Dele Alli

[Finney Is Back]

Come on man he strolled through that game, i know he is not match fit but you would think he would want to give all he had so he could stick two fingers up at Jose. It was a game made for him ( end to end, with lots of space) but as i say the effort to do just that was not there.

What do you mean by ‘strolled’? He found space in attacking areas and helped out in defensive areas. Were you looking for him to charge around after the ball?

 

[Gazza]

ill say the same for Dele in the cup games as i do for Mourinho - you can only beat what's in front of you and what was in front of us should have been beaten. It seems like you want to praise Mourinho for steering us through the cups but not the players who helped us do so in this case?

Oh i praise the team in any win, including the manager. Do you actually think Dele has been influential or any part of the player he once was to deserve any positive feedback during those cup games. Simple question what was his contribution in those games and what was his best game?

I disagree with your point about mourinho, you said that the cup wins were not down to his management.

 

[Gazza]

What do you mean by ‘strolled’? He found space in attacking areas and helped out in defensive areas. Were you looking for him to charge around after the ball?

In some point ... YES. I expect him to be running around with intent as he used to during his best spells at the club. He is one to run about and also stop to find spaces. He just didnt have any urgency to win the ball back, but i agree he did take up some decent positions last night.

 

[billyiddo]

Oh i praise the team in any win, including the manager. Do you actually think Dele has been influential or any part of the player he once was to deserve any positive feedback during those cup games. Simple question what was his contribution in those games and what was his best game?

I disagree with your point about mourinho, you said that the cup wins were not down to his management.

yes i do mate, obviously you have to factor in the level of opposition but in the last 2 he started he ran the show both times

can you find a post where i said it wasn't down to his managment? because i'll tell you now you have imagined that

 

[Gazza]

yes i do mate, obviously you have to factor in the level of opposition but in the last 2 he started he ran the show both times

can you find a post where i said it wasn't down to his managment? because i'll tell you now you have imagined that

Really? Seriously? Not a wind up?

I dont have time to trawl through the mourinho thread but you dismissed those wins as nothings.

 

[elltrev]

Interesting how people can see things so differently. I can't help but think it's largely because we're all biased towards our own preconceptions, though maybe to differing degrees.

Personally one of my biggest frustrations with Mourinho has been his treatment of Alli this season (getting far less gametime than his performances have warranted IMO). But I have to say that I'm one of the people to whom Dele's energy / work rate / whatever you want to call it didn't look great last night. Then again I wouldn't blame him if that was just because he has just lost the desire / motivation to prove himself to Mourinho by this point. But at the end of the day none of us, including me, can be sure whether Dele or Mourinho is more to blame for what's happened to him this season, as none of us see what goes on in training, the dressing room or the manager's office. Either way, it feels to me like Dele's time at Spurs is likely coming to an end, which feels both sad (on an emotional level) and a waste of an asset (on a pragmatic level).

 

[elltrev]

Oh i praise the team in any win, including the manager. Do you actually think Dele has been influential or any part of the player he once was to deserve any positive feedback during those cup games. Simple question what was his contribution in those games and what was his best game?

I disagree with your point about mourinho, you said that the cup wins were not down to his management.

Mate, if you take 5 seconds to search for the Marine MOTM thread, you'll see Dele won it.

 

[Gazza]

Mate, if you take 5 seconds to search for the Marine MOTM thread, you'll see Dele won it.

Its about opinions for sure, do you think Dele bossed the non-league team enough to warrant a run in the starting line up?

 

[billyiddo]

Its about opinions for sure, do you think Dele bossed the non-league team enough to warrant a run in the starting line up?

we were talking about form, those were the last two games he started and he played well in both - previous to that he was last being played regularly last season. you've already said you weren't judging him on a sub appearence when he has not been used for a while so what bad form are you basing your opnion on?

last season 12 goals and assists in 25 games (several of which were sub appearnces) that's a better contribution than anyone outside of Kane and Son

 

[elltrev]

Its about opinions for sure, do you think Dele bossed the non-league team enough to warrant a run in the starting line up?

To warrant more time starting or off the bench, yes. Especially when Bergwijn and Sissoko have been so ineffective, and we know how good Dele has been at his peak. Instead Dele hasn't had a single minute since that MOTM performance, until last night.

 

[Gazza]

we were talking about form, those were the last two games he started and he played well in both - previous to that he was last being played regularly last season. you've already said you weren't judging him on a sub appearence when he was not been used in a while so what bad form are you basing your opnion on?

Since the CL final up until now. Not remotely the same player that is expected from him or a regular starter for Spurs. If you think that its good enough for him to start then fair enough.

 

[Gazza]

To warrant more time starting or off the bench, yes. Especially when Bergwijn and Sissoko have been so ineffective, and we know how good Dele has been at his peak. Instead Dele hasn't had a single minute since that MOTM performance, until last night.

See i think Bergwijn and Sissoko both cover ground well, maybe not good enough to start in all matches or against all opposition. But i cannot see what Dele has done to question him starting. If he came off the bench last night and dominated play (Of which he is well well welllll capable of) then fair enough. I just didnt see anything from him to suggest that he was more influential than Bergwijn. Sissoko is a different topic altogether.

 

[billyiddo]

Since the CL final up until now. Not remotely the same player that is expected from him or a regular starter for Spurs. If you think that its good enough for him to start then fair enough.

we're kinda just back to the original point i made now whereby i don't think he has to be the player he was to be worth more minutes than what he is getting. Im not even saying he should be straight in the XI, but we are short on goals from midfield and he scored at a decent rate last time he was played regularly so there's a potnetial solution there.

Our third highest league goalscorer has 3 goals this season.

We have a player that scored scored 8 goals in 25 games last season not getting minutes.

 

[elltrev]

See i think Bergwijn and Sissoko both cover ground well, maybe not good enough to start in all matches or against all opposition. But i cannot see what Dele has done to question him starting. If he came off the bench last night and dominated play (Of which he is well well welllll capable of) then fair enough. I just didnt see anything from him to suggest that he was more influential than Bergwijn. Sissoko is a different topic altogether.

Like I said, he was MOTM against Marine (according to GG posters), his most recent start. And then played zero minutes until last night. If being MOTM when given the chance isn't enough to warrant some more gametime over the next couple of matches, then what is? (I'm not saying he should suddenly be starting every game, I'm just talking about some regular minutes to reward his good performance and give him a chance to build some rhythm and momentum).

And I'm only talking above about the Marine game in response to your previous question specifically about cup games. If instead you want to look at Jose's whole tenure with us, here's some stats on Alli vs Bergwijn just in the last two seasons in the PL, with an almost identical number of minutes:



I agree Dele was poor last night - I'm not suggesting he should be starting matches off the back of last night. (But it wouldn't surprise me if he just isn't committed / motivated anymore based on his experience to date this season).

 

[MKSpur]

I expected to see more ‘gut busting’ for effect if nothing else. I used the analogy recently to someone at work recently about a tip I had to to move my rear view mirror for my driving test so it would be more obvious that I’m using it. Sometimes you just have to put the faux effort in to influence opinion.
I don’t like to add fuel to rumours about his personal life but he did look quite tired and pale.

Didn’t do anything wrong, a few times he actually made good runs into the box but the player in possession didn’t see him(think it was Son a few times which ironically is something he suffers when Kane isn’t on the ball). I still think he more than enough quality on the ball to play for us in a wide or midfield role, but it was hard to tell how hungry he remains to fight for that opportunity.

 

[Gazza]

we're kinda just back to the original point i made now whereby i don't think he has to be the player he was to be worth more minutes than what he is getting. Im not even saying he should be straight in the XI, but we are short on goals from midfield and he scored at a decent rate last time he was played regularly so there's a potnetial solution there.

Our third highest league goalscorer has 3 goals this season.

We have a player that scored scored 8 goals in 25 games last season not getting minutes.

Fair, but he looks a shadow of a player that can chip in or be a goal threat currently. We are running out of games to accommodate him as well if we want to finish in the top four. Hopefully he shows in training that he deserves to be more involved. An inform Dele can be a season changer for us for sure. Not so confident of that currently happening though.

 

[billyiddo]

@elltrev - did you knock that chart up yourself? can you do one showing defensive contributions?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Like I said, he was MOTM against Marine (according to GG posters), his most recent start. And then played zero minutes until last night. If being MOTM when given the chance isn't enough to warrant some more gametime over the next couple of matches, then what is? (I'm not saying he should suddenly be starting every game, I'm just talking about some regular minutes to reward his good performance and give him a chance to build some rhythm and momentum).

And I'm only talking above about the Marine game in response to your previous question specifically about cup games. If instead you want to look at Jose's whole tenure with us, here's some stats on Alli vs Bergwijn just in the last two seasons in the PL, with an almost identical number of minutes:

View attachment 10958

I agree Dele was poor last night - I'm not suggesting he should be starting matches off the back of last night. (But it wouldn't surprise me if he just isn't committed / motivated anymore based on his experience to date this season).

Wow.... that is an amazing view.

 

[elltrev]

I expected to see more ‘gut busting’ for effect if nothing else. I used the analogy recently to die to someone about a tip I had to to move my rear view mirror for my driving test so it would be more obvious that I’m using it. I don’t like to add fuel to rumours about his personal life but he did look quite tired and pale.

Didn’t do anything wrong, a few times he actually made good runs into the box but the player in possession didn’t see him(think it was Son a few times which ironically is something he suffers when Kane isn’t on the ball). I still think he more than enough quality on the ball to play for us in a wide or midfield role, but it was hard to tell how hungry he remains to fight for that opportunity.

Without knowing what's gone on behind the scenes, I wouldn't blame him for not being hungry to fight for the opportunity. I thought he fought for his opportunity vs Marine, after half a season of very limited opportunities, and got absolutely zero gametime in response. Whereas Bergwijn gets endless opportunities despite being virtually impotent in attack, and even Moura gets more opportunities despite constantly trying the kinds of unsuccessful flicks and dribbles that Mourinho publicly criticised Dele for. I'd imagine at some point you'd just give up.

 

[elltrev]

@elltrev - did you knock that chart up yourself? can you do one showing defensive contributions?

No I got it from Understat.com, and sadly it doesn't cover defensive contributions. But you can choose any two players for comparison, and filter which seasons and which positions you want to include. (So I filtered out any appearances that were deep midfield, striker, or sub, leaving just attacking midfield).