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Ed Milliband repeats himself

Where Labour went wrong is that rather than promoting balance, they promoted boom.

The world is in recession, but due to our household not being in order we were ill equipped to deal with it. I still chuckle thinking back about their boasts of low inflation, whilst they boasted at the same time about how house prices (the most expensive item most people will ever purchase) were booming.....
 
NW5 - What you are omitting is that Tory governments usually follow Labour busts?

So this time around, looking at the crude stats you'd conclude that Labour had great growth followed by a period of low growth/recession.

Where is actual fact Labour lost the election when the wheels were falling off already and the Tories had to clean up their mess.

I'm not an ideologue but there is no dodging who is at fault here.

There's only one party with a credible plan for business.

Labour are great for social justice, maybe the fact we have these endless cycles of boom and bust mean that there are good things like the NHS, pensions, minimum wage etc.

I just wish we could have a sensible debate without vested interests being unwilling to listen to the bald facts.

For example, the strikes yesterday.

Teacher works 40 years and retires on ?ú45k a year. They contribute ?ú115k to their pension. They get ?ú29k a year final salary pension.

In order to get the same annual pension someone would have to have a ?ú1.5 MILLION pension fund!!! These pensions are COMPLETELY unaffordable. They are a massive ponzi scheme, (literally, that isn't hyperbole) without reform they are completely unaffordable.

Now, of course people who have paid into the scheme will be tinkled that their terms and conditions have changed, but frankly TOUGH brick!

I've got a private pension, I get statements every year that tell me the fund value and projections for what I'll get etc.......if the fund falls I need to increase my monthly payments to make up the shortfall, that fudging life I'm afraid.

The 6 million martyrs in the public sector need to join the 24 million of us in the private sector who have to pay for these pensions and our kids and grandchildren who will be left with a massive debt legacy if we don't change things.

And on top of all of that they earn more for comparable jobs in the public sector as well, it's a complete myth about the pay gap, and this have been exaserbated by the recession.

Another stat for you. Not ONE COUNCIL WORKER IN THE ENTIRE UK earns the minimum wage, NOT ONE.

My wife gets it all the time in recruitment, someone works in the back office at the local NHS trust or council. Come in for a job and wants ?ú22-24k for reception work......not gonna happen. And in the north and Wales it's a real issue as the public sector distorts the local job market and prices small businesses out of employing staff, thus further worstening the problem.

Things have gotta change regardless of people liking it or not.
 
agree with Leeds above - there is, however one thing that needs addressing by the Govt/someone, and that is the cost of living

your example above re; public sector workers looking for wages higher than market value is very valid (esp in recession, less so in boom IMV - don't have any stats to back that up merely observations)

but, people budget according to their incomes (rightly or wrongly - a debate on personal financial management is a whole different discussion!), and if they have to move jobs they need to be able to afford their bills.
things like the massive profit margins made by companies (power springs to mind) needs to be curbed - now im all for freedom in the markets, you cant have Govt controlling business, BUT you do need Govt to control a countries financies and therefore effect the financial capacity of the citizens. Where companies profit margins are effecting the stability of the country, action needs taking. (along with a re-evaluation of publci attitudes towards "everyday essentials")
 
Disagree with your a little bit there MB. I actually think that utilities need to stop being viewed as profit generating businesses. We need protectionism where they are concerned, at least certainly to the point that foreign interests are not controlling our infrastructure.

I'm not talking about a Kirschner'esque forced sale, but we certainly need to get things back under our own control. I would also like to see UK PLC taking a vested interest in redeveloping the UKs portfolio both domestically and abroad... The Chinese Government pretty much has just bought Weetabix! Why aren't we backing UK companies to keep profitable UK businesses UK owned?
 
Disagree with your a little bit there MB. I actually think that utilities need to stop being viewed as profit generating businesses. We need protectionism where they are concerned, at least certainly to the point that foreign interests are not controlling our infrastructure.

I'm not talking about a Kirschner'esque forced sale, but we certainly need to get things back under our own control. I would also like to see UK PLC taking a vested interest in redeveloping the UKs portfolio both domestically and abroad... The Chinese Government pretty much has just bought Weetabix! Why aren't we backing UK companies to keep profitable UK businesses UK owned?

I would renationalise all utilities and infrastructure, they are state assets and if we need short to medium term capital spending, SPEND THE fudging MONEY!! PFI is a complete rip-off.......both Tory and Labour governments have completely fudged up there.

I agree there should be regional pay in the public sector.......why should Police/Firefighters etc earn the same up north as down south? And it's a real issue with key workers in London now as they simply cannot afford to live near where they work, especially those working in inner London
 
Is there a copy of the graph (nice coloured one going back to the 80s) anywhere that shows budget suplus/deficit as a % of GDP instead as that would be far more insightful I think.
 
having just had to correct the local council tax office on basic maths - maybe the reason they are all striking about is because even the people involved in finance cant actually add up
 
Disagree with your a little bit there MB. I actually think that utilities need to stop being viewed as profit generating businesses. We need protectionism where they are concerned, at least certainly to the point that foreign interests are not controlling our infrastructure.

I'm not talking about a Kirschner'esque forced sale, but we certainly need to get things back under our own control. I would also like to see UK PLC taking a vested interest in redeveloping the UKs portfolio both domestically and abroad... The Chinese Government pretty much has just bought Weetabix! Why aren't we backing UK companies to keep profitable UK businesses UK owned?

i agree 100% about getting such things back under UK control - but sadly I can't that happening (well, certainly not for a long time), but at the very least we need some kind of control to have a positive effect on UK living now
 
Just a bit more ridiculous wastage to digest

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...te-328-per-cent-mark-up-on-printer-parts.html

Add that to the value for money 11 billion IT system

i know most people disagree - but its this kind of thing that backs up my opinion about needing to make the health service a public-private body.

run by businessmen, as a business, but with caps on profits and tight regulation on how profits are spend (ie, keeps costs realistic, pay average salaries (not poor, not silly money - just enough to get competant pro's) and invest profits back into the business to improve service)
 
No mate, those mark ups happen all over the public sector. Some of the prices the MoD pays for basic goods were found to be outrageous recently. It just needs stamping out. As for the NHS's IT white elephant, as someone that made a tidy amount of money from it I can guarantee you the problem was just as much the private sector "professionals" at PWC etc. that led the project as it was NHS. It may need a rethink but it is still a marvel.
 
You wanna see waste you should see America. They have a no bid policy in most federal departments and an edict to always buy American. Mind blowing waste in the DoD
 
No mate, those mark ups happen all over the public sector. Some of the prices the MoD pays for basic goods were found to be outrageous recently. It just needs stamping out. As for the NHS's IT white elephant, as someone that made a tidy amount of money from it I can guarantee you the problem was just as much the
private sector "professionals" at PWC etc. that led the project as it was NHS. It may need a rethink but it is still a marvel.

It may well have been PWCs fault in that they may not have delivered but its up for the NHS procurement people to make sure they are getting what their contract says, if someone doesnt delivery you hold people to account and start using the liability clauses, not drop 11bn on it. I mean 11bn isnt just a small amount to lose on an awry contract.

Maybe the public sector should form a centralised procurement unit for these sorts of things and standardise it, get some economies of scales. Wait that would be too efficient for them.


You wanna see waste you should see America. They have a no bid policy in most federal departments and an edict to always buy American. Mind blowing waste in the DoD

Always buying American while not always cost effective isn't really the worst policy in the world. I'm unsure what you mean by a no bid policy?
 
It may well have been PWCs fault in that they may not have delivered but its up for the NHS procurement people to make sure they are getting what their contract says, if someone doesnt delivery you hold people to account and start using the liability clauses, not drop 11bn on it. I mean 11bn isnt just a small amount to lose on an awry contract.

Maybe the public sector should form a centralised procurement unit for these sorts of things and standardise it, get some economies of scales. Wait that would be too efficient for them.




Always buying American while not always cost effective isn't really the worst policy in the world. I'm unsure what you mean by a no bid policy?
Lol, you've obviously not worked with Enterprise software delivery. I know Fortune 500 companies that have spent hundreds of millions on trying to deliver a piece of software only to realise two years in they've developed a piece of brick and mothball the entire project.
 
It may well have been PWCs fault in that they may not have delivered but its up for the NHS procurement people to make sure they are getting what their contract says, if someone doesnt delivery you hold people to account and start using the liability clauses, not drop 11bn on it. I mean 11bn isnt just a small amount to lose on an awry contract.

Maybe the public sector should form a centralised procurement unit for these sorts of things and standardise it, get some economies of scales. Wait that would be too efficient for them.




Always buying American while not always cost effective isn't really the worst policy in the world. I'm unsure what you mean by a no bid policy?

They only get one quite from the preferred supplier.
 
You can’t blame the Greeks for trying to avoid austerity. But democracy won’t work if it’s at odds with reality

A child often puts the unanswerable question. Children haven’t yet learnt about the things you don’t ask, so their untutored curiosity can go straight to the bone: a question so destructive that the adult world has covered it with layers of secondary questions, muffling the shrieking primary question beneath.
Which of you, for instance — you who accept the teachings of a major world religion — has not heard a child ask how old we are going to be in Heaven, or whether Mummy will be married to Daddy or to her first husband? My guess is that the adult’s reply went along the lines of: “Hush, child, it’s not a simple as that; we need to have faith.”
Democracy is a kind of religion. It too needs faith. And there was a childish question about democracy that occurred to me and doubtless to you before we even reached our teens. “Dad, what if a government needs to do something that voters don’t like?”
“Well, lad, it’s not a simple as that. Politicians can educate people and explain why this unpopular thing has to be done.”
“But what if they do explain, but people still don’t want the unpopular thing?”
“Then people can vote those politicians out and vote in some new ones.”
“But won’t people vote for the politicians who promise not to do the unpopular thing?”
“Hopefully not, lad. You’ve got to have faith.”
Faith, I suppose, that if only we explain carefully enough to a turkey the need for a yuletide feast, turkeys will vote for Christmas.
Some years ago, before this Government was elected, I wrote here about saucepan-banging: the recourse of the Argentinian middle classes when their Government ran out of the money needed to keep them in the style for which they had voted. So all night they banged saucepans underneath the bedroom windows of their politicians to stop them sleeping. I mentioned saucepan-banging in the light of the looming possibility that Old World electorates, too, might not respond sympathetically to an unsparing account of the difficulties we’d got ourselves into and the deprivations we faced. Saucepan- banging was my metaphor. It’s clear we’re in for a new season of culinary percussion, all across Europe.
I’ve argued that the pressure on the Greek people needs to be eased. I still believe that. But what if the country’s politicians (should they succeed in forming a government) remain unable to secure any respite from the debt-collectors of Berlin? Greek voters simply refuse to face the possibility.
Or what if a new election is called? Europe would be telling the Greeks they’d got the last election wrong and had better try again. And if recent polls are to be believed, Greece would respond with a raspberry: the far-left Syriza party would substantially improve its position.
Either way we’d be confronted with a clear democratic mandate for what Daniel Finkelstein has called the proposition that 2 + 2 = 5. The French electorate, too, has offered this month a milder version of saucepan-banging (cafeti?¿re-tinkling?) by voting in a socialist president who insinuates that 2 + 2 might equal about 4.25. Ed Balls, Labour’s Shadow Chancellor, things it equals about 4.1. But a popular mandate for reality denial is not the preserve only of the Left. A reason that Angela Merkel cannot cut the Greeks more slack is that her own deeply conservative electorate refuses to be told that Germans must pay to save the currency on which Germany mightily depends.
Pause for a moment to understand, even sympathise with, voters unwilling to vote for pain and unemployment. Most of us put our shoulders dutifully to the wheel, pay our taxes and can be forgiven for feeling that, since we’ve honoured our side of the bargain, we’re entitled to the standards of living we’ve been offered in return. When this is disputed by those we’ve elected, rage is natural. We’re not professors of politics or economics; we hear the expert arguments swirling about, hardly feel competent to decide, and vote for the party whose prospectus pleases us best. Is that irresponsible? Can more be expected of the majority than this? It’s normal to deny reality until it hits you.
When a democracy wants to deny reality, the people’s voice is never heard to cry, “What do we want? Unreality!” and the voice of vote- seeking politicians is never heard to cry “Together we’ll deny reality!” No, people displace: surrogates for reality are chosen, and attacked instead. In the present crisis there are two favourites.
The first is “low growth”. We declare that lack of growth is the problem, call for a “growth strategy” and praise politicians who promise to think of one.
It’s rather like drought-stricken peasants calling for a rain strategy, as if that would water their crops. There exist few modern circumstances where the removal of the word “strategy” from any passage containing it fails to clarify matters, usually demonstrating the argument’s circularity. “Growth” means more money. We’d all like a strategy for more money, and every debtor needs a growth strategy. Every sinner needs a virtue strategy. Every starveling needs a food strategy.
The second surrogate for attacking reality is to blame another group of people. The Germans attack the “lazy” Greeks. The Greeks attack the “bullying” Germans. The French attack “Anglo-Saxon” economics. We British attack the bankers, the immigrants, the tax-avoiders — and Brussels, which is apparently single-handedly constricting the coiled spring of Britain’s economic rebound with European red tape. When it comes to reality denial, only the Tory Right can match the ingenuity of the Labour Left.
Finally, we attack the politicians themselves: the whole class. They broke the promises we forced them to make, on pain of not electing them otherwise. It is to the credit of a politician if he breaks his promise when the promise was stupid and made under duress. It is the braver thing to do. So Fran?ºois Hollande will probably break his promises now he’s elected, and Ed Miliband and Ed Balls would probably break their promises if elected, and Nick Clegg broke his promises once elected — because they are all honourable men.
But we’ll grind the political class down nonetheless and insist on getting leadership that disappoints us. David Cameron and George Osborne bucked the trend for a while and got themselves elected on something close to an austerity ticket. But the key to their pitch was pain today for jam tomorrow. The middle classes do understand deferred gratification, and if that’s the price of better days to come then for us an economic hair shirt is not out of the question, for a while.
But only for a while. Implicitly, the Tories promised that Britain was dealing with a temporary interruption to the years of our enrichment. Once we’d fixed Labour’s deficit, the enrichment would resume. They never admitted that the deficit was the reason for the enrichment. They never suggested that without a deficit the enrichment would never return.
They couldn’t, could they? Not in a democracy. If we’ve been living beyond our means, then living within our means implies living less well.
For ever. And who’d vote for that? Who ever will?
I have, incidentally, no solution to propose.
 
Lol, you've obviously not worked with Enterprise software delivery. I know Fortune 500 companies that have spent hundreds of millions on trying to deliver a piece of software only to realise two years in they've developed a piece of brick and mothball the entire project.


Theres a big difference between a few hundred million and 11 billion though.

Which companies have dropped a few hundred billion on an IT project and then written it off?
 
The main beneficiaries of the nhs deal were BT, CSC, Fujitsu, Accenture.

All f them had their noses in the trough nd fudged off when the going it tough.

CfH couldn't organise a tinkle up in a brewery.
 
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