave ourselves absolutely 0 chance by sacking the man who loves being the underdog in finals and tactically out matching better teams with the novice that is Mason. Its simply a stupid decision in football terms, yet another in a litany that have come before.