Daniel Levy - Chairman

[Jurgen the German]

its just a load of thrown mud, in isolation and context Levy doesn't make many wrong decisions imo

any criticism that references Lewis and his money is flimflam, how many private business owners did what he was suggesting rather than taking furlough money?

people lose their minds when its football, it's just business, same as any other

It’s a perfectly reasonable position to believe ENIC did a very good job on the whole from 2001-2016 ish. We can debate how good a job they did and how people would grade them but I’d say most people would put them somewhere between 6.5-9 out of 10. It’s also perfectly reasonable, IMO, to say they’ve done a poor job since around the time they didn’t back Poch fully in the transfer market. So from around 2017 onwards. They have made a catlogue of bad choices; not backing Poch, hiring Jose, firing Jose the week before a cup final (as others have said, would have been more appropriate firing him after exiting the Europa League or immediately after losing the league cup final had we lost), taking forever to appoint Jose’s replacement with an embarrassing recruitment process then picking an underwhelming choice who doesn’t play an attractive style of football. It’s just been one bad decision too many for me.

Arsenal Wenger was a legend at Arsenal but he doesn’t get a life pass because he used to be brilliant. Even he recognised when his time was up. I think it’s almost time for ENIC to do the same. Could be they wear the perfect fit to take our club onto the next level but IMO, we won’t consistently go back to what we were achieving during the peak Harry and Poch years.

 

[metalgear]

Corporates are set up to make money from *raving fans*. There's a management book and corporate training industry behind it.

On the first point that is one of our weaknesses. It means our CEO is only really accountable to himself.

On the second point it is a sad indictment on the club that the owners feel they have no need to and are not answerable to the fans. Without the fans there is no club and no £1.5b asset in their portfolio (or £3.5b that they value the club at according to Bedford).

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[metalgear]

We have boxing matches now that doesn't depend on football results.

When you have a 62,000 capacity and the most expensive tickets in the land then perhaps the fans are not actually quite as easily replaceable as the owners might think.... Especially when the product is poor. We increased our fan base again when we were riding high under Pochettino, some of those new fans can be quite fickle and less interested when things aren't going as well. With gross debt of about £1.2 billion the club needs to operate at high capacity and high prices. We no longer have CL revenue that we had a few years ago. We no longer have Europa revenue that we had last season (and in the seasons before Poch worked his magic to make us a CL regular). There have been far more corporate tickets for sale on a match by match basis this season (I've had a few calls from THFC about these). If we slip even further away from challenging as is evident then the take up of these will decrease further, that means less money that can go towards squad strengthening and (likely) us falling even further away.

A business should never take its customers for granted. Not even a business who has a unique hold over its customers.

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[metalgear]

Don't forget the players. Even I could play in different formations and roles, and be bothered to ask sometimes.

The new players coming in and making a difference had no baggage and played well. Conversely could mean that some of the starting eleven suddenly forgot or lost the will to try to play good football.

I do find it a little bit amusing that the likes of @Finney Is Back are kind of responsible for Levy hiring Paratici > Paratici then stopping us signing Fonseca > and hiring Nuno instead.

All the talk from the end of last season from the naysayers was how Levy needed to get a DoF in. Now we have one, we have to let him mould the side. Who in their right mind thinks that will take place in a couple of games!? Both Paratici and Nuno need time to work. We have some talent in the side, we have a bit of a conundrum in midfield imo, but it is quite normal that a side needs time to take shape. That is not Levy's responsibility. He's done what Finney etc were baying for. Now he's appointed a DoF, they are of course having a good old whinge about whatever else they can.

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[Finney Is Back]

And that's why he shouldn't be included in a list like the one you posted.

Ignoring him in a conversation about our willingness to spend though? If that's how you want to have conversations about these issues, sure. I find it lacking in nuance, context and content. I have nothing to add to that conversation that isn't already in my previous post in that case.

I expect other teams have also done similar loan to perm type deals so their spending numbers are also impacted in a similar way to ours. While Romero isn't included in our net spend (as we haven't actually bought him yet) Sarr is included (even though we haven't actually got the player in our squad) so it evens out a bit in some ways.

Next Summer it will (likely) show that we have spent £45m (or whatever it was) on Romero. We may or may not sell some players to help fund that, we'll only know that next summer.

The facts of the matter are that we spent £30m net trying to improve our first team set up in the window just gone (while also no doubt cutting a very large amount from our season 2020/21 wage bill).

 

[Finney Is Back]

We have boxing matches now that doesn't depend on football results.

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Indeed we do. The £2m or so that likely put into the club coffers is welcome but not going to redefine the football landscape.

One thing I hope the club does is gets permission from Harringey to have far more events at full stadium capacity. Our income from this revenue stream is currently limited by the cap on the number of events.

 

[NoLimits01]

They don't. They evidence that they don't really have the desire to try to compete for trophies with most decisions that they make at the club.

Our owners have a HUGE desire to make as much money as possible for themselves and, to be fair to them, they are both absolutely brilliant at achieving that desire. I have to tip my hat to them there, they are clearly both fantastic business men.

Our owners may even end up making more money out of a football club than any other owner in the history of English football (other than perhaps the Glaziers, who might even be better at making money for themselves than Joe and Daniel, with their leveraged buyout of Man Utd costing them pretty much nothing at all).

How much does Levy and Joe make out of he club and what's that as a percentage of their other investment and revenue streams?

I'm assuming you know this

 

[SpurMeUp]

How much does Levy and Joe make out of he club and what's that as a percentage of their other investment and revenue streams?

I'm assuming you know this

And considering neither Lewis or Levy take any dividends Spurs is not exactly a cash cow. That is why Levy takes a big salary. If these owners were solely interested in taking money they would have sold up long ago. Joe Lewis at 80+ is hardly going to be scratching around for more money, when he is worth x billion. While sitting on his mega-yacht according to Finney he's obsessing about how to get a few million out of Spurs? How wide of the mark - basic logic and past history shows the actual reality.

 

[parklane1]

And considering neither Lewis or Levy take any dividends Spurs is not exactly a cash cow. That is why Levy takes a big salary. If these owners were solely interested in taking money they would have sold up long ago. Joe Lewis at 80+ is hardly going to be scratching around for more money, when he is worth x billion. While sitting on his mega-yacht according to Finney he's obsessing about how to get a few million out of Spurs? How wide of the mark - basic logic and past history shows the actual reality.

Finney and logic when it comes to Levy?? do not hold your breath.

 

[Finney Is Back]

How much does Levy and Joe make out of he club and what's that as a percentage of their other investment and revenue streams?

I'm assuming you know this

Rough numbers....
Daniel Levy was named in the Sunday Times rich list for the first time in 2020. His net worth was published as £329m. This was said to be made up of a stake in THFC worth £319m and £10m of wealth accrued by private means (though I would be amazed if Levy only had £10m of net worth outside of THFC - especially with him being paid upwards of £3m a year by THFC for many years and having been a director of literally dozens of companies) Levy's net worth was based on a £1.268b valuation of THFC which I think is a little lower than reality. From these numbers though 96% of Daniel Levy's wealth is his stake in THFC. (Note that I would put the value of his stake in THFC at closer to £500m)

In the 2020 rich list Joe Lewis was said to be worth £4b. His stake in THFC is probably worth about £1b so THFC makes up about 25% of his net worth.

Joe Lewis does not take any funds out of the club, though his investment of about £30 million to purchase the club has become worth about £1b.
Daniel Levy takes out over £3m a year in wages from Spurs. His investment of about £15m to buy THFC is probably now worth about £500m.

THFC has certainly been Daniel Levy's best ever investment.
THFC may be Joe Lewis' best ever investment, that really depends on how much he made on Black Wednesday. His business partner George Soros was said to have made £526 million betting against the pound that day and Lewis was said to have gone in larger than Soros did.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Finney and logic when it comes to Levy?? do not hold your breath.

They might make you feel smug so whatever floats your boat.... but your posts rarely actually add anything to the debate parklane.

 

[metalgear]

Rough numbers....
Daniel Levy was named in the Sunday Times rich list for the first time in 2020. His net worth was published as £329m. This was said to be made up of a stake in THFC worth £319m and £10m of wealth accrued by private means (though I would be amazed if Levy only had £10m of net worth outside of THFC - especially with him being paid upwards of £3m a year by THFC for many years and having been a director of literally dozens of companies) Levy's net worth was based on a £1.268b valuation of THFC which I think is a little lower than reality. From these numbers though 96% of Daniel Levy's wealth is his stake in THFC. (Note that I would put the value of his stake in THFC at closer to £500m)

In the 2020 rich list Joe Lewis was said to be worth £4b. His stake in THFC is probably worth about £1b so THFC makes up about 25% of his net worth.

Joe Lewis does not take any funds out of the club, though his investment of about £30 million to purchase the club has become worth about £1b.
Daniel Levy takes out over £3m a year in wages from Spurs. His investment of about £15m to buy THFC is probably now worth about £500m.

THFC has certainly been Daniel Levy's best ever investment.
THFC may be Joe Lewis' best ever investment, that really depends on how much he made on Black Wednesday. His business partner George Soros was said to have made £526 million betting against the pound that day and Lewis was said to have gone in larger than Soros did.

Now watch all the other rich owner in replicate this with spanking new stadiums and serviceable long term debt, where they can pay themselves as employee to increase the value of the club for themselves as owners of the club. banks lend because there will be fans in the stadium buying the shirts for decades to come. The whole EPL is one huge event and festival if you think about it.

 

[parklane1]

They might make you feel smug so whatever floats your boat.... but your posts rarely actually add anything to the debate parklane.

And that is from a man who fills this forum up with digs at Levy. Pot Kettle.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And that is from a man who fills this forum up with digs at Levy. Pot Kettle.

As you can see I have responded cordially to both SpurMeUp and NoLimits01's posts. Your posts though don't really provide much to respond to. They are quite childish really, though I think you are a grown man?

 

[SpurMeUp]

That is not the way investment funds work.
When an investor holds an investment the investor will either sell at the point which they think the investment has reached its maximum potential value. Or sell at the point when they think the capital tied up in the asset or additional capital required to further increase the asset price could be put to better use elsewhere.
Levy and Lewis felt that football was massively undervalued as an entertainment business when they purchased the club. They have been proved right (they are brilliant businessmen). I expect they think the business is still undervalued (i.e. ESL and/or streaming/social media monetisation).

I own both majority and minority stakes in various businesses. My main motivation in owning those is to make as much money as possible. Why would I sell those stakes unless I believe they have either risen to their maximum value or I think I can put the money to better use elsewhere?

I would guess you have not held any concerns for 20+ years. Most profit-hungry investors would look for a shorter turnaround! Your whole mantra about them being money-grabbing is just wide of the mark. They have literally taken nothing out the club. The Glaziers on the other hand take yearly dividends. If Levy and Lewis were money-grabbing and only concerned with profits they too would be taking money out the club. The fact is, they have not. It doesn't fit your narrative, but it is the reality.

Furthermore, if you were 87 and worth many billions would you be looking for millions more from your boyhood football team? The team your father probably supported? It doesn't make any sense. The profit-driven money-hungry capitalists who don't take any dividends for 20 years, and who could sell their shares at a massive profit, yet don't. Something in your narrative doesn't stack up.

Your other complaint seems to be that our owners are shrewd. Why is that a bad thing exactly? Almost like you are jealous of their successes. Other owners didn't build a training centre that is rented out by any visiting teams, or build a stadium that is rented out to other events etc. Shouldn't we appreciate excellence and be pleased we have smart owners who have added revenue streams to a club that doesn't pay any dividends?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I would guess you have not held any concerns for 20+ years. Most profit-hungry investors would look for a shorter turnaround! Your whole mantra about them being money-grabbing is just wide of the mark. They have literally taken nothing out the club. The Glaziers on the other hand take yearly dividends. If Levy and Lewis were money-grabbing and only concerned with profits they too would be taking money out the club. The fact is, they have not. It doesn't fit your narrative, but it is the reality.

Furthermore, if you were 87 and worth many billions would you be looking for millions more from your boyhood football team? The team your father probably supported? It doesn't make any sense. The profit-driven money-hungry capitalists who don't take any dividends for 20 years, and who could sell their shares at a massive profit, yet don't. Something in your narrative doesn't stack up.

Your other complaint seems to be that our owners are shrewd. Why is that a bad thing exactly? Almost like you are jealous of their successes. Other owners didn't build a training centre that is rented out by any visiting teams, or build a stadium that is rented out to other events etc. Shouldn't we appreciate excellence and be pleased we have smart owners who have added revenue streams to a club that doesn't pay any dividends?

I don’t believe Joe Lewis is a Spurs fan man and boy
I believe form what I’ve read he doesn’t care about football and just loves golf
You rightly mentioned this age and that’s why I don’t get why he hasn’t sold already. I put it down to the crazy price that has been given to the club with the huge debt attached
If they sold the club for £100m their return would be amazing
And at £B considering the actual lack of investment made by them in £££ terms the return would be phenomenal
But of course that only happens if they have a buyer at a price their happy with

 

[Finney Is Back]

I would guess you have not held any concerns for 20+ years. Most profit-hungry investors would look for a shorter turnaround! Your whole mantra about them being money-grabbing is just wide of the mark. They have literally taken nothing out the club. The Glaziers on the other hand take yearly dividends. If Levy and Lewis were money-grabbing and only concerned with profits they too would be taking money out the club. The fact is, they have not. It doesn't fit your narrative, but it is the reality.

Furthermore, if you were 87 and worth many billions would you be looking for millions more from your boyhood football team? The team your father probably supported? It doesn't make any sense. The profit-driven money-hungry capitalists who don't take any dividends for 20 years, and who could sell their shares at a massive profit, yet don't. Something in your narrative doesn't stack up.

Your other complaint seems to be that our owners are shrewd. Why is that a bad thing exactly? Almost like you are jealous of their successes. Other owners didn't build a training centre that is rented out by any visiting teams, or build a stadium that is rented out to other events etc. Shouldn't we appreciate excellence and be pleased we have smart owners who have added revenue streams to a club that doesn't pay any dividends?

I'm not really old enough to have held concerns for 20+ years

I have held reasonably large stakes in a couple of companies for over 10 years though. I think both still have some way to go in terms of appreciation.

Do you really think the Glaziers should be held up as a yardstick to judge football club owners by? Why would you choose them and not Nassef Sawiris and Wesley Edens for example?

I have never said that Lewis or Levy are money grabbing, that is putting words in my mouth. Their biggest goal is increasing their net worth as is the case with 99%+ of investors around the World.
If I make it to 87 I have no idea what I would be doing. I think if I made it to 87 and had a net worth of £4b I'd probably try to do a bit of a Jack Walker and see if I could through some of my wealth at the football team I love and see if I could get it to win a trophy or two before I popped my clogs. Our owners have not taken a dividend for years because the asset is growing in value. I don't take dividends from many of my investments. The growth in value of the equity is good enough.

I am absolutely bloody jealous of their success mate.... We all should be! Actually though I am not a big enough risk taker to have done what Lewis did betting against the pound and as I am already more than comfortable I'm not actually that bothered at trying to increase my net worth. I prefer to spend as much time as possible with family and friends these days.

I think much of what our owners has done is excellent. I think they were excellent owner to take us from where we were in 2001 when they took over to about 2016 or so. To actually take that final step though and become a true top club we now need a reasonably large injection of liquidity. I do take issue that despite making (a paper) fortune out of THFC our owners have no desire to inject funds or dilute their ownership to bring in that liquidity.... and by the way I have both injected funds and diluted by equity for an external liquidity injections in businesses that I have owned before..... and those weren't even passion projects.

I guess what I am most disappointed about is that owning a football club should be at least part passion project. Our owners are supposed to be Spurs fans and yet it always seems incredibly difficult to see anything of the 'passion'

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don’t believe Joe Lewis is a Spurs fan man and boy
I believe form what I’ve read he doesn’t care about football and just loves golf
You rightly mentioned this age and that’s why I don’t get why he hasn’t sold already. I put it down to the crazy price that has been given to the club with the huge debt attached
If they sold the club for £100m their return would be amazing
And at £B considering the actual lack of investment made by them in £££ terms the return would be phenomenal
But of course that only happens if they have a buyer at a price their happy with

Why would he sell? What would he do with the money? He doesn't really need any and if he thinks the asset is continuing to appreciate in value then he will hold that asset.
It will just get passed to his kids when he dies in the same way as the cash he would receive for selling the asset does and cash is the worst form of asset anyway as it just inflates away.
My experience of the uber rich is that what they love is to see their net worth in the rich list increase each year. If you have an investment that keeps on growing then happy days!

 

[afsoc4life]

Rough numbers....
Daniel Levy was named in the Sunday Times rich list for the first time in 2020. His net worth was published as £329m. This was said to be made up of a stake in THFC worth £319m and £10m of wealth accrued by private means (though I would be amazed if Levy only had £10m of net worth outside of THFC - especially with him being paid upwards of £3m a year by THFC for many years and having been a director of literally dozens of companies) Levy's net worth was based on a £1.268b valuation of THFC which I think is a little lower than reality. From these numbers though 96% of Daniel Levy's wealth is his stake in THFC. (Note that I would put the value of his stake in THFC at closer to £500m)

In the 2020 rich list Joe Lewis was said to be worth £4b. His stake in THFC is probably worth about £1b so THFC makes up about 25% of his net worth.

Joe Lewis does not take any funds out of the club, though his investment of about £30 million to purchase the club has become worth about £1b.
Daniel Levy takes out over £3m a year in wages from Spurs. His investment of about £15m to buy THFC is probably now worth about £500m.

THFC has certainly been Daniel Levy's best ever investment.
THFC may be Joe Lewis' best ever investment, that really depends on how much he made on Black Wednesday. His business partner George Soros was said to have made £526 million betting against the pound that day and Lewis was said to have gone in larger than Soros did.

Looks at my 5 digit investments and smiles

 

[NoLimits01]

Rough numbers....
Daniel Levy was named in the Sunday Times rich list for the first time in 2020. His net worth was published as £329m. This was said to be made up of a stake in THFC worth £319m and £10m of wealth accrued by private means (though I would be amazed if Levy only had £10m of net worth outside of THFC - especially with him being paid upwards of £3m a year by THFC for many years and having been a director of literally dozens of companies) Levy's net worth was based on a £1.268b valuation of THFC which I think is a little lower than reality. From these numbers though 96% of Daniel Levy's wealth is his stake in THFC. (Note that I would put the value of his stake in THFC at closer to £500m)

In the 2020 rich list Joe Lewis was said to be worth £4b. His stake in THFC is probably worth about £1b so THFC makes up about 25% of his net worth.

Joe Lewis does not take any funds out of the club, though his investment of about £30 million to purchase the club has become worth about £1b.
Daniel Levy takes out over £3m a year in wages from Spurs. His investment of about £15m to buy THFC is probably now worth about £500m.

THFC has certainly been Daniel Levy's best ever investment.
THFC may be Joe Lewis' best ever investment, that really depends on how much he made on Black Wednesday. His business partner George Soros was said to have made £526 million betting against the pound that day and Lewis was said to have gone in larger than Soros did.

***Deleted***

Can't be arsed