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ENIC

I think you must be thinking of the wrong match. VdV was shot and needed replacing but we were all over them before and after going down to 10 men. Other than their goal did they even have a shot on target?

Villa only needed a draw IIRC and played for it from the moment they scored. They weren't pushing up despite us being outnumbered.

The right choice at that time was to replace VdV with another player who could move the ball about, not someone to pirouette by our own corner flag. I'd even have accepted the old English "get a centre half up there in the mixer" - at least that would have been something. Redknapp just sat back for the draw and his 4th place bonus.

This.
'Losing the battle'? Not even close.
Parker's pirouetting became a point of humor, but I remember him receiving the ball, going BACKWARDS TOWARDS HIS OWN CORNER FLAG and pirouetting TWICE before playing a short square pass. He must've gone back 40 yards to do that, and spent nearly a minute. Many were angry.
Defoe stayed on the bench the whole game.
Some have vaulted Parker's appearance as one of Harry's 'tactical moves' designed to allow others to 'push up', but when chasing a win against a side defending so desperately that they nearly conceded a winner in the last minute to a knackered Gallas, would it not have made sense to put an extra striker on the pitch?
That first half was ludicrous. I've said this before, but there was Harry...he'd ****ed it between early March and early May, yet here it was, handed back to him on a silver ****ing platter. Just win your last two games against a ****e Villa away and an 'on-holiday' Fulham at home, and 3rd will be handed back to you. So we send out a side containing Modric, Bale, Lennon and VdV, which is met by a side who place 10 men behind the ball and show no ambition. Up the tempo maybe? Keep pressing and pressing with some urgency knowing that one breach and their dam will collapse? No. We spend the first-half strolling around.

I will never forget it...nurse? NUUUUURRRRSSSEEE! OVER HERE PLEASE NOW!
 
This.
'Losing the battle'? Not even close.
Parker's pirouetting became a point of humor, but I remember him receiving the ball, going BACKWARDS TOWARDS HIS OWN CORNER FLAG and pirouetting TWICE before playing a short square pass. He must've gone back 40 yards to do that, and spent nearly a minute. Many were angry.
Defoe stayed on the bench the whole game.
Some have vaulted Parker's appearance as one of Harry's 'tactical moves' designed to allow others to 'push up', but when chasing a win against a side defending so desperately that they nearly conceded a winner in the last minute to a knackered Gallas, would it not have made sense to put an extra striker on the pitch?
That first half was ludicrous. I've said this before, but there was Harry...he'd ****ed it between early March and early May, yet here it was, handed back to him on a silver ****ing platter. Just win your last two games against a ****e Villa away and an 'on-holiday' Fulham at home, and 3rd will be handed back to you. So we send out a side containing Modric, Bale, Lennon and VdV, which is met by a side who place 10 men behind the ball and show no ambition. Up the tempo maybe? Keep pressing and pressing with some urgency knowing that one breach and their dam will collapse? No. We spend the first-half strolling around.

I will never forget it...nurse? NUUUUURRRRSSSEEE! OVER HERE PLEASE NOW!

Yeah I will never forget it either seeing the Goons result the day before and thinking they've only gone and ****ed it right up but oh no we had to go and do the same
 
As for what the owners do, they're custodians who will earn hundreds of millions of pounds when they sell up.

not really. ask simon jordan or ken bates etc. alan sugar has said publically that owners cant make money in football. basically, the only people at the top who seem to be making money or potentially could make money are guys who act like levy/enic and american owners.

look at the clubs directly above us.

man utd: will probably only make money due to the way they financed the purchase of the club.
Emirates Marketing Project: will obviously not be making any profit
chelsea: same applies
arsenal: their club is basically run like ours, just at a higher level. and like us, its basically breakeven.
liverpool: if they continue to spend like they have done in the past few years, they will probably not make a profit (at sale). look at their previous owners. Gillett and Hicks. They managed to make a loss of over £100 in their short spell as owners (despite your claims that they are "custodians who will earn hundreds of millions of pounds when they sell up")

if we were to increase our spend to directly challenge those teams above us, trust me, enic will make a signficant loss by the time they sell up.
 
Personally i like that we run a self sustaining business - i wish all clubs had to run themselves this way. means to me that as a paying supporter i do have an effect on the club (however insignificant my ST money is in the grand scheme of things) i wouldn't feel that if i was just paying an entrance fee to watch a game of football where someone was spunking their own money - like at Chelsea/City etc or under a similar Sugar daddy here.

i like it too. i think it becomes a part of our identity as a club. and something that the fans can get behind. although ironically, it takes other clubs to have sugar daddies for this sense of identity to become stronger.
 
not really. ask simon jordan or ken bates etc. alan sugar has said publically that owners cant make money in football. basically, the only people at the top who seem to be making money or potentially could make money are guys who act like levy/enic and american owners.

look at the clubs directly above us.

man utd: will probably only make money due to the way they financed the purchase of the club.
Emirates Marketing Project: will obviously not be making any profit
chelsea: same applies
arsenal: their club is basically run like ours, just at a higher level. and like us, its basically breakeven.
liverpool: if they continue to spend like they have done in the past few years, they will probably not make a profit (at sale). look at their previous owners. Gillett and Hicks. They managed to make a loss of over £100 in their short spell as owners (despite your claims that they are "custodians who will earn hundreds of millions of pounds when they sell up")

if we were to increase our spend to directly challenge those teams above us, trust me, enic will make a signficant loss by the time they sell up.

This and if anything has been shown by recent years spending money doesnt equate success. I agree if you shopping in the top bracket the chances increase. But we spent all the bale money and hasnt come off. In fact whenever we spend money it has a habit of failing.

1 Argentina Erik Lamela Roma £30M 2013
2 Spain Roberto Soldado Valencia £26M 2013
3 Brazil Paulinho Corinthians £17M 2013
4 Croatia Luka Modric Dinamo Zagreb £16.5M 2008
5 England Darren Bent Charlton Athletic £16.5M 2007
6 Belgium Mousa Dembele Fulham £15M 2012
7 England Jermain Defoe Portsmouth £15M 2009
8 England David Bentley Blackburn Rovers £15M 2008
9 Russia Roman Pavlyuchenko Spartak Moscow £14M 2008
10 Republic of Ireland Robbie Keane Liverpool £12M 2009

We can then add in Rebrov, Armstrong etc etc.

That would suggest it isnt spending the money its the way in which we spend it.

Most top squads will be made up of 15mil players with a few 40mil players. Until we can get value out of 15mil why would we out of 40mil?
 
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This.
'Losing the battle'? Not even close.
Parker's pirouetting became a point of humor, but I remember him receiving the ball, going BACKWARDS TOWARDS HIS OWN CORNER FLAG and pirouetting TWICE before playing a short square pass. He must've gone back 40 yards to do that, and spent nearly a minute. Many were angry.
Defoe stayed on the bench the whole game.
Some have vaulted Parker's appearance as one of Harry's 'tactical moves' designed to allow others to 'push up', but when chasing a win against a side defending so desperately that they nearly conceded a winner in the last minute to a knackered Gallas, would it not have made sense to put an extra striker on the pitch?
That first half was ludicrous. I've said this before, but there was Harry...he'd ****ed it between early March and early May, yet here it was, handed back to him on a silver ****ing platter. Just win your last two games against a ****e Villa away and an 'on-holiday' Fulham at home, and 3rd will be handed back to you. So we send out a side containing Modric, Bale, Lennon and VdV, which is met by a side who place 10 men behind the ball and show no ambition. Up the tempo maybe? Keep pressing and pressing with some urgency knowing that one breach and their dam will collapse? No. We spend the first-half strolling around.

I will never forget it...nurse? NUUUUURRRRSSSEEE! OVER HERE PLEASE NOW!

And those that use hindsight to say Levy shouldn't have sacked Harry need to remember the above. I'd have f***ing sacked him. Redknapp's on-pitch performances for the most part didn't get him sacked.

You're Levy. You don't really get on that well with Redknapp anyway as he's constantly changing the squad, doesn't play young players, and doesn't really fit with how you'd like the club to be run (I'm not arguing the merits of different systems, i'm just saying that Redknapp's style is not how Levy wants the club to be run long-term).

You grew up a Spurs fan (there's nothing to doubt these particular claims of Levy, the profile fits and is there any other reason you'd trade your cushy investment number for taking on the flak that he gets from Spurs fans for over 10 years, a ridiculous capital project that is seemingly impossible to get off the ground and STILL stick with it even after his wife is diagnosed with serious illness - you'd have to have some serious Spurs-love to still be here after all that). Not only are you a Spurs fan, you're an investor, your money is tied to the fortunes of Spurs.

You've then had to sit through everyone of the sh***y performances of the second-half season collapse the previous season, where we finished 5th. You now see Redknapp, who you stuck by during his court case, when 2bf the evidence looked pretty dodgy, pretty much become distracted by the England speculation. You see him every day in training with the players. You're having to watch every single game as the wheels come off for the second season in a row. You pretty much think the same thing as thfc stef's post after the Villa game.

After the Chelsea win in the CL, Redknapp comes in according to most of the stories with two of his agents demanding a new contract "to give him stability with the players".

I can imagine at this point if I was in Levy's shoes (bearing in mind i think redknapp was the best manager we've had in my time of watching Spurs) that your thought-process and possibly even your words would be along the lines of:

"F*** OFFFFFFFFFF! No, just F*** OFF. GET OUT OF MY F***ING OFFICE. DON'T COME BACK. F*** OFF *starts chucking office furniture around* GET OUT, GO ON, GET OUT. *Redknapp and his gang run out the door* *sits down* *straightens tie* ****'s sake. *picks up phone* Hi, get me Joe on the line, we've got a problem"
 
i like it too. i think it becomes a part of our identity as a club. and something that the fans can get behind. although ironically, it takes other clubs to have sugar daddies for this sense of identity to become stronger.

I think it's generally quite well respected in the broader footballing community. People have respect for clubs that do things properly - us, Everton, Soton, Swansea, West Brom, Norwich; actually even Liverpool and Man U. While there's widespread derision for doped clubs - Chelsea, City, Wigan, Fulham, Blackburn, Crawley, Fleetwood etc.


This and if anything has been shown by recent years spending money doesnt equate success. I agree if you shopping in the top bracket the chances increase. But we spent all the bale money and hasnt come off. In fact whenever we spend money it has a habit of failing.

1 Argentina Erik Lamela Roma £30M 2013
2 Spain Roberto Soldado Valencia £26M 2013
3 Brazil Paulinho Corinthians £17M 2013
4 Croatia Luka Modric Dinamo Zagreb £16.5M 2008
5 England Darren Bent Charlton Athletic £16.5M 2007
6 Belgium Mousa Dembele Fulham £15M 2012
7 England Jermain Defoe Portsmouth £15M 2009
8 England David Bentley Blackburn Rovers £15M 2008
9 Russia Roman Pavlyuchenko Spartak Moscow £14M 2008
10 Republic of Ireland Robbie Keane Liverpool £12M 2009

We can then add in Rebrov, Armstrong etc etc.

That would suggest it isnt spending the money its the way in which we spend it.

Most top squads will be made up of 15mil players with a few 40mil players. Until we can get value out of 15mil why would we out of 40mil?

It is interesting that only one off that list (#4) would be considered a success.


And those that use hindsight to say Levy shouldn't have sacked Harry need to remember the above. I'd have f***ing sacked him. Redknapp's on-pitch performances for the most part didn't get him sacked.

You're Levy. You don't really get on that well with Redknapp anyway as he's constantly changing the squad, doesn't play young players, and doesn't really fit with how you'd like the club to be run (I'm not arguing the merits of different systems, i'm just saying that Redknapp's style is not how Levy wants the club to be run long-term).

You grew up a Spurs fan (there's nothing to doubt these particular claims of Levy, the profile fits and is there any other reason you'd trade your cushy investment number for taking on the flak that he gets from Spurs fans for over 10 years, a ridiculous capital project that is seemingly impossible to get off the ground and STILL stick with it even after his wife is diagnosed with serious illness - you'd have to have some serious Spurs-love to still be here after all that). Not only are you a Spurs fan, you're an investor, your money is tied to the fortunes of Spurs.

You've then had to sit through everyone of the sh***y performances of the second-half season collapse the previous season, where we finished 5th. You now see Redknapp, who you stuck by during his court case, when 2bf the evidence looked pretty dodgy, pretty much become distracted by the England speculation. You see him every day in training with the players. You're having to watch every single game as the wheels come off for the second season in a row. You pretty much think the same thing as thfc stef's post after the Villa game.

After the Chelsea win in the CL, Redknapp comes in according to most of the stories with two of his agents demanding a new contract "to give him stability with the players".

I can imagine at this point if I was in Levy's shoes (bearing in mind i think redknapp was the best manager we've had in my time of watching Spurs) that your thought-process and possibly even your words would be along the lines of:

"F*** OFFFFFFFFFF! No, just F*** OFF. GET OUT OF MY F***ING OFFICE. DON'T COME BACK. F*** OFF *starts chucking office furniture around* GET OUT, GO ON, GET OUT. *Redknapp and his gang run out the door* *sits down* *straightens tie* ****'s sake. *picks up phone* Hi, get me Joe on the line, we've got a problem"

And don't forget that the contract demand came the day after Levy's mum had died.
 
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Yeah I will never forget it either seeing the Goons result the day before and thinking they've only gone and ****ed it right up but oh no we had to go and do the same

Yes! I was driving from the airport to my Mum's place at the time, just landed, and heard the 5 Live report of their balling it up. I remember thinking that even Harry, with all his off-focus bull****, couldn't **** this golden goose up AGAIN...
 
And those that use hindsight to say Levy shouldn't have sacked Harry need to remember the above. I'd have f***ing sacked him. Redknapp's on-pitch performances for the most part didn't get him sacked.

You're Levy. You don't really get on that well with Redknapp anyway as he's constantly changing the squad, doesn't play young players, and doesn't really fit with how you'd like the club to be run (I'm not arguing the merits of different systems, i'm just saying that Redknapp's style is not how Levy wants the club to be run long-term).

You grew up a Spurs fan (there's nothing to doubt these particular claims of Levy, the profile fits and is there any other reason you'd trade your cushy investment number for taking on the flak that he gets from Spurs fans for over 10 years, a ridiculous capital project that is seemingly impossible to get off the ground and STILL stick with it even after his wife is diagnosed with serious illness - you'd have to have some serious Spurs-love to still be here after all that). Not only are you a Spurs fan, you're an investor, your money is tied to the fortunes of Spurs.

You've then had to sit through everyone of the sh***y performances of the second-half season collapse the previous season, where we finished 5th. You now see Redknapp, who you stuck by during his court case, when 2bf the evidence looked pretty dodgy, pretty much become distracted by the England speculation. You see him every day in training with the players. You're having to watch every single game as the wheels come off for the second season in a row. You pretty much think the same thing as thfc stef's post after the Villa game.

After the Chelsea win in the CL, Redknapp comes in according to most of the stories with two of his agents demanding a new contract "to give him stability with the players".

I can imagine at this point if I was in Levy's shoes (bearing in mind i think redknapp was the best manager we've had in my time of watching Spurs) that your thought-process and possibly even your words would be along the lines of:

"F*** OFFFFFFFFFF! No, just F*** OFF. GET OUT OF MY F***ING OFFICE. DON'T COME BACK. F*** OFF *starts chucking office furniture around* GET OUT, GO ON, GET OUT. *Redknapp and his gang run out the door* *sits down* *straightens tie* ****'s sake. *picks up phone* Hi, get me Joe on the line, we've got a problem"

THIS!
Add what GB said.
And also add the ABSURD thing he said in April about 'players don't care who's in charge' (paraphrase) which was roundly bounced on it's head once we'd been Cheslki'd!

Again, just one apology and open interview holding his hands in the air and admitting he'd lost the plot might've been enough...but he was never going to do that. Instead we still keep getting reminded how he gave us 'our best years in the Premiership' etc, etc...I'd like to have seen what AVB would've done with Modric and Bale in the same side TBH. Probably won the title!!!!!
 
THIS!
Add what GB said.
And also add the ABSURD thing he said in April about 'players don't care who's in charge' (paraphrase) which was roundly bounced on it's head once we'd been Cheslki'd!

Again, just one apology and open interview holding his hands in the air and admitting he'd lost the plot might've been enough...but he was never going to do that. Instead we still keep getting reminded how he gave us 'our best years in the Premiership' etc, etc...I'd like to have seen what AVB would've done with Modric and Bale in the same side TBH. Probably won the title!!!!!

I am not AVB's biggest fan as you know and I think he imploded badly but yes it must be pretty embarrassing for Redknapp that he didn't obtain the club's record points haul with the best squad we've ever assembled as the manager all his Fleet Street friends love to paint as a clown managed that the season after he was sacked with a team shorn of Modric, King and VDV sold due to his wife and his fitness issues.
 
THIS!
Add what GB said.
And also add the ABSURD thing he said in April about 'players don't care who's in charge' (paraphrase) which was roundly bounced on it's head once we'd been Cheslki'd!

Again, just one apology and open interview holding his hands in the air and admitting he'd lost the plot might've been enough...but he was never going to do that. Instead we still keep getting reminded how he gave us 'our best years in the Premiership' etc, etc...I'd like to have seen what AVB would've done with Modric and Bale in the same side TBH. Probably won the title!!!!!

He would have moved him out of central midfield straight away. Same as Mourinho.
 
Not looking to stick the knife in, but... After the Norwich loss at home when he played Livermore centre mid with modric I think, he said "you can't play without a defensive midfielder" it was like he was a pundits or something! The only man in the universe who could do anything about that was him!

I loved the Harry years by the way, right up until the England speculation,.
 
Christ on a bike, such memories lads. I think I'd buried those memories, but it is good to remember.

People say Levy is too quick to sack managers, I say he is massively patient, there are often huge reasons to sack a coach weeks and weeks before he finally pulls the plug.

I like our bald little assassin, and I value the fact we are progressing "the right way".

If there were only 20 good players, of course we would need a billionaire, but there are 400 good players, we just need to get 20 of them together at any one time.
 
33 million is contributed annually by the thirty six thousand people, whose entire worth combined would probably at most equal that of our owners.

I suspect that you massively underestimate (or are entirely ignorant of) the great wealth of many of those who take their place in the West stand - and, to a lesser extent, the East stand. In short, I would expect that the combined worth of the 36,000 is considerably in excess of the combined wealth of Lewis and Levy. But, to be honest, it's an irrelevant point anyway.

More important is the fact that you seem to be under the illusion that Lewis' wealth (Levy doesn't have any serious wealth beyond what he has invested in Spurs) is readily available to splash on Spurs. It isn't. It is mostly invested in all the other companies that constitute Tavistock Group. Should he sell his shares in those companies every year in order to fund Spurs?

They stand to make huge profit selling us on to someone else, after investing little compared to the amount the fans have put into the club during the time they've been here.

In what way is that different to any other type of company? Are the major shareholders of Tesco expected to give an annual amount to the company that is equal to the annual total spent in Tesco stores by customers? What about the major shareholders of Unilever? GlaxoSmithKline? Vodaphone?

Fans who buy a ticket from THFC should understand that the contract they are entering into entitles them to a seat at a Spurs game at White Hart Lane. That is all. Not a seat at a Spurs game at White Hart Lane PLUS a promise from the owner to match the ticket price with a gift to the club from his own pocket. Likewise, if I buy a £60 turkey with all the trimmings from M&S for Christmas, I know that that is exactly what I'm getting. I don't expect the M&S major shareholders to gift me a magnum of £60 red wine to go with it!

You're goddamn right I want them to put more into an 'asset' they're eventually going to turn a large profit on anyway, especially given the bad decisions they've recently been making and the guff about 'ambition' they've recently been spinning:

The bad decisions ENIC have made are another matter entirely - and certainly worthy of further debate. But there's no rational connection between those bad decisions and the demand you're making.

that, or lower the prices, let the young and poor 'uns back into the stadium they were locked out of, and stop pulling this charade of 'backing' the club with the fans' own money and then claiming credit for it.

What charade? ENIC have made no big song and dance of any money they've invested in the club. Enough of the straw man arguments.

I'm just rather sorry that you think this expectation 'ridiculous'.

I suspect that the vast majority of football fans would find your expectation ridiculous. It would be great if our owners did match ticket revenues, penny for penny, from their own pockets. But to expect that they should do so???? Nah. That's precisely the "entitlement" that you so bitterly insist to be inaccurate and unfair.
 
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Do you consider yourself a supporter of Spurs, or a contented customer of what they offer? The difference explains the different valuation of what a ticket is worth, IMO.

And, if that analogy you provided above is accepted by the majority of the current members who are throwing around the word 'entitlement' like it's going out of fashion, then please don't complain about the moaners and whiners, because they paid for the right to sit on a lump of plastic bolted to a similarly lifeless spot of pre-stressed concrete, same as you did. What they do after they acquire the 'right' to get into the stadium is their own damn business, and you as a 'customer' cannot judge what other 'customers' do with their purchased goods. If they ruin your viewing experience, that is similarly their right as a customer, seeing as they aren't breaking laws and are free to do what they wish since there's no such thing as 'consensus' among mere customers.

Well, you're right about it not being against the law, at least.

But it's still ****ing selfish.

Sigh. We are fans, not customers. That comes with a certain sense of belonging, and a set of expectations about the club we support and the team we fund. I wish people would understand that, and stop throwing the world 'entitlement' around with such gusto. Maybe then em can understand each other's concerns and arrive at some sort of consensus: but no, people want to be customers first and foremost, tutting and harrumphing at the oiks who spoil your spectating joie d'vivre.

Nope. They want to be supporters.........you know, actually supporting.

In fact, it's the people you're trying to defend who are acting like spoilt customers....."I paid good ****ing money for my ticket. I didn't pay it to watch this ****ing rubbish. Lamela, you're ****. Townsend, you're a ****. Call this value for money? BOOOOOOOOOOOOO."
 
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Everything you mentioned above applies to people who claim they are "Apple fans" not customers (Apple as in iPod/Mac). And when you see if from this perspective, hopefully you can see how ridiculous it is to not consider yourself a customer of tottenham hostpurs. basically you (like the rest of us) just have a highly inelastic demand for the services that tottenham hotspurs offers.

[-X
 
So, tickets being more expensive than West Ham doesn't given anyone the right to expect higher levels of decision making or commitment by our owners, and is 'entitlement'. That's your view, and it's eminently reasonable: that is, reasonable as long as you also agree that your ticket explicitly only allows you to be in an allotted spot in a stadium at an allotted time, and thus expecting anything more than that (like an 'experience' not ruined by those around you) is blatant entitlement. What right do you have to be annoyed at the people around you? You seem to be implying an entitlement to something more than just the guarantee of no one else being in your seat during the allotted hours: ergo, I hope you'll be as reasonable as you were with regard to other fans being annoyed at the chairman/players/manager, and cease being annoyed at your experience being ruined: after all, that would be entitlement, and illogical.

That is why I hate that word: it turns otherwise perfectly intelligent, reasonable people into bushtits, and sets up arbitrary divides between a fanbase that, more than anything else, is desperately crying out for unity right now. If you reduce the experience of being a fan of the club that I have no doubt you love as much as I do into its bare legal nature (you pay for access to a tiny bit of a stadium on average once or twice a week for 90-180 minutes), then expecting anything more than that becomes 'entitlement'. From there on, what entitlement is subsequently varies from fan to fan based on what they consider to be reasonable, which differs drastically between people. But what is common among everyone using that word is the absolute desire to set themselves up as superior to the ones they consider 'entitled', and the creation of an 'us-vs-them' mentality between fans, who in the end are all united by a love for the club that is supposed to transcend such stupidly illogical divides.

Different fans have different expectations from the club, even though they all obviously care for it. It is utterly infuriating to see the rush to occupy the moral high ground in those circumstances.

As for what the owners do, they're custodians who will earn hundreds of millions of pounds when they sell up. And at the same time, they're supposedly running a football club, a romantic endeavour that turns scholars into simpletons and allows cynical, weathered people to feel like children again for ninety minutes. Given those facts, it isn't exactly insanity to expect that they be there to help push the club over the line when we're chasing glory, or when a new manager's making a hesitant start, or when the fans are chafing in uncertain times and need a bit of relief. It doesn't have to be all three: hell, it doesn't even have to be undue backing from their own coffers, just a risk taken with the security of their own enormous assets in the background should that risk not work out and future income fall.

But no, to them we're customers, no better than the patrons of a supermarket. To hell with fans, or glory. Profitability, and as little involvement as we can manage: that will do perfectly fine for us, cry Levy and Lewis. And they know that when their relative lack of input begins showing and the club struggles in between our slow bumping up and down in upper mid-table mediocrity, the customers (who ideally shouldn't be so mouthy, but seem for some reason to occasionally dare to expect things from them) will always be pacified with a ritual sacrifice of a manager here, or a DoF there. They then quiver with fear when someone asks them to put their money where their mouths are when it comes to their oft-warbled 'ambition', and when the occasional 'ENIC OUT!' banner starts making the rounds, they swoop like vultures, clamping down on all dissent and turning the fanbase further into a quagmire of conflicting opinions.

If you're asking me to thank them for at the very least not actively taking money out of the club, that doesn't exactly reflect well on them, you know.

You can call me entitled, if you wish. Unlike you, I'm not precious about the word.

But the difference between my sense of entitlement (to watch a game of football without half the people around me constantly moaning; bitching; booing; abusing our players - no matter how young or inexperienced they may be; and acting aggressively towards anyone who asks them to give it a rest etc. etc.) and the sense of entitlement displayed by those guilty of the aforementioned is that mine doesn't detract from anyone else's experience. It is internal.

So the big difference between us is that the people who you are trying to defend are unutterably selfish. You make a big play out of the need for the fan base to be united. I don't disagree. But the first move has to come from those who have created the them and us divide in the first instance. The remainder of us don't want to think badly of them. We want to think that they have ****ing poetry in their souls. But their every utterance (and believe me, there have been thousands upon thousands of utterances that have got me to this point) is a knife in the wound that they opened up. For as long as they continue to behave as they do, ruining the experience for so many others and making White Hart Lane as miserable a place for the fans as it so obviously is for the players, then it's impossible not to feel the contempt for them that I do.

Their move.
 
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what if people want to have a moan though? saying i'm gonna spectate a football match and be negative about everything is equally as valid as being positive about everything, it's entertainent, I'm under no obligation to enjoy it

I could sit down and watch that I'm in a jungle programme and pass negative judgement about all the participants, I'm sure as many people do that as say nice things, where is the difference?
 
what if people want to have a moan though? saying i'm gonna spectate a football match and be negative about everything is equally as valid as being positive about everything, it's entertainent, I'm under no obligation to enjoy it

I could sit down and watch that I'm in a jungle programme and pass negative judgement about all the participants, I'm sure as many people do that as say nice things, where is the difference?

Would you pay extra to get a channel that mostly shows programmes you don't enjoy just so you can have a moan while watching them?
 
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