ENIC

[Bedfordspurs]

I’m not convinced it would actually be a massive game changer. 8 games instead of 2 or 3 would probably increase income by about £20m per year.

8 games at NFL income is about 8m a game
Everything.. everything is much more expensive
Even the beer was £2,50 more

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I’ve read the club statements and what stands out to me is any investment will be focussed IMO on capital. For me I read that as money for the hotel

Haven't we got another bit of land we want to develop?

The money for the hotel and that should already be set aside.

@Bedfordspurs ...it could be, and cynically it could be suggested DL has only included the 'team improvement' element to hold back any criticism from fans on 'club direction/priorities'.

I'm sure DL could raise the finance himself (via more borrowing) as his track record is impeccable on delivering projects and debt management BUT he probably doesn't want to load more debt on to his asset and rather someone else bares the risk via investment for equity or partner investors relatable to the project.

@Lilbaz ... There's 3 other towers planned (agreed) for the South Plaza

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I’m not convinced it would actually be a massive game changer. 8 games instead of 2 or 3 would probably increase income by about £20m per year.

That's not visionary enough I'm talking about 'being' the NFL franchise.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I think the extra investment is needed to ensure we don’t end up in a bad position as the current bonds start to reach maturity. We are now in a very different interest rate environment and with the club carrying over £800m of secured debt. It is imperative that we ensure we are able to pay the debt down as the bonds mature instead of refinancing.

A THFC carrying (say) only £200m of secured, long term debt is in a brilliant place for its short, medium and long term future.

There is zero sense in paying down any of this debt before the bonds mature (I'm not saying you're saying that).

We have lucked out (or skillfully negotiated, take your pick) a large percentage of our debt is at an average of 2.79%....while general market rates tick well above that, you give no-one their money back. (Zero sense). And that's before adding in how inflation has helped as well.

It's actually a feature that makes our club very attractive to an investor.

Also £800+M sounds a lot but I wonder how that will look in 2050?...probably the price of a right back from Brighton?

Of course we can be prudent.
You could stick £20m away every year, and at 5% return (conservative) compounding annually, in 20 years we'd have all the money we need to meet the upcoming bullet payments for the maturing bonds.

It's not a worry imo.

Ironically we're probably foregoing that proposed deposit of £20m pa in naming rights every season.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This is interesting....we kicked a lot of transfer business into the coming year 23-24. But these post June 2023 events on the balance sheet net out at £109M

 

[Bedfordspurs]

This is interesting....we kicked a lot of transfer business into the coming year 23-24. But these post June 2023 events on the balance sheet net out at £109M
View attachment 16961

Yeah that’s a LOT of transactions of value in one year
250 m out
150M in at a guess

 

[Lilbaz]

It is largely made up of the £77m a year that the club are depreciating the stadium by each year.

Our ebitda was £132 profit i think.

I'm not in finance, but i think that's what it said.

 

[Lilbaz]

‘Set aside’ in what way? The cash and cash equivalents THFC holds is reducing year on year (unless increasing via taking on more debt).

We still have £50m that can be drawn from the £150m enic set aside. That was extended. I didn't see how much cash we actually had. But it was over £100m in the last financials (if i remeber correctly).

 

[metalgear]

finally he says it, he is selling... i wonder if this means that something is close.
a shame that we still do not have a stadium sponsor, or has that been shelved? that and european football will help make up the deficit and improve the valuation of the club.

the club is worth 3-4 billions now, his share is about 30% and i think he's put in about 100-300m so he has done well for himself.
also by his admission - should we take it that we won't be competitive and winning anything soon unless we have the finances to support

 

[Lilbaz]

finally he says it, he is selling... i wonder if this means that something is close.
a shame that we still do not have a stadium sponsor, or has that been shelved? that and european football will help make up the deficit and improve the valuation of the club.

the club is worth 3-4 billions now, his share is about 30% and i think he's put in about 100-300m so he has done well for himself.
also by his admission - should we take it that we won't be competitive and winning anything soon unless we have the finances to support

He's looking for investment. Not the same as selling.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

finally he says it, he is selling... i wonder if this means that something is close.
a shame that we still do not have a stadium sponsor, or has that been shelved? that and european football will help make up the deficit and improve the valuation of the club.

the club is worth 3-4 billions now, his share is about 30% and i think he's put in about 100-300m so he has done well for himself.
also by his admission - should we take it that we won't be competitive and winning anything soon unless we have the finances to support

Levy hasn’t out anything in as far as I can tell
Joe Lewis and family have put about £150Mmi think wit6 their original investment and the additional £100m
It’s a massive, massive earner for them

 

[Raziel]

I’m not convinced it would actually be a massive game changer. 8 games instead of 2 or 3 would probably increase income by about £20m per year.

NFL revenue is significantly higher the EPL (about 2X total)
- Per year tv revenue for a NFL team is in the range of $250-$300M
- EPL revenue from TV starts at £79M per team

6 additional games would be more than £20M extra

The club has also applied for up to 30 non football events per year approval (initial approval was for 16)

Model is the stadium will pretty much in use every week-end

 

[DubSpur]

NFL revenue is significantly higher the EPL (about 2X total)
- Per year tv revenue for a NFL team is in the range of $250-$300M
- EPL revenue from TV starts at £79M per team

6 additional games would be more than £20M extra

The club has also applied for up to 30 non football events per year approval (initial approval was for 16)

Model is the stadium will pretty much in use every week-end

It would depend on what agreement is put in place for any NFL team. There are a lot of costs for an NFL team, so we won't be pocketing all that income. There'll probably be some agreement that the NFL team hires out the ground and we pocket this. One of the big things will probably be sponsorship, getting a premier league team and an NFL team must be very attractive and have a premium on top of normal sponsorship.

 

[scaramanga]

Our ebitda was £132 profit i think.

I'm not in finance, but i think that's what it said.

The "A" in EBITDA counts against us as losses in all the PL/UEFA measures - that's the amortisation of players.

 

[scaramanga]

There's always exceptions and anecdotes but I know plenty where the financial burden of following Spurs and increase will likely hurt them more individually than the overall gains benefit to the club....in the grand scheme. Anyway I will leave that there

Are they the ones we want there on match days?

Surely it's better for the club if tickets are bought by those to whom the prices are negligible. They'll have more available to spend at the shop/bar/restaurant.

 

[scaramanga]

It would depend on what agreement is put in place for any NFL team. There are a lot of costs for an NFL team, so we won't be pocketing all that income. There'll probably be some agreement that the NFL team hires out the ground and we pocket this. One of the big things will probably be sponsorship, getting a premier league team and an NFL team must be very attractive and have a premium on top of normal sponsorship.

There are a lot of costs, but every single NFL team makes more profit than even the most profitable PL team. Even the Bills.

 

[Lilbaz]

The "A" in EBITDA counts against us as losses in all the PL/UEFA measures - that's the amortisation of players.

True. Not a cash loss but will count.

It was a cl year so really won't count but did anyone work out how we'd stand on the new psr rules. Last i saw we were at around 58%. Think that was for the season before.

 

[Lilbaz]

There are a lot of costs, but every single NFL team makes more profit than even the most profitable PL team. Even the Bills.

Do pl teams make a profit?

 

[scaramanga]

Do pl teams make a profit?

The data I've seen compared are based around operating profit (before player trading) as trading can't be compared.

Most PL teams make an operating profit, although for many it's not much at all. City make a (fake) $69m a year.

 

[Bullet]

Do pl teams make a profit?

Some say it is stupid to make a profit, as you have to pay 25% corporation tax on the profit.
Better to spend it on shiny new players and hope they come good, and return a small loss!
For me it seems prudent to bank lots of savings if you can, for a rainy day, but I get the point.

Spurs made a small loss; I think the total loss of £87m is made up of £15m genuine loss and then £72m stadium deprecation (which we will deliberately have every year from now on because it doesn't count towards PSR). Something in that region. But I'm not an accountant so I do get confused about the finer details.

Note there is a good article here today compares PL club profits and losses https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/68713522