Contingency planning : If Ange is sacked, who should replace him?

[glorygloryeze]

Have the ones who keep on saying we’re 15th

Sorry can you clarify what you're meant to be posting here?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Sorry can you clarify what you're meant to be posting here?

We’re not 15th

 

[Lemonade Money]

Ancelotti is still performing to a high level and hasn't yet tapered off. Not really comparable to Mourinho when we appointed him tbf

On 5 August 2017, Ancelotti started the 2017–18 season with Bayern Munich by retaining the DFL-Supercup, beating out Borussia Dortmund 5–4 on penalties, following a 2–2 draw after 90 minutes; this was the sixth time that Bayern had managed to win the title.[156] However, on 28 September 2017, Ancelotti was dismissed as manager of Bayern Munich, following a 3–0 away loss to Paris Saint-Germain in the club's second group match of the 2017–18 Champions League the night before.[157] After the Paris Saint-Germain match, reports surfaced that Ancelotti had lost the dressing room. It was reported that five senior players wanted Ancelotti out as manager, which Bayern's president Uli Hoeneß later confirmed. Questions were also raised about Ancelotti's tactical setup and team selection against Paris Saint-Germain, when he left several key players on the bench, and one was left to watch the match from the stands.[158]

Napoli​

[edit]
On 23 May 2018, Ancelotti was appointed as head coach of Napoli, signing a three-year contract, replacing Maurizio Sarri in the role.[159][160] On 19 August, he made his return to the Serie A, winning his first match as manager with a 2–1 away victory over Lazio.[161] Napoli suffered a first round elimination in the Champions League, the first time since 2000 that Ancelotti failed to advance from this stage of the competition.[162] Napoli eventually finished the 2018–19 Serie A season in second place, twelve points behind champions Juventus,[163] and reached the quarter-finals of the Europa League, losing out to Arsenal.[164]

On 10 December 2019, Ancelotti was dismissed, despite a 4–0 home win against Genk in their final 2019–20 UEFA Champions League match of the group stage that ensured Napoli's advancement to the round of 16; the club were in joint–seventh place in Serie A, alongside Parma, at the time, and had not won a league game in seven matches.[165] The decision came after a summit with Napoli president Aurelio De Laurentiis that had followed the match that was originally scheduled for 11 December.[166]

Everton​

[edit]
On 21 December 2019, Ancelotti was appointed as manager of Everton on a four-and-a-half-year contract.[167] His first match in charge was a 1–0 home victory over Burnley on 26 December.[168] On 1 March 2020, Ancelotti was sent off after the full-time whistle, following an on-pitch conversation with the referee Chris Kavanagh, who had ruled out a would-be late match-winning goal against Manchester United, due to an offside that was determined by VAR.[169] He was charged with misconduct by the FA the following day.[170] Ancelotti went on to record a total of eight wins, five draws and six losses in the league in his first season with the Blues, as Everton finished in 12th place.[171]

During the close-season, Ancelotti signed his former players James Rodríguez and Allan, along with Ben Godfrey, Abdoulaye Doucouré, Niels Nkounkou and loanee Robin Olsen.[172] Everton started the 2020–21 season with seven consecutive wins in all competitions,[173] and Ancelotti was named September's Premier League Manager of the Month.[174] After a drop in form, a resumption of good results saw Everton end 2020 in fourth place, but knocked out of the EFL Cup, losing 2–0 to Manchester United in the quarter-final.[175] Results for the remainder of the season were mixed, and Everton finished the season in 10th place.[176]

He's definitely good at working with egos, but his stints before Madrid are a little less encouraging.

 

[glasgowspur]

It's one thing to want a manager who is not getting us top 4 or winning the league etc to be fired and a totally different thing to ask why are we playing so poorly that we are now 15th - and have had form that befits such a position for more than a year now.

I makes ZERO sense to say anyone who questions whether our club should be in 15th place and playing so consistently poorly is the type of fan for whom "nothing will ever be good enough". I don't think i have misread this post where you said this

Not sure what you want me to say, that's at least three times I have explained my position and accepted that I could possibly have not expressed my original point clearly.

The original post was not about ange and where he has us.
It was about the next manager and how he would measure up to the fans expectations.
The posts of "all we need is" is in my view very simplistic.
We are a club in transition, IMHO a change in manager is not going to be the panacea some think it will be.
After 18 months in the job will a new manager have us in a better position than Ange has us just now? Almost definitely.
Will he be challenging for the title, again IMHO no, our squad is not ready for that.
Ange is a decent choice to start the transition, for me he's not the man to see it through.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Not sure what you want me to say, that's at least three times I have explained my position and accepted that I could possibly have not expressed my original point clearly.

The original post was not about ange and where he has us.
It was about the next manager and how he would measure up to the fans expectations.
The posts of "all we need is" is in my view very simplistic.
We are a club in transition, IMHO a change in manager is not going to be the panacea some think it will be.
After 18 months in the job will a new manager have us in a better position than Ange has us just now? Almost definitely.
Will he be challenging for the title, again IMHO no, our squad is not ready for that.
Ange is a decent choice to start the transition, for me he's not the man to see it through.

All many are saying is that Ange is under-performing and has been for a long time.
That's a simple position and view to take imo, and has nothing to do with whether we should be top 4 or challenging for the league or not, hence why i called you out on grouping fans that find our current position terrible the same as some fans who might think we should be in the top 4 etc

A rebuild should be possible without dropping below the likes of West Ham and Brentford

 

[thfcsteff]

Ancelotti is still performing to a high level and hasn't yet tapered off. Not really comparable to Mourinho when we appointed him tbf

I think the only moment for Ancelotti was when we (wrongly ;-) ) sacked Poch. That was the moment. Instead we got Dr.clamy...

 

[Raziel]

Was never on the Iraola train and have seen little to suggest that in 18 months the same people demanding him now won't be demanding his sack because we aren't top of league.

Bournemouth is 8th, having beaten the Scum, City, Us, United, draws with Villa & Saudi Sportswashing Machine

Plays a energetic pressing game with a little more defensive solidity (DM sits)
Plays 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1
Got the best out of Solanke
Is on $1M/yr
His pre Bournemouth achievements with Rayo are decent (again history of big results)

Honestly outside of brand brand prejudice I struggle to see a better fit in current or recent PL managers (outside top 6)

 

[Finney Is Back]

Bournemouth is 8th, having beaten the Scum, City, Us, United, draws with Villa & Saudi Sportswashing Machine

Plays a energetic pressing game with a little more defensive solidity (DM sits)
Plays 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1
Got the best out of Solanke
Is on $1M/yr
His pre Bournemouth achievements with Rayo are decent (again history of big results)

Honestly outside of brand brand prejudice I struggle to see a better fit in current or recent PL managers (outside top 6)

If Iraola came in and managed us next season with us having no Europe then I expect he'd take us to a similar place to where Ange took us to last season. Playing in europe with our small squad though I think his high energy football would have exactly the same result that we're seeing now with fatigue and injuries.

 

[Kompakted]

If Iraola came in and managed us next season with us having no Europe then I expect he'd take us to a similar place to where Ange took us to last season. Playing in europe with our small squad though I think his high energy football would have exactly the same result that we're seeing now with fatigue and injuries.

Everyone keeps saying we have a "small squad". We don't. It does my head in. We have a £50m striker deputising for a £60m striker. We have Son, Odobert, Johnson, Kulusevski, Werner and Moore vying for the wide forward/winger slots. Richarlison can also play there. We have Bissouma, Sarr, Bentancur, Maddison, Kulusevski, Bergvall and Gray vying for 3 midfield spots. We have Udogie, Reguilon, Davies as left backs. We have Porro and Spence as right backs. CB is probably the only position I feel the squad feels light in. Other than that if you want the squad to be "bigger" you're looking at making some of those players (or the new players) be 3rd or 4th choice in their position and I'm not sure Ange is actually that big on rotation.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Everyone keeps saying we have a "small squad". We don't. It does my head in. We have a £50m striker deputising for a £60m striker. We have Son, Odobert, Johnson, Kulusevski, Werner and Moore vying for the wide forward/winger slots. Richarlison can also play there. We have Bissouma, Sarr, Bentancur, Maddison, Kulusevski, Bergvall and Gray vying for 3 midfield spots. We have Udogie, Reguilon, Davies as left backs. We have Porro and Spence as right backs. CB is probably the only position I feel the squad feels light in. Other than that if you want the squad to be "bigger" you're looking at making some of those players (or the new players) be 3rd or 4th choice in their position and I'm not sure Ange is actually that big on rotation.

We've got 29 senior players in our squad at the moment. Plus 2 on loan (Gil and Solomon). We've got at least 2 players in every position. Our squad is still big. We've just had about 18 hamstring tears.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We've got 29 senior players in our squad at the moment. Plus 2 on loan (Gil and Solomon). We've got at least 2 players in every position. Our squad is still big. We've just had about 18 hamstring tears.

2 on loan? And 29 senior players
Where are you getting that from?
We have many more on loan for a start
2 in Belgium
1 in Stoke
1 in Leeds
2 at Leyton Orient
Even 1 at Marseille
Plus 2 in Spain

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If Iraola came in and managed us next season with us having no Europe then I expect he'd take us to a similar place to where Ange took us to last season. Playing in europe with our small squad though I think his high energy football would have exactly the same result that we're seeing now with fatigue and injuries.

I agree
But I don’t think we’re standing still on the days building

 

[Raziel]

If Iraola came in and managed us next season with us having no Europe then I expect he'd take us to a similar place to where Ange took us to last season. Playing in europe with our small squad though I think his high energy football would have exactly the same result that we're seeing now with fatigue and injuries.

They don't do the over commit though, he's not asking his CBs/FBs to sprint backward from the opposition half 15 times a game. His DM sits

He's tuned down from Ange (nobody plays like that. other than maybe Bielsa)

Everyone keeps saying we have a "small squad". We don't. It does my head in. We have a £50m striker deputising for a £60m striker. We have Son, Odobert, Johnson, Kulusevski, Werner and Moore vying for the wide forward/winger slots. Richarlison can also play there. We have Bissouma, Sarr, Bentancur, Maddison, Kulusevski, Bergvall and Gray vying for 3 midfield spots. We have Udogie, Reguilon, Davies as left backs. We have Porro and Spence as right backs. CB is probably the only position I feel the squad feels light in. Other than that if you want the squad to be "bigger" you're looking at making some of those players (or the new players) be 3rd or 4th choice in their position and I'm not sure Ange is actually that big on rotation.

GK - Vic, Kinsky, Austin (assuming FF leaves)
FBs - Porro, Spence, Udogie, Reguilon (VDV/Davies as options)
CB - Romero, VDV, Dragusin, Davies (Gray as option with Vuskovic & Philips to be evaluated in summer)
Midfield - Bentancur, Biss, Sarr, Gray, Bergvall, Maddison
Wingers - Johnson, Wilson, Werner
AM/WF - Son, Deki, Richi
CF - Solanke

Honestly it's pretty deep except for LB & RW, with the DM role probably needing an upgrade

And probably only 3 I'd strait out sell.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

They don't do the over commit though, he's not asking his CBs/FBs to sprint backward from the opposition half 15 times a game. His DM sits

He's tuned down from Ange (nobody plays like that. other than maybe Bielsa)



GK - Vic, Kinsky, Austin (assuming FF leaves)
FBs - Porro, Spence, Udogie, Reguilon (VDV/Davies as options)
CB - Romero, VDV, Dragusin, Davies (Gray as option with Vuskovic & Philips to be evaluated in summer)
Midfield - Bentancur, Biss, Sarr, Gray, Bergvall, Maddison
Wingers - Johnson, Wilson, Werner
AM/WF - Son, Deki, Richi
CF - Solanke

Honestly it's pretty deep except for LB & RW, with the DM role probably needing an upgrade

And probably only 3 I'd strait out sell.

There is one CF in your list there
I’d put Johnson as a WF and we know that Kulu is now a midfielder.
But that’s just numbers in different boxes
And when that squad was fit in the majority, we were 5th IIRC

 

[Gutter Boy]

2 on loan? And 29 senior players
Where are you getting that from?
We have many more on loan for a start
2 in Belgium
1 in Stoke
1 in Leeds
2 at Leyton Orient
Even 1 at Marseille
Plus 2 in Spain

29 senior players that have played games for us this season (well 28, but you can't count Whiteman as a junior now he's about 34).
And 2 senior players on loan (and then about 8 youth loans, but they are arguably not at Ange's disposal)

 

[Gutter Boy]

They don't do the over commit though, he's not asking his CBs/FBs to sprint backward from the opposition half 15 times a game. His DM sits

He's tuned down from Ange (nobody plays like that. other than maybe Bielsa)



GK - Vic, Kinsky, Austin (assuming FF leaves)
FBs - Porro, Spence, Udogie, Reguilon (VDV/Davies as options)
CB - Romero, VDV, Dragusin, Davies (Gray as option with Vuskovic & Philips to be evaluated in summer)
Midfield - Bentancur, Biss, Sarr, Gray, Bergvall, Maddison
Wingers - Johnson, Wilson, Werner
AM/WF - Son, Deki, Richi
CF - Solanke

Honestly it's pretty deep except for LB & RW, with the DM role probably needing an upgrade

And probably only 3 I'd strait out sell.

I think seeing it as a formation makes it clearer:

---------------------------------Vicario(Kinsky)

Porro(Spence)-Romero(Dragusin)-van de Ven(Vuscovic)-Udogie(TBC)

-------------------------------Gray(Bissouma)

-------------Kulusevski(Bergvall)-------------Sarr(Bentancur)

-----TBC(Johnson)-------------------------------------Odobert(Moore)

------------------------------Solanke(Richarlison)


+ Phillips, Dorrington, Devine, Donley, Maddison, Son, Yang, Lankshear, Veliz


That's a great basis of a squad for next season. Fill the two gaps with say Dibling and Mitchell. Maybe swap Richy for Delap. And with a decent coach we are cooking.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

29 senior players that have played games for us this season (well 28, but you can't count Whiteman as a junior now he's about 34).
And 2 senior players on loan (and then about 8 youth loans, but they are arguably not at Ange's disposal)

Youth loans I’d agree with if they came through our youth
But we’re talking players we brought in the 2 CBS
Veliz isn’t a kid
I actually forgot scarlet and Abbott in my list

 

[Raziel]

I think seeing it as a formation makes it clearer:

---------------------------------Vicario(Kinsky)

Porro(Spence)-Romero(Dragusin)-van de Ven(Vuscovic)-Udogie(TBC)

-------------------------------Gray(Bissouma)

-------------Kulusevski(Bergvall)-------------Sarr(Bentancur)

-----TBC(Johnson)-------------------------------------Odobert(Moore)

------------------------------Solanke(Richarlison)


+ Phillips, Dorrington, Devine, Donley, Maddison, Son, Yang, Lankshear, Veliz


That's a great basis of a squad for next season. Fill the two gaps with say Dibling and Mitchell. Maybe swap Richy for Delap. And with a decent coach we are cooking.

I think you sell one of Biss/Bentancur & Richi. You release FF, Werner, Reguilon. That's 5 off wage bill

Buy a LB, RW, CF and potentially DM

5 out, 4 in, evaluate 2-3 of the youngsters, push on.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think you sell one of Biss/Bentancur & Richi. You release FF, Werner, Reguilon. That's 5 off wage bill

Buy a LB, RW, CF and potentially DM

5 out, 4 in, evaluate 2-3 of the youngsters, push on.

Fully agree
That’s the kind of business I believe we’re trying to do
I also think we want to sell richy again because of his injury issues and one if the CMs because of their contract
I can see Bissouma going to Italy to play for clame