Daniel Levy - Chairman

[BrainOfLevy]

@BrainOfLevy
I think you are correct that we didn't set the bar at title challenge when we appointed Poch - It was always stated the aim was to be in the CL places when we arrived in the new stadium and was always refered to as being ahead of schedule. Are we using that as evidence now the club don't ever have ambitions to go further? We were at that point a non top 4 club with a solitary appearance in the CL to our names and a mammoth stadium build fast approaching - i mean sure we need to be ambitious but targets for managers also need to be somewhat realistic. I see it always as a step by step target, the aim way back when was always to break the top 4 glass ceiling and then from there to push on and challenge the league - crawl before you can walk and all that.

It was a case of peaking too early - had that 16/17 team peaked in the final year at Wembley instead of the final year at WHL, with the following season being our first in the new stad with the money available to Ndombele/GLC/Sessegnon money available to strengthen the team, then we'd have likely taken that and run i would imagine...

fudge

Yeah, I'm not massively apart from you. I think the club has ambitions, to the extent we want to have our fair share of top 4 finishes, and be consistently among the big 6. The worrying thing is, that isn't enough for Kane, and it is yet to be seen whether it is enough for top manager candidates. And it is a drop down from where we were.

I will soften my language on ENIC to this (rather than saying they don't want to drop below 6th): I think they want to be in the top 4 as often as is possible. But I do think there is a gap between that and the ambitions that Poch and Kane had for the club. And my problem is, we didn't seemingly do what we could to maintain that position. It just wasn't in the ENIC plan, and now a lot of those decisions are coming home to roost for us.

People are right - it is not easy to expect a new owner to come in and do better than what they have done, and be better than all the bad ones that have been through this league. But it's a very common thing in business transactions, certain groups build up assets to sell them on, to groups with deeper pockets to help them attack new markets. I'm just saying I'd like that to happen here. I think then we can be seriously in the mix for title contention rather than top 4 contention, which I accept is what ENIC wants. And I think ENIC actually want a buyer now too, hence lack of naming rights, hence Amazon doc.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

What would be great is if you can find a buyer for the club please

I think there'll be some people out there. There's enough billionaires in tech and finance that could do this. Maybe a group of people pooling some money, and appointing a President to run it. There's lots of ways to slice it, but there's enough cash out there.

 

[billyiddo]

Yeah, I'm not massively apart from you. I think the club has ambitions, to the extent we want to have our fair share of top 4 finishes, and be consistently among the big 6. The worrying thing is, that isn't enough for Kane, and it is yet to be seen whether it is enough for top manager candidates. And it is a drop down from where we were.

I will soften my language on ENIC to this (rather than saying they don't want to drop below 6th): I think they want to be in the top 4 as often as is possible. But I do think there is a gap between that and the ambitions that Poch and Kane had for the club. And my problem is, we didn't seemingly do what we could to maintain that position. It just wasn't in the ENIC plan, and now a lot of those decisions are coming home to roost for us.

People are right - it is not easy to expect a new owner to come in and do better than what they have done, and be better than all the bad ones that have been through this league. But it's a very common thing in business transactions, certain groups build up assets to sell them on, to groups with deeper pockets to help them attack new markets. I'm just saying I'd like that to happen here. I think then we can be seriously in the mix for title contention rather than top 4 contention, which I accept is what ENIC wants. And I think ENIC actually want a buyer now too, hence lack of naming rights, hence Amazon doc.

Kane wants to challenge for and win trophies, he's 28 - to me it's less he doesn't think the club has the same ambitions as he does and more that a move to City is as close to a guarantee of him finishing his career with several years winning PL & CL titles as he is likely to get. Staying here, no matter the clubs ambitions, would be a roll of the dice as realistically City aren't going to be giving up the title any time soon and we're in the cluster of clubs behind them.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Kane wants to challenge for and win trophies, he's 28 - to me it's less he doesn't think the club has the same ambitions as he does and more that a move to City is as close to a guarantee of him finishing his career with several years winning PL & CL titles as he is likely to get. Staying here, no matter the clubs ambitions, would be a roll of the dice as realistically City aren't going to be giving up the title any time soon and we're in the cluster of clubs behind them.

Fine. I’ll give you that. But we still fell away from being in a position where he felt it was as realistic at Spurs. And that’s a shame, and I don’t think it was inevitable that it needed to happen, other than we lived by ENIC’s plan.

 

[spasm]

435 pages of discourse... boils down to ready to accept sugar daddy or not quite ready yet.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

@billyiddo I will even give you, because I am a fair guy, I think the signings we have made since being in the stadium are pretty good, and actually of a class that suggest that with the right spirit, and culture created around them, I think we could lock down top 4 quite often. Reguillon, a Europa winner, a quality left back. GLC - I think could probably play on any team. N'Dombele - clearly not the finished article, but in terms of talent, he's way up there. When I compare Reguillon to Liverpool signing Robertson, I feel like we can compete. I think the difference is, do we sign that player or two to really plug the big gaps in the squad and really back the manager with proven quality when required? Or do we always say those deals are juuuuust a little bit too much, and we stick to our plan?

As I said, it's one thing to worry or not about how much ENIC will spend, it's another to worry about whether they support managers in the right way. Poch succeeded because expectations were reduced and they allowed him to build a culture. That culture went away, and Kane is clearly fed up with it (The Amazon doc showed it too). For whatever reason, we allowed a group of underperforming players to complain that the Poch sessions were too tough, and then the Jose sessions were too easy. That Poch was too reserved and in his office too much in the later days, but Jose was too in their faces giving them too much criticism.

The one time we looked strategically aligned from players to boardroom under ENIC was when expectations were reduced and when Poch built that culture. To compete, if we are going to have less money, we need that alignment. Otherwise there is just no way. And we end up batting at par, which is 6th. Are ENIC going to actually let someone build it again? Why did we risk letting Jose try a completely different way of managing this squad? Why do we listen to the players so much? Did we hire Jose because of his profile, because we needed a character on the documentary that we made to try and sell the club? These are all fair questions to ask.

But as I said, I will give you, now we can pay better wages and hopefully some decent transfer fees, we should be able to build a squad that can compete for the top 4. I like a lot of our players, and think under a really aligned system and culture, I think they can do well. If we are going to win anything under ENIC, they need to show they can both let a culture be built again so we can make up the ground on money we don't have to compete, and they need to show they can back a manager with the players he needs when the opportunity is really there to push on. Because Chelsea and Liverpool won't slow down, and United seemingly are awakening in their desire to sign big players for big money.

 

[Lilbaz]

435 pages of discourse... boils down to ready to accept sugar daddy or not quite ready yet.

I think if jeff bezos came in and said i want to make spurs the greatest club ever. 99% would take it. It's just he or someone like him hasn't.

Some people therefore are just complaining about our current owners and some are sticking up for them.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

435 pages of discourse... boils down to ready to accept sugar daddy or not quite ready yet.

Agreed. I think it really does boil down to that.

I don't know if I have made my points well enough or not, but I really do not understand why so many fans, not even on a pure instinctive level, are not more angry with Joe Lewis owning our club and not putting any of his money in, given that we have been really close to actual glory a few times now and we haven't done what was needed to sustain it. I'm not saying it's fair to expect someone I've never met to spend money to make me happy. Of course it's not fair. But I am a fan. And while football is a business, it's also unique in that owners run these clubs to some extent via the consent of the fanbase. Too many protests, too much unrest, at too loud a volume, and it puts them in a weaker position to profit on their investment. The Glazers will be somewhat concerned that their brand takes a hit when images are cast over the world of protestors breaking into the stadium and cancelling a game against their biggest rivals. This stuff can have an effect.

And with that in mind, I don't understand why fans on a purely instinctive level are ok to shrug it off. I get there is something in wanting to do it the right way, but I think we've had 20 years of that, and we've now built a stadium, and City and Chelsea changed the game anyway, so where is the actual glory in it? We can go nowhere else, so our chances of success quite literally increase if we lose Joe Lewis and have an owner that would be happy to invest more cash to make Spurs a title challenging club. If we could find someone who wasn't a money launderer or a human rights abuser, why would you not want that? Joe Lewis doesn't care about you, he cares about the profit on his investment. Why is it any more glorious or satisfying because we do it his way?

 

[Lilbaz]

Agreed. I think it really does boil down to that.

I don't know if I have made my points well enough or not, but I really do not understand why so many fans, not even on a pure instinctive level, are not more angry with Joe Lewis owning our club and not putting any of his money in, given that we have been really close to actual glory a few times now and we haven't done what was needed to sustain it. I'm not saying it's fair to expect someone I've never met to spend money to make me happy. Of course it's not fair. But I am a fan. And while football is a business, it's also unique in that owners run these clubs to some extent via the consent of the fanbase. Too many protests, too much unrest, at too loud a volume, and it puts them in a weaker position to profit on their investment. The Glazers will be somewhat concerned that their brand takes a hit when images are cast over the world of protestors breaking into the stadium and cancelling a game against their biggest rivals. This stuff can have an effect.

And with that in mind, I don't understand why fans on a purely instinctive level are ok to shrug it off. I get there is something in wanting to do it the right way, but I think we've had 20 years of that, and we've now built a stadium, and City and Chelsea changed the game anyway, so where is the actual glory in it? We can go nowhere else, so our chances of success quite non-figuratively increase if we lose Joe Lewis and have an owner that would be happy to invest more cash to make Spurs a title challenging club. If we could find someone who wasn't a money launderer or a human rights abuser, why would you not want that? Joe Lewis doesn't care about you, he cares about the profit on his investment. Why is it any more glorious or satisfying because we do it his way?

Some of us don't think owners should be pumping huge amounts in to clubs to buy players. It's destroying football. It distorts the market inflating transfer fees and wages to very dangerous levels. We think that clubs should be more self sustaining and trophies not based on who's got the richest owner.

I would much prefer a salary cap or luxury tax in the prem than a sugar daddy.

 

[metalgear]

This is where we should be selling for maximum return isn't it? For all you know Kanes ankles can't take more punishment.

Pity Covid... Maybe that will hold many clubs back from bidding. But if someone offered pre-covid prices it would hard for Kane or Levy to turn down.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Gazza]

Its quite simple, Kane doesn't believe that the current setup, players, board, investment will make a serious challenge to any title.

It's not rocket science. We got in a serial winner in Mourinho and for one reason or another we failed miserably.

You cannot say that he was fully backed in the market, so if Levy is going to do that with Mourinho, any manager coming in can expect exactly the same as all other managers under Levy and Co.

We are currently set up to maximise return on the minimum investment required to make the top four. Its simply always been the case.

Why should kane hang around? Carry Levy and the team to just flounder and pretend that we want to win things?

It would take Levy to tell Kane that we have got this manager in and he has a transfer budget of xyz to even get kane thinking about staying.

Levy has never backed his manager in the market to the fullest, but is happy to point the finger when things don't go his way. In his head he thinks that it's the only way to achieve top four. He doesn't even consider titles seriously, just to balance the books with maximum returns.

We are not a club that has ambitions of winning, rather a club that is happy to take a punt.

Shopping at Harrods from 9Am, browsing around for cavier and the finest steak only to walk out for out of date bread on sale at 11PM.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Kane wants to challenge for and win trophies, he's 28 - to me it's less he doesn't think the club has the same ambitions as he does and more that a move to City is as close to a guarantee of him finishing his career with several years winning PL & CL titles as he is likely to get. Staying here, no matter the clubs ambitions, would be a roll of the dice as realistically City aren't going to be giving up the title any time soon and we're in the cluster of clubs behind them.

City is a guarantee of silverware
Is that simple
I actually think if it’s not city he won’t go
And city will not want to pay the £150m
So there is gonna be a bit of a battle

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think there'll be some people out there. There's enough billionaires in tech and finance that could do Derp Maybe a group of people pooling some money, and appointing a President to run it. There's lots of ways to slice it, but there's enough cash out there.

I don’t
I mean you have the Spotify lad winging it for arsenal and being laughed at by their owners

 

[glasgowspur]

@BrainOfLevy and @billyiddo I don't think poch had an issue with how much we were sending per se, I think it was how we were spending it and who he wanted out of the dressing room.
Levy wanted to keep players that didn't want to be here rather sell them for what considered low fees.

 

[Raziel]

As I have said before you can't just keep doing the same old things and expect a different outcome. To some on here Levy is never to blame - or maybe some say he is only partially to blame - never really his fault though. How many times have we ended up in this situation where our best player(s) decide to leave because they can't see themselves winning anything if they stay? Campbell (sorry to press that wound), Berbatov, Carrick, Sheringham, Modric, Bale and now Harry who is the best striker we have had since Greavsie and didn't cost us a fee - a true legend but forced to head off to get a trophy or two.

Its a TOTAL indictment of ENIC and Levy's MO - DubaiSpur has had it right for a long time - there's no plan to win trophies, just a plan to scrape into the CL now and again and fill their coffers.

Levy hung Harry out to dry with Nelsen and Saha, he hung Poch out to dry with two barren transfer windows until Poch just knew things wouldn't change and i think he held on until he was sacked for a better pay off rather than walking away and he hung Jose out to dry by not going the extra few Mill for Skriniar (yes, speculating, but we knew that Toby was past his best, Sanchez had failed to kick on and Dier wasn't really proven at CB). Jose needed a job and wanted to be in London BUT he has always had plenty of spending power and Levy gets him Bergwyn (were there lots of clubs in for him?) Jack Clarke, Joe Rodon, Ryan Sessegnon - the old MO of buying young and cheap and hoping to improve their asset value on the Balance Sheet.

I saw the Double team and thus the last time we won the League title - many posters on here did not, but so many seem absolutely laid back that there is plenty of time to win things, just believe in ENIC - well after twenty years I don't.

Levy will never let a DOF have his way even if he appoints one - Levy will be into every transfer negotiation - and that means three times the time to get a deal done or bargain hunting on deadline day - nothing has changed or will change...

"We are doomed Captain Mainwaring! Doomed I tell ye!"

This is the classic lets grab all the old tired/lazy narratives we can and through it together, fudge man Levy has faults but can we actually think about things before just screaming?

- Berbatov, Carrick, Modric, Bale are all 8-13 years ago, almost a fudging decade for the newest one
- Sheringham? fudging really, you want Levy to own that? 1997?
- and fudge Carrick, Modric, Berbatov, Bale and Harry, they have a large part to do with us not winning anything (they all had their chances)

Levy did not trust Harry in the end, and it's been done to fudging death that Poch didn't take players in those two transfer windows (not that he wasn't offered) and it's even more hilarious that Leicester and Tielemans is used as an example of what we should do (in this very thread), when he is one of the very players Poch turned down.

Bergwijn (£26M) and Sessegnon (£25M) were not cheap, both were highly thought prospects, and again for clarity Sessegnon and Clarke were bought for Poch not Jose.

Jose got PEH, Bale, Reguilon, Rodon, Doherty, Bergwijn, Hart, Vinicius, hardly "not backed" and yes a better CB would have helped but can we not pretend he was left begging.

Levy has had DoF's before, again he's pretty much the guy that brought the fudging concept to the PL, Arnesen & Comolli ring a bell?

Fill their coffers? fudge, fudge, fudge, other than Levy being well paid, ENIC/Levy do not "fill their coffers", they do not take money out of the club (United's ownership does), they re-invest back into the club, hence the infrastructure/training facilities/stadium/etc.

So let me scream for a minute

- Great you saw Spurs win the league title (wasn't my fudging lifetime), you want Levy own the failure for 60 years of not repeating? or just fudging maybe Spurs isn't as big a club as you think?
- A plan to win trophies? ok, what is it?

Because here's what's been tried

- Take Spurs from 5th/6th in revenue and somewhere around 19th in Europe, deal with two money doping clubs joining (so effectively pushing us down an additional two positions
- Build a modern training/academy facility to bring youth players through
- Spend ten years dealing with flimflam UK bureaucracy and government rooster blocking to buy land, plan and build one of the best stadiums in the world, been completely innovation (no one else in Europe has done)to add NFL and non football revenue to further close the gap to top teams
- Get the club to 3rd/4th in revenue and in top 10 clubs in world football
- Appoint one of the best managers in the history of the game and give him 7 players

Here's what I'm hearing

- Throw out ENIC/Levy (everyone entitled to), get new owner willing to spend ~£3B (candidates please? who is this person)
- Spend £150M-ish (completely ignore the fact that the other teams around us with better results are going to do exactly the same)
- Hire a magic DoF that suddenly will get a better hit/miss ratio than everyone else in world football (but for some reason no other big club has hired)
- Hire a great upcoming manager (that most people on this board won't agree with anyway) that will suddenly fix (magic dust again) the fact that our players (for decades) simply underachieve when it matters

Again the DoF thing is a case of not thinking it through

- Do a few DoFs do well? = yes, why don't you here about a great DoF at City/Madrid/PSG/etc?

The answer was seen at Spurs, FA given the task to rebuild with cheaper players could go buy 10-15 "cheap" players and if a third made it, that was success, your worst failure would be £10M-ish and your successes worth 2/3X that. When Comolli came in and had to buy more expensive, it gets harder. Everyone likes to point to Lille, Ajax, whoever is ignoring the fact that they buy players that aren't good enough for us anymore (we can't be a development club for players), when you step up to £30M/£40M the success rate is exposed and failures hurt.

And yes, someone is going to answer, I'm satisfied with where we are, underachievement, whatever

No, I'm not, but I am old enough to know two things
- The club is not going to disappear because of a bad season or player leaving
- We are not City/Chelsea/United or Pool (hilarious how often their model is used to compare in this thread, they are a much fudging bigger club than us).

 

[Gazza]

@BrainOfLevy and @billyiddo I don't think poch had an issue with how much we were sending per se, I think it was how we were spending it and who he wanted out of the dressing room.
Levy wanted to keep players that didn't want to be here rather sell them for what considered low fees.

Maybe a mix of not spending where poch wanted money and holding on to players that Levy judged for whatever reason to keep. Again this shows how much Levy lacks in knowledge about the dressing room and team dynamics.

 

[glasgowspur]

Maybe a mix of not spending where poch wanted money and holding on to players that Levy judged for whatever reason to keep. Again this shows how much Levy lacks in knowledge about the dressing room and team dynamics.

My over riding impression from the amazon thing was that Levy had a very naive view of the dressing room bonds. It looked like he thought every one was best mates, super happy, pulling together and wouldn't want to be anywhere else.
I very much doubt its like that, or ever was.

 

[Lilbaz]

Maybe a mix of not spending where poch wanted money and holding on to players that Levy judged for whatever reason to keep. Again this shows how much Levy lacks in knowledge about the dressing room and team dynamics.

You realise with a transfer there are 3 parties involved? The selling club, a buying club and the player. All 3 have to agree to a transfer and the details or it doesn't happen. You're making assumptions that levy didn't want to get rid of players when that may not be the case at all.

 

[Raziel]

You realise with a transfer there are 3 parties involved? The selling club, a buying club and the player. All 3 have to agree to a transfer and the details or it doesn't happen. You're making assumptions that levy didn't want to get rid of players when that may not be the case at all.

Ala Rose, I'm sure Levy would have taken two quid for him during last window ..

 

[Gazza]

You realise with a transfer there are 3 parties involved? The selling club, a buying club and the player. All 3 have to agree to a transfer and the details or it doesn't happen. You're making assumptions that levy didn't want to get rid of players when that may not be the case at all.

No didn't realise that. But Levy doesnt sell anything under his inflated prices or buy anything over either ... just saying that he sometimes is not realistic in his targets.