Daniel Levy - Chairman

[DubSpur]

Curious - how many people's opinions of Levy and ENIC were changed by the events of the last few days?

Honestly, not trying to call anyone out. Do you feel now that ENIC are still the best custodians of this club, or is it time for a change?

No matter what he does there's a section that are going to put a negative spin on it (others will put a positive spin). Here, if he joined he was a greedy bastard ruining football, if we didn't get an invite he was useless, if he got an invite and didn't join he was ruining the club, risking the club financially and our last chance to be on of the big boys gone.

Doesn't change my view of him one bit.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Daniel Levy: "We believe that we should never stand still..."

Also Daniel Levy:

Tottenham become first club in transfer window history to make no summer signings

 

[Bishop]

Daniel Levy: "We believe that we should never stand still..."

Also Daniel Levy:

Tottenham become first club in transfer window history to make no summer signings

I wonder if he understands the irony?

 

[Raziel]

Not really changed.

Levy and ENIC will do what's best for them financially, a lot of the time that's aligned fairly will with what is best for the club. There will be times it's not and at those times I expect Levy and ENIC to do what's in their financial interests unless the financial gain is negligible.

Olympic stadium, ESL I guess are the big things.

I imagine nothing more from just about any owner at this level, unless there is fan control, which we won't get. I would imagine no better, or quite possibly worse from most potential new owners. This I don't want or look forward to a change of ownership.

Aside from that I rate Levy as a chairman, I accept that he has flaws, but looking around I think he's one of the better one's. A change would to me most likely be negative rather than positive overall. Thus I don't want it look forward to a change of chairman.

If Levy has to go over this I can only hope we get someone very good in. It's possible we get someone better, I won't argue with that, I just don't think that's the likely outcome.

Something close to this

- Levy is not going to go anywhere, he's young and the work he's done building this asset could be a business school case study.
- Why the fudge would anyone want fan control? that's like putting passengers in charge of sailing the ship

Fans are too close, too emotional to the topic, the way that you have to look at business is long term

- Spurs progress in 20 years under Levy is nothing short of extraordinary with the single caveat of trophies, everything else, facilities, stadium, players, european participation, results and club value and profile has been better than any other club in that period globally with the only exception of the money doping clubs.
- The money is self generated and pretty much goes back into the club (we might argue priorities, e.g. stadium/facilities/land vs. players)
- The most important (and legacy of Levy) thing he has done is build a club that will (with some normality) support itself at the top level for the future (Chelsea/City/etc. require regular money doping inputs even after all these years)
- He makes ballsy decisions (sign of good leadership), he makes decisions he knows the fans won't like if he thinks its right for Spurs (and amazing how people don't respect that). That sometimes means he gets it wrong.

My biggest issue with people who go at Levy is the better alternatives? hope is not a strategy.

- If I saw a large group of other chairmen doing much better things, then I'd have a stick to compare to that puts Levy in another light, but honestly that light generally makes Levy look like the greatest chairman ever most days.
- Not single chairman I'm aware of in Europe is particularly better or I would swap for Levy (I obviously don't know every one, but the point applies)

Short answer is most people want Emirates Marketing Project (be fudging honest), they want a set of owners who just throw cash at a problem until they win with no plan to sustainability, without raising ticket prices and without joining some kind of ESL. Those same people will look aside re the morality of where that money came from (slave state) but be up in arms about ESL

 

[Finney Is Back]

How I view Levy in all of this depends upon how much it will end up costing us in pulling out of the ESL. Knowing JPM as I do I envisage some pretty hefty penalty clauses for the 3 billion or so that they had put up. If we've further damaged our transfer budget paying penalty clauses as well as the pointless (at best) swapping of Pochettino for Mourinho then I'll take an especially dim view.

If we have been able to pull out at zero cost to the club then my view of our chairman will be unchanged - that he is an adequate chairman who tries his best for the club but desperately needs to put somebody in place between himself and the first team manager and to step away from football decisions.

 

[Baleforce]

I still think he’s the best man for the job and and we are lucky to have him.

It’s a business, top to bottom and inside out.

As has been said, this “temporary custodian” thing is flimflam, ENIC own the business, they can do what they like with it.

I’m also against fan ownership, football fans are idiots.

 

[AdamB]

I still think he’s the best man for the job and and we are lucky to have him.

It’s a business, top to bottom and inside out.

As has been said, this “temporary custodian”
thing is flimflam, ENIC own the business, they can do what they like with it.

I’m also against fan ownership, football fans are idiots.

Agree with all that. He's done huge amounts for the club - think about where we were when he arrived and where we are now. Amazing stadium, training ground, youth system which produces an acceptable number of decent players, 10th(?) largest turnover in Europe, regular competitors in European football

Granted, things could have been better in some areas, but generally he's done very, very well.

 

[billyiddo]

Curious - how many people's opinions of Levy and ENIC were changed by the events of the last few days?

Honestly, not trying to call anyone out. Do you feel now that ENIC are still the best custodians of this club, or is it time for a change?

Do you think any new owner that you would have wanted Levy replaced with would have behaved any differently?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Fair enough, but imo, the real owners are the fans. A piece of paper means nothing in that regard - and if the government actually follow through with a 50+1 model for England, I'll be over the moon.

Would it be feasible to do this? Enforced sales of 51% of equity of an organisation? That sort of thing would massively scare businesses currently or wanting to base themselves in the UK. If you can do it to a football team then what next? An energy company?.... A Supermarket chain? Banks? Additionally what cap is put on ownership by an individual fan? What happens if I buy 10% of the club and combine my 10% with ENICs 49% to have voting power?

Additionally how do the current owners get fair value for money? Is the government going to find billions to buy out that 51% of each club at 'fair' value? This is hardly saving the Banking system and therefore the whole British economy is it? Or are they going to just dump 51% of each club onto the open market where casual fans are seriously unlikely to be able raise enough funds to pay anything like fair value..... Consider THFC, lets say that as many as even 1 million fans could be persuaded to pay for a share. They would need to pay what? £700 to £1,000 each to meet a fair valuation for the club. I don't think anything like 1 million people would do so.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I still think he’s the best man for the job and and we are lucky to have him.

It’s a business, top to bottom and inside out.

As has been said, this “temporary custodian”
thing is flimflam, ENIC own the business, they can do what they like with it.

I’m also against fan ownership, football fans are idiots.

That’s all fine. But you could apply some of that to levy running the football side of things when he’s essentially got the same knowledge as a fan. He’s never played the game at a high level so he should find someone to run the football side of things and have no involvement in it whatsoever. That goes for picking the manager, getting involved with transfers. He’s a brilliant businessman, he’s not a football man. Leave that side of things to people who actually know what they’re doing.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I see Levy in the same position as my brother in law, he works hard to keep his family happy and give them the best he can, but his family always want more than he can give them. It's natural to want more or better but at times you have live within your means.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Agree with all that. He's done huge amounts for the club - think about where we were when he arrived and where we are now. Amazing stadium, training ground, youth system which produces an acceptable number of decent players, 10th(?) largest turnover in Europe, regular competitors in European football

Granted, things could have been better in some areas, but generally he's done very, very well.

When people say 'look at where we were when he arrived'. We were the 5th biggest club by turnover in the PL..... which is exactly where we are now.

I agree that we have improved the training ground and stadium (though we have done so by accumulating the biggest pile of debt in European football).

Much of our rise to having the 10th highest turnover in Europe is due to the huge growth of the Premier League. This is evidenced by West Ham being in the top 20 themselves and they have been anything but well run.

Levy has been an adequate chairman. He hasn't ruined the club like Ridsdale did at Leeds and he has kept us at a level 5th place for turnover in his 20 years at the club (we have overtaken Arsenal and Leeds and been overtaken by Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool).

We looked close to taking that extra step and actually becoming one of the big clubs for a few years but the chairman failed to back the manager who took us there and now we look as though we'll remain 5th/6th (depending on Arsenal's fortunes) for the foreseeable future.

 

[AdamB]

Would it be feasible to do this? Enforced sales of 51% of equity of an organisation? That sort of thing would massively scare businesses currently or wanting to base themselves in the UK. If you can do it to a football team then what next? An energy company?.... A Supermarket chain? Banks? Additionally what cap is put on ownership by an individual fan? What happens if I but 10% of the club and combine my 10% with ENICs 49% to have voting power? Additionally how do the current owners get fair value for money? Is the government going to find billions to buy out that 51% of each club at 'fair' value? This is hardly saving the Banking system and therefore the whole British economy is it? Or are they going to just dump 51% of each club onto the open market where casual fans are seriously unlikely to be able raise enough funds to pay anything like fair value..... Consider THFC, lets say that as many as even 1 million fans could be persuaded to pay for a share. They would need to pay what? £700 to £1,000 each to meet a fair valuation for the club. I don't think anything like 1 million people would do so.

There is absolutely zero chance of it happening. ENIC's lawyers would have the easiest case of their lives, and it would probably be in breach of WTO rules too. You'd also scare off other investors in sensitive/populist sectors in the UK. Not even Jeremy Corbyn was proposing to steal back ownership of private companies!!

 

[Caitano]

I see Levy in the same position as my brother in law, he works hard to keep his family happy and give them the best he can, but his family always want more than he can give them. It's natural to want more or better but at times you have live within your means.

To be fair that analogy only works if your brother in law says he can't afford to put bread on the table as he just brought a million pound house.

 

[Baleforce]

That’s all fine. But you could apply some of that to levy running the football side of things when he’s essentially got the same knowledge as a fan. He’s never played the game at a high level so he should find someone to run the football side of things and have no involvement in it whatsoever. That goes for picking the manager, getting involved with transfers. He’s a brilliant businessman, he’s not a football man. Leave that side of things to people who actually know what they’re doing.

That is a fair point, although I'd say his mis steps are because he's a fan, Bale coming back for example, Hoddle as manager, some would say Jose too. That I (and others) agreed with these things kind of proves my idiots point.

I think we need fewer football people, I'd rather eradicate them completely and run the club on statistical analysis alone.

You can't do anything in business by feel or instinct, data is always the best way forward.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I see Levy in the same position as my brother in law, he works hard to keep his family happy and give them the best he can, but his family always want more than he can give them. It's natural to want more or better but at times you have live within your means.

I would imagine his family are pretty happy..... The growth of the Premier League and football in general has upped their inheritance to about £500 million.

 

[elltrev]

When people say 'look at where we were when he arrived'. We were the 5th biggest club by turnover in the PL..... which is exactly where we are now.

I agree that we have improved the training ground and stadium (though we have done so by accumulating the biggest pile of debt in European football).

Much of our rise to having the 10th highest turnover in Europe is due to the huge growth of the Premier League. This is evidenced by West Ham being in the top 20 themselves and they have been anything but well run.

Levy has been an adequate chairman. He hasn't ruined the club like Ridsdale did at Leeds and he has kept us at a level 5th place for turnover in his 20 years at the club (we have overtaken Arsenal and Leeds and been overtaken by Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool).

We looked close to taking that extra step and actually becoming one of the big clubs for a few years but the chairman failed to back the manager who took us there and now we look as though we'll remain 5th/6th (depending on Arsenal's fortunes) for the foreseeable future.

Why do you keep making the comparison between 5th and 5th, without mentioning how much closer we are to the 4 above us (indeed we were actually 4th in 18/19)? Just makes you seem like someone with an agenda because you’re always choosing to tell half the story.

The picture below is very different to when Levy took over isn’t it, in terms of us being part of the top tier rather than miles behind as the best of the rest?

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Would it be feasible to do this? Enforced sales of 51% of equity of an organisation? That sort of thing would massively scare businesses currently or wanting to base themselves in the UK. If you can do it to a football team then what next? An energy company?.... A Supermarket chain? Banks? Additionally what cap is put on ownership by an individual fan? What happens if I buy 10% of the club and combine my 10% with ENICs 49% to have voting power?

Additionally how do the current owners get fair value for money? Is the government going to find billions to buy out that 51% of each club at 'fair' value? This is hardly saving the Banking system and therefore the whole British economy is it? Or are they going to just dump 51% of each club onto the open market where casual fans are seriously unlikely to be able raise enough funds to pay anything like fair value..... Consider THFC, lets say that as many as even 1 million fans could be persuaded to pay for a share. They would need to pay what? £700 to £1,000 each to meet a fair valuation for the club. I don't think anything like 1 million people would do so.

I don't see how it could ever get off the ground here, at least not the 50+1 model. I suppose you could make it a requirement to have a fan group with voting rights represented on the Board. That might not be a bad thing.

I was just having a quick look at how the system works in Germany and it's not quite so straightfoward.
Firstly, the implementation was easier :
Historically, German teams were not-for-profit organisations run by members’ associations, and until 1998 private ownership of any kind was prohibited. The 50+1 rule...was introduced that year..."

There are also exemptions possible - e.g. for clubs where owners have been in place for more than 20 years. It would be ironic if the rule were introduced over here but didn't apply to ENIC due to longevity of tenure.

More here.
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/...ules-50-1-fifty-plus-one-explained-466583.jsp

 

[Baleforce]

I don't see how it could ever get off the ground here, at least not the 50+1 model. I suppose you could make it a requirement to have a fan group with voting rights represented on the Board. That might not be a bad thing.

I was just having a quick look at how the system works in Germany and it's not quite so straightfoward.
Firstly, the implementation was easier :
Historically, German teams were not-for-profit organisations run by members’ associations, and until 1998 private ownership of any kind was prohibited. The 50+1 rule...was introduced that year..."

There are also exemptions possible - e.g. for clubs where owners have been in place for more than 20 years. It would be ironic if the rule were introduced over here but didn't apply to ENIC due to longevity of tenure.

More here.
https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/...ules-50-1-fifty-plus-one-explained-466583.jsp

It would in our case, it would be the trust.

 

[scaramanga]

That’s all fine. But you could apply some of that to levy running the football side of things when he’s essentially got the same knowledge as a fan. He’s never played the game at a high level so he should find someone to run the football side of things and have no involvement in it whatsoever. That goes for picking the manager, getting involved with transfers. He’s a brilliant businessman, he’s not a football man. Leave that side of things to people who actually know what they’re doing.

Ah yes, footballers. That bottomless source of intelligence...