Daniel Levy - Chairman

[DubaiSpur]

You were not a fan of Modric, Bale, Eriksen, Dembele, Walker, Loris, VDV etc?

So we got regular CL, reached the final too, and vied for the top spots in the league, all while Levy didn’t sign good players? [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]Okay then!

Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Hahaha - I suspect he isn' t a fan of Georges Kevin-Nkoudou, Clinton N'Jie, Benjamin Stambouli, Federico Fazio, Ryan Nelsen, Louis Saha, or any number of the cheap, useless bargain-bin wastes we've also signed over the years when proper players would have had us challenging. Only fair to mention them too, mate.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

This diatribe really comes down to one simple complaint: Levy shouldn't have sacked Pochettinho. And I'd agree. So very easy to say now. However, there were many many who thought Poch should go, and some of his comments and behaviors suggested he needed a break at the least. My idea at the time was Poch should take a sabbatical - have a break - and come back refreshed, maybe even keeping on the interim manager who can add fresh ideas, and perspectives. See Ferguson who did this so successfully.

Other than sacking Poch, what are the much-maligned "poor footballing decisions" that you know Levy took?

One clear question mark over Poch was his transfers. I don't think you can separate him from our transfer performance. If one person had more power over transfers than Levy, it was Poch. Prior to Poch, you'd have to say that Levy-Spurs had an exceptional transfer record. Would you not?

Yes, it was the biggest thing for me. I think our club at that point was at a crossroads. We came to a fork, and we could have gone down the Levy road, continue with the plan as we have done, and assume that everything will continue to be up and to the right with him. Or, we could have gone the Poch route, recognised that in him we struck gold and had the opportunity to make him our Alex Ferguson. Again, I don’t think backing Poch amounted to suddenly giving him 100s of millions, but I think it did amount to backing his plan, selling players he wanted gone, and being decisive in that.

I said all of this at the time. I did not think Poch should have been sacked, because I did not think our drop off in form was because he suddenly lost his magic. I think the thing that made it a magical time was the alignment across the club and the culture created. We gave him the opportunity to create it in his first year and in his 6th, after everything he had done, we didn’t think he deserved the opportunity to do it again.

We went Levy’s way, the decision was that no Manager is bigger than his plan, and to be fair I was willing to be proven wrong if Jose worked out. The decision was to squeeze more out of the squad, because Levy believed they were good players. In a sense he was right, they are good players, but he showed he didn’t understand why they performed consistently above and beyond. It comes down to culture, alignment, spirit, motivation, and too many players at the club had decided that Spurs was no longer the place for them. The spirit had gone, so Jose was on a hiding to nothing too.

I don’t even blame Jose. I think if we had backed him properly too, gotten him better centre backs, loaning out the players he wanted to move out, I think he would have done better. But, Levy is acting as DOF, he doesn’t want Dele and Winks to go. He thinks we have a good squad, but again, I don’t think he understands what enables top performance.

Which leads us to now. We are not a tier 1 destination for the next Poch. We have lost Poch. We may well be shopping in the Parker / Potter aisle. Probably both good guys, good managers with potential. Zero experience though in top European competition, with a weight of expectation behind them. Not the players to show Son and Kane that we are still the club on the path we were 2 years ago.

We might get a different manager to those two, but tell me any realistic candidate that would make Son and Kane stand up and take notice. I think you’ll struggle. And our standing plummeting is down to Levy’s poor football decisions. Building infrastructure, he is great. Building profile, branding, relationship building with other top clubs, yes. He’s good. Understanding the dynamics of why the team is successful though? I don’t think he has a clue. I think he got lucky with Poch but he doesn’t even understand why. And that’s why I was totally onboard with Levy (even my username was all about him when I signed up because I thought he was so much smarter than everyone else in the game) but these last 2 years...my confidence in him as the right person for us going forward is shot. I think we will broadly be a top 6 team under him, I don’t think we’re ascending to City or United level because of his decisions going forward.

 

[Mikey10]

Danny Rose is still at our club.

Given all that’s gone on with him that says everything for me. It embodies all that is wrong with our approach.

 

[SpurMeUp]

The thing is, it is not like the Amazon doc, we don't really know who wanted what and what transpired.

Yes, it was the biggest thing for me. I think our club at that point was at a crossroads. We came to a fork, and we could have gone down the Levy road, continue with the plan as we have done, and assume that everything will continue to be up and to the right with him. Or, we could have gone the Poch route, recognised that in him we struck gold and had the opportunity to make him our Alex Ferguson. Again, I don’t think backing Poch amounted to suddenly giving him 100s of millions, but I think it did amount to backing his plan, selling players he wanted gone, and being decisive in that.

What was the 'Levy road'?
What was the 'Poch route'?

Is it basically give Poch a load of cash? Isn't that what happened when we spent 100m of whatever?

I said all of this at the time. I did not think Poch should have been sacked, because I did not think our drop off in form was because he suddenly lost his magic. I think the thing that made it a magical time was the alignment across the club and the culture created. We gave him the opportunity to create it in his first year and in his 6th, after everything he had done, we didn’t think he deserved the opportunity to do it again.

I totally agree. But many many on here wanted Poch gone. I wonder how many of those now want Levy gone too? At the time, many, like yourself said, 'careful what you wish for'. Sacking Poch could well set us back. It has. Similar can be said of Levy. No one has a divine right to be top of the league. And year after year after year, it is the teams with the most money that are. Levy has done more than any chairman to elevate a side closer to the elite. And the fools want him gone. Again: careful what you wish for.

IWe went Levy’s way, the decision was that no Manager is bigger than his plan, and to be fair I was willing to be proven wrong if Jose worked out. The decision was to squeeze more out of the squad, because Levy believed they were good players. In a sense he was right, they are good players, but he showed he didn’t understand why they performed consistently above and beyond. It comes down to culture, alignment, spirit, motivation, and too many players at the club had decided that Spurs was no longer the place for them. The spirit had gone, so Jose was on a hiding to nothing too.

Do you think any manager is bigger than Spurs? Do you think Poch was perfect? Come on, just because times are tough now, don't lose your brick. Two steps forward one step back.

I don’t even blame Jose. I think if we had backed him properly too, gotten him better centre backs, loaning out the players he wanted to move out, I think he would have done better. But, Levy is acting as DOF, he doesn’t want Dele and Winks to go. He thinks we have a good squad, but again, I don’t think he understands what enables top performance.

You think Levy didn't want Dele and Winks to go. That is just made up. Judging by the stories in the press, Levy and the club were trying to move both on to raise funds. You think we have unlimited money to buy players? With the stadium closed and the largest debt in football? The nativity in this thread is staggering.

IWhich leads us to now. We are not a tier 1 destination for the next Poch. We have lost Poch. We may well be shopping in the Parker / Potter aisle. Probably both good guys, good managers with potential. Zero experience though in top European competition, with a weight of expectation behind them. Not the players to show Son and Kane that we are still the club on the path we were 2 years ago.

We weren't a 'tier 1 destination' when Poch joined. We are far far more attractive now, with the stadium and training ground. Two things we owe Levy for ffs. Fans delusions know no bounds!

We might get a different manager to those two, but tell me any realistic candidate that would make Son and Kane stand up and take notice. I think you’ll struggle. And our standing plummeting is down to Levy’s poor football decisions. Building infrastructure, he is great. Building profile, branding, relationship building with other top clubs, yes. He’s good. Understanding the dynamics of why the team is successful though? I don’t think he has a clue. I think he got lucky with Poch but he doesn’t even understand why. And that’s why I was totally onboard with Levy (even my username was all about him when I signed up because I thought he was so much smarter than everyone else in the game) but these last 2 years...my confidence in him as the right person for us going forward is shot. I think we will broadly be a top 6 team under him, I don’t think we’re ascending to City or United level because of his decisions going forward.

When you say Levy's plural footballing decisions, you only identified sacking Poch as an error.

Tell me, you didn't see us progress pre-Poch with other managers?

So because we sacked Poch and hired Mourinho, who you thought might workout yourself, now in hindsight, you have turned tail and don't believe in Levy delivering

 

[Jordinho]

Which leads us to now. We are not a tier 1 destination for the next Poch. We have lost Poch. We may well be shopping in the Parker / Potter aisle. Probably both good guys, good managers with potential. Zero experience though in top European competition, with a weight of expectation behind them. Not the players to show Son and Kane that we are still the club on the path we were 2 years ago.

Which is pretty much the same aisle we found Poch on. Reading some of the stuff about Poch on here (not just this post) you get the feeling he was single-handedly responsible for Southampton's period of success. This completely ignores the work done by Cortese as chairman, Adkins in taking them from League 1 to the PL in his two years in charge, their current DoF Matt Crocker who was in charge of the academy that produced the likes of Bale, Shaw and Oxlade-Chamberlain and Les Reed who was their DoF (more or less) at the time. There were obviously many more involved as well.

What made Poch great was the structure and the squad of players already at Southampton when he arrived, just like he walked into a squad filled with untapped potential when he arrived at Spurs. Poch finished 8th in his last season down on the coast, they finished 7th and 6th under Koeman. Southampton have sold too many of their best players since without bringing in sufficient quality, we're coming to the end of the road with several of ours. What we really need to get right is the structure and the recruitment in particular. Once that's in place the coach/manager becomes just another cog.

 

[Baleforce]

Danny Rose is still at our club.

Given all that’s gone on with him that says everything for me. It embodies all that is wrong with our approach.

not a lot we can do if he won't sign a contract with anyone else, he's perfectly entitled to sit on his arse and collect his money

 

[BrainOfLevy]

The thing is, it is not like the Amazon doc, we don't really know who wanted what and what transpired.


What was the 'Levy road'?
What was the 'Poch route'?

Is it basically give Poch a load of cash? Isn't that what happened when we spent 100m of whatever?



I totally agree. But many many on here wanted Poch gone. I wonder how many of those now want Levy gone too? At the time, many, like yourself said, 'careful what you wish for'. Sacking Poch could well set us back. It has. Similar can be said of Levy. No one has a divine right to be top of the league. And year after year after year, it is the teams with the most money that are. Levy has done more than any chairman to elevate a side closer to the elite. And the fools want him gone. Again: careful what you wish for.



Do you think any manager is bigger than Spurs? Do you think Poch was perfect? Come on, just because times are tough now, don't lose your brick. Two steps forward one step back.



You think Levy didn't want Dele and Winks to go. That is just made up. Judging by the stories in the press, Levy and the club were trying to move both on to raise funds. You think we have unlimited money to buy players? With the stadium closed and the largest debt in football? The nativity in this thread is staggering.



We weren't a 'tier 1 destination' when Poch joined. We are far far more attractive now, with the stadium and training ground. Two things we owe Levy for ffs. Fans delusions know no bounds!



When you say Levy's plural footballing decisions, you only identified sacking Poch as an error.

Tell me, you didn't see us progress pre-Poch with other managers?

So because we sacked Poch and hired Mourinho, who you thought might workout yourself, now in hindsight, you have turned tail and don't believe in Levy delivering

I am pretty sure the Poch road wasn’t demanding 100s of millions. He knew the club, and it’s position, and the journey we are on. I think it was; sell Rose, sell Toby, sell Eriksen earlier. As examples. Remove players that thought they had done their time, and replenish with players that would run through walls to develop themselves and take the club on the next step.

The Levy road was ‘we have a good squad, we should be doing better. Results aren’t what they need to be’ so he decides to back himself. And I think he was wrong.

I don’t think any Manager is bigger than Spurs, but tell me honestly where you think our standing is now versus 2 years ago? We could have backed Poch, but we thought the squad was better, we thought someone else could do better, it was just the wrong move. And it suggests to me Levy didn’t understand why Poch was successful in the first place.

You’re right, I don’t know exactly about Dele and Winks. My point is simply that again, we clearly didn’t get behind Jose totally. We went some of the way, as we always do. But ultimately it is Levy’s vision on the football side, and I am saying that is a problem.

You’re misunderstanding what I’m saying about tier 1. When Poch joined, we weren’t tier 1 and neither was he. When he left, I think we were an attractive job, and I think we could have probably gotten most of the aspirational managers we wanted. I think we were close to a tier 1 destination 2 years ago, I don’t think we are anywhere near that now. I think good managers are looking at being a part of Levy’s plan and deciding it ain’t worth the hassle. Put it this way - if Levy presented a vision to ETH that had us realistically striving to make a title challenge in 3 years, I think he’d join. I don’t see why he wouldn’t. But I don’t think that’s the pitch being offered, and I think good managers can see through it.

Look, I don’t know how else I can say it. Yes, pre sacking Poch, I was all in on Levy. Sacking him I didn’t think was the right decision, but I was happy to be proven wrong. Sacking Jose means it was absolutely the wrong decision. The wrong decision if we wanted to continue our progress, to be title challengers, Champions League contenders. It was maybe the right decision if we wanted to continue with Levy’s plan, and be a financially sustainable club in the top 6, with the occasional top 4 run.

That is why I am no longer all in on Levy. I absolutely respect the job he has done, and I was one of his biggest defenders for years. I do not have confidence he is the right person to help us take the next step, and I’d rather someone else in charge. I think he’s done his job, he’s built the stadium, the training ground, and our global profile, and we should be thankful. I don’t think he’s the guy to have us really challenging. And yes, my confidence was shaken by the Poch sacking, and completely broken by the Jose failure. He clearly doesn’t understand why a manager is successful or not, he is taking a punt rather than working towards a strategic plan on the football side. And that is a massive problem considering he exhibits so much control over the football strategy as defacto DOF.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Which is pretty much the same aisle we found Poch on. Reading some of the stuff about Poch on here (not just this post) you get the feeling he was single-handedly responsible for Southampton's period of success. This completely ignores the work done by Cortese as chairman, Adkins in taking them from League 1 to the PL in his two years in charge, their current DoF Matt Crocker who was in charge of the academy that produced the likes of Bale, Shaw and Oxlade-Chamberlain and Les Reed who was their DoF (more or less) at the time. There were obviously many more involved as well.

What made Poch great was the structure and the squad of players already at Southampton when he arrived, just like he walked into a squad filled with untapped potential when he arrived at Spurs. Poch finished 8th in his last season down on the coast, they finished 7th and 6th under Koeman. Southampton have sold too many of their best players since without bringing in sufficient quality, we're coming to the end of the road with several of ours. What we really need to get right is the structure and the recruitment in particular. Once that's in place the coach/manager becomes just another cog.

I completely agree with you. A manager is only ever successful when there is alignment and structure that allows them to perform.

I’m sure Potter would be fine. I’m sure he’d have us top 6, playing good football and bringing through some good young players.

What I don’t understand, is how so many people seem to be completely fine with those kinds of expectations, given where we were 2 years ago? We looked like a club that was genuinely about to make the leap. We had the stadium, we had the ground, we had the squad, the profile, the manager, we had massive wins in huge competitions. That we are now shopping back in the ‘same aisle we found Poch on’ is a failure of the last two years of decision making at our club. Whatever anyone thinks of Jose, we went from being able to attract him, to bring back where we were 7 years ago. That’s a failure. That means we are back to hoping good football and young players keeps us happy and the occasional top 4 run. That is very different from being the next club to make a genuine leap, with the best infrastructure in the country and being ready to compete consistently with the very best. We were so close. And we’ve fallen away. I put that on Levy.

 

[Mikey10]

not a lot we can do if he won't sign a contract with anyone else, he's perfectly entitled to sit on his arse and collect his money

We could have paid up his contract months ago and not had him hanging around.

 

[Spurs7891]

Levy has transformed us from a Cup winning team into a mid table league team fighting for a top 4 places ! He has destroyed our winning formula in the Cup competitions. It is clear we are not going to win another trophy as long as Levy is the chairman !

 

[Baleforce]

Levy has transformed us from a Cup winning team into a mid table league team fighting for a top 4 places ! He has destroyed our winning formula in the Cup competitions. It is clear we are not going to win another trophy as long as Levy is the chairman !

The success and importance of the Champions League did that.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Hahaha - I suspect he isn' t a fan of Georges Kevin-Nkoudou, Clinton N'Jie, Benjamin Stambouli, Federico Fazio, Ryan Nelsen, Louis Saha, or any number of the cheap, useless bargain-bin wastes we've also signed over the years when proper players would have had us challenging. Only fair to mention them too, mate.

Not every signing can be stellar it’s that obvious mate!

If that is what you wish for support Real Madrid!

I should imagine we didn’t lose on those player and even made money on some like Stamboli. Money that helped to afford the more expensive star signings.

You are a smart fellah, why can’t you see the obvious reality of this?

I am truly baffled




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[DubSpur]

Hahaha - I suspect he isn' t a fan of Georges Kevin-Nkoudou, Clinton N'Jie, Benjamin Stambouli, Federico Fazio, Ryan Nelsen, Louis Saha, or any number of the cheap, useless bargain-bin wastes we've also signed over the years when proper players would have had us challenging. Only fair to mention them too, mate.

Some of our best signings have been those cheap bargain-bin signings, Eriksen, Dele, even Dier for £4m was a good deal

 

[DubSpur]

Levy has transformed us from a Cup winning team into a mid table league team fighting for a top 4 places ! He has destroyed our winning formula in the Cup competitions. It is clear we are not going to win another trophy as long as Levy is the chairman !

He's transformed us from a midtable team to a top 4 team, just compare the average league position in the last decade to the decade before he took over.

 

[Baleforce]

Some of our best signings have been those cheap bargain-bin signings, Eriksen, Dele, even Dier for £4m was a good deal

Yep, loads more than that too, Keane, Lennon and Robinson from Leeds, Walker, Wanyama, Toby, Trippier, Lloris, Verts, VDV, Sandro, Parker, Gomes, Corluka, Bale, Woodgate, Rose, Malbranque, Benny, Hudd, YPL, Mido, Dawson, Carrick, Kanoute

 

[billyiddo]

I completely agree with you. A manager is only ever successful when there is alignment and structure that allows them to perform.

I’m sure Potter would be fine. I’m sure he’d have us top 6, playing good football and bringing through some good young players.

What I don’t understand, is how so many people seem to be completely fine with those kinds of expectations, given where we were 2 years ago? We looked like a club that was genuinely about to make the leap. We had the stadium, we had the ground, we had the squad, the profile, the manager, we had massive wins in huge competitions. That we are now shopping back in the ‘same aisle we found Poch on’ is a failure of the last two years of decision making at our club. Whatever anyone thinks of Jose, we went from being able to attract him, to bring back where we were 7 years ago. That’s a failure. That means we are back to hoping good football and young players keeps us happy and the occasional top 4 run. That is very different from being the next club to make a genuine leap, with the best infrastructure in the country and being ready to compete consistently with the very best. We were so close. And we’ve fallen away. I put that on Levy.

Those are expectations you have plucked out of the air though? Who is saying top 6 and good football is the limit of their ambitions? Do you think that's why Levy sacked Pochettino (3 points from 5th)? Do you appoint Mourinho to finish top 6 and play good football? Do you sack him when he's a couple of points off top 6 if that's all you're interested in?

Next manager we get right has the opportunity to take us to the top, Poch almost got there with no money, next time we won't be balancing the books so can hopefully go one better.

Good to see you back posting again btw mate

 

[AdamB]

Levy will be signing Bale for next season now!

 

[Bishop]

Not every signing can be stellar it’s that obvious mate!

If that is what you wish for support Real Madrid!

I should imagine we didn’t lose on those player and even made money on some like Stamboli. Money that helped to afford the more expensive star signings.

You are a smart fellah, why can’t you see the obvious reality of this?

I am truly baffled




Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

No but you claimed he was exceptional based only on the successful players. If that's the way you want to look at it which chairman or DOF is not exceptional? They all have some good players signed. The way to evaluate fairly is to look at the number of players signed, the alternatives, the money spent and how effectively those players addressed issues in the squad.

I'm sorry but the chairman who sold Keane and Berbatov in the same window and Berbatov at the last minute at that and replaced with an on loan Frazier Campbell is not exceptional. Nor the same chairman who when we had a chance at a run for the title brought in rest home retirees in Nelson and Saha. The same chairman who didnt realise that making no additions for 2 windows would cause the squad to stagnate. I just can't fathom how on the balance of things you can call his transfer work exceptional.

I would reserve such praise to the likes of Monchi or Dortmund.

 

[SpurMeUp]

No but you claimed he was exceptional based only on the successful players. If that's the way you want to look at it which chairman or DOF is not exceptional? They all have some good players signed. The way to evaluate fairly is to look at the number of players signed, the alternatives, the money spent and how effectively those players addressed issues in the squad.

I'm sorry but the chairman who sold Keane and Berbatov in the same window and Berbatov at the last minute at that and replaced with an on loan Frazier Campbell is not exceptional. Nor the same chairman who when we had a chance at a run for the title brought in rest home retirees in Nelson and Saha. The same chairman who didnt realise that making no additions for 2 windows would cause the squad to stagnate. I just can't fathom how on the balance of things you can call his transfer work exceptional.

I would reserve such praise to the likes of Monchi or Dortmund.

Tough crowd. You don't think signing Bale for peanuts and selling him for a world record fee is anything special? Similar for Modric, Carick and even Barbatov whom he tried desperately to keep.

Careful what you wish for.

 

[Bishop]

Tough crowd. You don't think signing Bale for peanuts and selling him for a world record fee is anything special? Similar for Modric, Carick and even Barbatov whom he tried desperately to keep.

Careful what you wish for.

I don't think you can look at the successes in a vacuum and not take into account the failings also.i don't think that's so much bring a tough crowd but looking at these things objectively and unemotionally. To call him exceptional for the successful signings only seems to ignore the manu failings.