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Coronavirus

LutonSpurs said:
We need the vaccines more than most countries because of how badly we have fudged our response to the pandemic.

And that poor response has been driven by anti lockdown folk who are now celebrating the stupid EU beef.

The whole thing is pathetic.
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who is celebrating the EU beef?
 
Robspur12 said:
I don’t get some of the inferences on here. It’s the reverse of @Danishfurniturelover parody of the “little englander” line. If you believe in international cooperation and collaboration then you are somehow anti British? Fudge me. I am absolutely certain that nothing in the field of science whether development or DNA sequencing belongs to any one country.
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Hence why we share it...
 
Robspur12 said:
Precisely. I thought you put it well in your earlier post.
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if people want to be smug British people (and there will be plenty) they can celebrate saving the world
They will even get tattoos of it with British bull dogs holding up the globe
Ultimately if we want to show the world we’re a great country we need the world to still be there
What I do find odd is these factories now making the vaccine... what were they before?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
As someone who has worked and currently works in commercial and procurement within the EU rules.... I’d say that the whole thing shows that the EU is too big, too powerful and too arrogant at times
Their lack of flexibility on vaccinations has cost them badly and will cost them lives
And do you know what.... it may be the kind of thing that rocks the boat there
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Without wishing to hijack the COVID thread (maybe this needs moving to politics?), but this is a very interesting point.
I agree it's too big, but I don't agree it's a bad thing in practice. In principle I think it is, in the same way the US, China, USSR (whether it applies to current Russia is a debate of its own) etc. But the existence of those countries makes the EUs size a necessary evil.
Without the EU how would the medium and small European countries fare in the world?
They have massively screwed up on the vaccine procurement - I don't think anyone should use that as a political football, the stakes are too high. But we have to consider what things would look like without the EU for vaccine procurement for medium status countries like Hungary, Portugal, Croatia etc etc and then the tiny countries like Bosnia, Liechtenstein etc.
We are already seeing civil unrest in the Netherlands, a rich and developed country - without the solidarity created by the existence of EU we would see more war and civil unrest and that will especially be true during vaccine procurement when the powerful countries such France, Germany get a headstart (as the UK has proved by getting a headstart).

We will see civil unrest in 2021 across the globe anyway as certain parts of the world get ahead of others in vaccine rollout. My fear is the vaccine won't reduce transmission and countries that rely on tourism will allow vaccinated westerners in - there is always a human life/economy assessment to be made and many tourism heavy poor countries don't have the luxury of the wiggle room economies such as ours do.

The UK will have an opportunity in late 2021 to help those countries less fortune than ourselves. I hope we take it - it could be the good PR we need after the last few years.

Ok, that post expanded more than expected!!
 
Robspur12 said:
Cant blame the EU then for restricting exports of vaccines from their regions.
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If they're doing it to secure supply for themselves then I don't.

Clearly though, this was an ill thought out, snap decision made out of typical EU pettiness. I think our ability to be flexible and put ourselves first here will do the project some damage.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
if people want to be smug British people (and there will be plenty) they can celebrate saving the world
They will even get tattoos of it with British bull dogs holding up the globe
Ultimately if we want to show the world we’re a great country we need the world to still be there
What I do find odd is these factories now making the vaccine... what were they before?
Click to expand...

A mixture of brownfield and greenfield I think. The novavax facility in Stockton on tees was/is a fujifilm factory for example.
 
monkeybarry said:
Without wishing to hijack the COVID thread (maybe this needs moving to politics?), but this is a very interesting point.
I agree it's too big, but I don't agree it's a bad thing in practice. In principle I think it is, in the same way the US, China, USSR (whether it applies to current Russia is a debate of its own) etc. But the existence of those countries makes the EUs size a necessary evil.
Without the EU how would the medium and small European countries fare in the world?
They have massively screwed up on the vaccine procurement - I don't think anyone should use that as a political football, the stakes are too high. But we have to consider what things would look like without the EU for vaccine procurement for medium status countries like Hungary, Portugal, Croatia etc etc and then the tiny countries like Bosnia, Liechtenstein etc.
We are already seeing civil unrest in the Netherlands, a rich and developed country - without the solidarity created by the existence of EU we would see more war and civil unrest and that will especially be true during vaccine procurement when the powerful countries such France, Germany get a headstart (as the UK has proved by getting a headstart).

We will see civil unrest in 2021 across the globe anyway as certain parts of the world get ahead of others in vaccine rollout. My fear is the vaccine won't reduce transmission and countries that rely on tourism will allow vaccinated westerners in - there is always a human life/economy assessment to be made and many tourism heavy poor countries don't have the luxury of the wiggle room economies such as ours do.

The UK will have an opportunity in late 2021 to help those countries less fortune than ourselves. I hope we take it - it could be the good PR we need after the last few years.

Ok, that post expanded more than expected!!
Click to expand...
Hence my sentence also had the words at times...
there is a time and place for big and powerful
And a time and place for being small and flexible
Hungary are showing that now as pet of the EU I believe
 
monkeybarry said:
Without wishing to hijack the COVID thread (maybe this needs moving to politics?), but this is a very interesting point.
I agree it's too big, but I don't agree it's a bad thing in practice. In principle I think it is, in the same way the US, China, USSR (whether it applies to current Russia is a debate of its own) etc. But the existence of those countries makes the EUs size a necessary evil.
Without the EU how would the medium and small European countries fare in the world?
They have massively screwed up on the vaccine procurement - I don't think anyone should use that as a political football, the stakes are too high. But we have to consider what things would look like without the EU for vaccine procurement for medium status countries like Hungary, Portugal, Croatia etc etc and then the tiny countries like Bosnia, Liechtenstein etc.
We are already seeing civil unrest in the Netherlands, a rich and developed country - without the solidarity created by the existence of EU we would see more war and civil unrest and that will especially be true during vaccine procurement when the powerful countries such France, Germany get a headstart (as the UK has proved by getting a headstart).

We will see civil unrest in 2021 across the globe anyway as certain parts of the world get ahead of others in vaccine rollout. My fear is the vaccine won't reduce transmission and countries that rely on tourism will allow vaccinated westerners in - there is always a human life/economy assessment to be made and many tourism heavy poor countries don't have the luxury of the wiggle room economies such as ours do.

The UK will have an opportunity in late 2021 to help those countries less fortune than ourselves. I hope we take it - it could be the good PR we need after the last few years.

Ok, that post expanded more than expected!!
Click to expand...
Excellent post mate. Remainers and leavers often take such extreme positions, it is either all good or all bad. It’s a shame the EU have fudged up on initial procurement and have been absolute arses in the way they have tried to deal with that initial fudge up.

But they will catch up and the vaccination programme is a long game. We have done well with the rollout but have taken more risks than other countries. But the EU making a mistake is not proof that the whole is the terrible behemoth that some posters make out.
 
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