• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Dele Alli

People honestly see what they want (me included)

Dele had a decent game at best, the effort was there, the runs, but the passing wasn't, the picking up on his teammates wasn't and his usual pick the wrong time to do something flashy was still there.

No way he had an excellent game, and if Lucas is fit (not sure re comments on him not training) I still don't see how Dele has earned spot ahead of him in a set of must win games.
 
Lucas aka 'Mr Tumble' is all heart and his work rate cannot be faulted, is for me is the ideal sub to put pressure on a tiring defence not dissimilar to Erik.
Dele is coming back from a Mourinhoing and needs games.
Dele gives our team so much more and we become more fluid and the options increase exponentially.
 
AdamB said:
Yep, one different to the Poch set-up though is that he had Eriksen as a creator in the front 4, whereas the 4 on Sunday didnt have that.

You could argue that Kane is more creative than he used to be, and Bale isnt a pure winger, but that lack of a playmaker is my only concern about the front 4 from the weekend. I guess if a game was tight, we could bring Ndombele in for Dele
Click to expand...

For me the tweak needed to get that back is to get one of Ndombele or Lo Celso operating in AM. I'm not sure yet which, or if either could. But the beauty of the Poch system was Eriksen and Alli both as #10s, interchanging between the central and channels.

The closest replication would be something like

--------------------Kane/Kane

Son/Son----------Alli/Alli----Ndombele/Eriksen

------Hojbjerg/Wanyama-----Lo Celso/Dembele


I know people have said the Lo Celso and Ndombele combo doesn't work, but I wonder if Alli's energy is the key/balance to unlocking it?
 
Raziel said:
People honestly see what they want (me included)

Dele had a decent game at best, the effort was there, the runs, but the passing wasn't, the picking up on his teammates wasn't and his usual pick the wrong time to do something flashy was still there.

No way he had an excellent game, and if Lucas is fit (not sure re comments on him not training) I still don't see how Dele has earned spot ahead of him in a set of must win games.
Click to expand...
Indeed, I was surprised to see claims of an 'excellent' performance. We all want Dele to come back to his best, but it does seem some look to over egg his performance everytime he plays these days. If certain other players had put in an identical performance, it would most definitely not be described as excellent. That being said, he certainly made a positive contribution and offers something different so lets hope this is the start of him going on an upward curve....
 
Diamond Lights said:
doing stuff off the ball is helpful (see kane drawing defenders away for Bale 3rd). but ultimately, didn't think Dele did much of note on Sunday and was lucky to not be subbed off.

As others have pointed out, you can not like/rate Moura, but in the No10 role since the turn of the year, he's been one of our best performers, easily up there with Kane and now you can add Bale to that list.

Can argue til the cows come home about "a players ceiling and natural ability" etc - the fact is, Moura has outperformed Dele when given the role in the middle.
Click to expand...

What about fit for the system though?

Mourinho cast out the main possession system players - primarily Alli, Winks and for a long time Ndombele.

It's natural to rebalance now and cut some of the more direct players who were brought in to thrive in a long ball tactic.
 
harr1984 said:
Indeed, I was surprised to see claims of an 'excellent' performance. We all want Dele to come back to his best, but it does seem some look to over egg his performance everytime he plays these days. If certain other players had put in an identical performance, it would most definitely not be described as excellent. That being said, he certainly made a positive contribution and offers something different so lets hope this is the start of him going on an upward curve....
Click to expand...

His inclusion also coincided with the first time in 18 months we had any degree of crisp passing and progressive movement. That's also down to Mason, and maybe the opposition. But Alli's inclusion made a big difference to our overall gameplay.
 
Gutter Boy said:
For me the tweak needed to get that back is to get one of Ndombele or Lo Celso operating in AM. I'm not sure yet which, or if either could. But the beauty of the Poch system was Eriksen and Alli both as #10s, interchanging between the central and channels.

The closest replication would be something like

--------------------Kane/Kane

Son/Son----------Alli/Alli----Ndombele/Eriksen

------Hojbjerg/Wanyama-----Lo Celso/Dembele


I know people have said the Lo Celso and Ndombele combo doesn't work, but I wonder if Alli's energy is the key/balance to unlocking it?
Click to expand...

It is about the closest - the main difference is GLC vs Dembele. I'm still hopeful that GLC can step-up - he's a fiesty little **** so whilst he's not as big as Dembele, I think he can make it as a CM in the PL.

I think Bale will end up at Spurs next year as Levy will want him here, which will further confuse things
 
Gutter Boy said:
His inclusion also coincided with the first time in 18 months we had any degree of crisp passing and progressive movement. That's also down to Mason, and maybe the opposition. But Alli's inclusion made a big difference to our overall gameplay.
Click to expand...
Agree he contributed to it for sure, I love Dele and hopeful he will push on from here. But I also think it was much down to Lo Celsos role and also not having NDombele slow things down so much....
 
Gutter Boy said:
What about fit for the system though?

Mourinho cast out the main possession system players - primarily Alli, Winks and for a long time Ndombele.

It's natural to rebalance now and cut some of the more direct players who were brought in to thrive in a long ball tactic.
Click to expand...

Mate, you think Dele is a possession player? the fact that he worked in a system than revolved around possession is in no way a statement on that.
 
Raziel said:
Mate, you think Dele is a possession player? the fact that he worked in a system than revolved around possession is in no way a statement on that.
Click to expand...

In the sense that his trickery, passing, movement and physicality create space and opportunities against deep sitting defences - absolutely. Possession teams need their lock pickers, and he and Eriksen were Poch's (while Son provided the balance of a more direct threat).
 
AdamB said:
It is about the closest - the main difference is GLC vs Dembele. I'm still hopeful that GLC can step-up - he's a fiesty little **** so whilst he's not as big as Dembele, I think he can make it as a CM in the PL.

I think Bale will end up at Spurs next year as Levy will want him here, which will further confuse things
Click to expand...
If we want to go back to that Poch type formation and game plan then we need a better Dembele clone than Lo Celso. Soumare at Lille is perfect and perfectly primed with only a year left.... I read over the weekend that Leicester are interested in him and would be annoying for them to take another player that would improve us.
 
Gutter Boy said:
What about fit for the system though?

Mourinho cast out the main possession system players - primarily Alli, Winks and for a long time Ndombele.

It's natural to rebalance now and cut some of the more direct players who were brought in to thrive in a long ball tactic.
Click to expand...

But if you watch the game you'll see our system was a high press in the opposition half, there is literally no better player than Moura for that. His press was the reason we won the ball and directly led to goals in games under Jose.

Not trying to say Dele should be binned off, but it should be a meritocracy (life isn't , obvs) and Moura deserves the spot, especially on a high press game which he has been deployed so successfully in.
 
Diamond Lights said:
But if you watch the game you'll see our system was a high press in the opposition half, there is non-figuratively no better player than Moura for that. His press was the reason we won the ball and directly led to goals in games under Jose.

Not trying to say Dele should be binned off, but it should be a meritocracy (life isn't , obvs) and Moura deserves the spot, especially on a high press game which he has been deployed so successfully in.
Click to expand...
Moura is great at closing down, using his pace and intensity to win the ball. He has great work rate and keeps going.

Playing a high press system requires that to some extent, but also different attributes. Moura wasn't great in a high press under Pochettino imo, and we haven't really played a high press much under Mourinho. Perhaps he's better at it now, time might tell. Our pressing against Southampton wasn't very good, though that can't all be blamed on Moura of course.

Alli has shown over years under Pochettino that he can be very effective in a high pressing system. It's undoubtedly a strength of his when on form.

Moura might have deserved the start based on recent performances. Alli doesn't really have recent performances because he's hardly had a run of games all season. Based on quality, talent, potential ability of at their best Alli deserves a start. And I think he deserves the chance to prove himself and to play his way back to form. He got that, did quite well, and I don't see the problem with it.
 
braineclipse said:
Moura is great at closing down, using his pace and intensity to win the ball. He has great work rate and keeps going.

Playing a high press system requires that to some extent, but also different attributes. Moura wasn't great in a high press under Pochettino imo, and we haven't really played a high press much under Mourinho. Perhaps he's better at it now, time might tell. Our pressing against Southampton wasn't very good, though that can't all be blamed on Moura of course.

Alli has shown over years under Pochettino that he can be very effective in a high pressing system. It's undoubtedly a strength of his when on form.

Moura might have deserved the start based on recent performances. Alli doesn't really have recent performances because he's hardly had a run of games all season. Based on quality, talent, potential ability of at their best Alli deserves a start. And I think he deserves the chance to prove himself and to play his way back to form. He got that, did quite well, and I don't see the problem with it.
Click to expand...

Yeah i think there's a difference between 'closing down' which is what we have seen from Moura of late as he buzzes around chasing the ball and actially pressing as a unit - the latter being a lot more of a structured and thought out tactical plan.

Not saying that is what we are seeing from the team atm or even why Dele was included - but Moura as a player seems to thrives as an individual playing on instinct rather than to instruction, which is probably why he looked good towards the end of Mourinhos time
 
Finney Is Back said:
If we want to go back to that Poch type formation and game plan then we need a better Dembele clone than Lo Celso. Soumare at Lille is perfect and perfectly primed with only a year left.... I read over the weekend that Leicester are interested in him and would be annoying for them to take another player that would improve us.
Click to expand...

I dont know that guy but have heard his name and agree that Lo Celso is far from a Dembele clone. He's a lot more Modric-like.

The French league will be a good place to shop this summer, though we need to shift some of our non-HG players first (and obviously get a new manager in!)
 
Diamond Lights said:
But if you watch the game you'll see our system was a high press in the opposition half, there is non-figuratively no better player than Moura for that. His press was the reason we won the ball and directly led to goals in games under Jose.

Not trying to say Dele should be binned off, but it should be a meritocracy (life isn't , obvs) and Moura deserves the spot, especially on a high press game which he has been deployed so successfully in.
Click to expand...
Dele was an absolute pressing monster under Poch..... I'm pretty sure I saw a stat that showed him being one of the best pressing players in our league and beyond?
 
Finney Is Back said:
If we want to go back to that Poch type formation and game plan then we need a better Dembele clone than Lo Celso. Soumare at Lille is perfect and perfectly primed with only a year left.... I read over the weekend that Leicester are interested in him and would be annoying for them to take another player that would improve us.
Click to expand...
I don't think a "Poch type formation and game plan" requires a Dembele clone. If it does then we shouldn't go down that route as Dembele clones are hard to find.

Quite a few teams are successful playing a similar style to Pochettino without a Dembele clone. Arguably all of them, including other teams managed by Pochettino.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back