• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Change of sickness pay policy

scotty220

scotty220

Matthew Etherington
This has really tinkled me off and wondering if any of you have experienced this?

I've been working for my company for over 4 years now, and sick pay has always been paid in full as we're almost always back within a day or two. Around 6 months ago we employed someone new and almost every Friday and Monday they would be off 'sick'. It later transpired that she was infact hungover (we found out from her Facebook page) so the Director had a private meeting with her and said she'll be paid on SSP basis (~£84 a week) from now on. None of us actually found this out until around a week ago when the Director decided to hand us all letters stating that from the 1st June all sick days will be paid on the SSP basis. He's arguing that because of discrimination everyone should have the same pay policies. It just seems so unfair that because of one person taking the tinkle we all get punished. There's only around 12 employees here.

Are there any employment experts who can shed any light on this? Unfortunately I cannot find my original contract of employment so don't actually know what it states regarding sick pay.
 
Full sick pay is at the discretion of the company, legally they only have to pay SSP. If it states in your employment contract however that you will get full pay when off sick then you have a case.
 
SSP from the first day or does it kick in after a few days off? Mine starts after a week off, I need a doctor's note after 2 days off otherwise it becomes unauthorised leave.
 
scotty220 said:
This has really tinkled me off and wondering if any of you have experienced this?

I've been working for my company for over 4 years now, and sick pay has always been paid in full as we're almost always back within a day or two. Around 6 months ago we employed someone new and almost every Friday and Monday they would be off 'sick'. It later transpired that she was infact hungover (we found out from her Facebook page) so the Director had a private meeting with her and said she'll be paid on SSP basis (~£84 a week) from now on. None of us actually found this out until around a week ago when the Director decided to hand us all letters stating that from the 1st June all sick days will be paid on the SSP basis. He's arguing that because of discrimination everyone should have the same pay policies. It just seems so unfair that because of one person taking the tinkle we all get punished. There's only around 12 employees here.

Are there any employment experts who can shed any light on this? Unfortunately I cannot find my original contract of employment so don't actually know what it states regarding sick pay.
Click to expand...

She kept her job despite lying about why she's been missing 40% of the working week for the past 6 months?
 
spitshine said:
Exactly! Incredible why can't she be sacked.
Click to expand...

Is it that she can't be sacked though? I would think doing that would be grounds for being fired in just about every job in just about every country if the bosses wanted to do it. Not only lying about it but missing work cos of fudging drinking for gods sake.
 
spitshine said:
Exactly! Incredible why can't she be sacked.
Click to expand...

My missus works in HR, and to be honest it's got to the point where companies are frightened of sacking staff because the law is weighted so much on the individuals side now.

She comes home furious at times when she has been dealing with people who are, as in the case above, simply taking the tinkle, but just seem to get away with it.

This is what things like human rights has done. Ridiculous, especially when there are people who battle in regardless of how they feel. My wife has not had a sick day in 15 years since she joined the company, and has only taken 1 compassionate day in that time for my dads funeral.
 
Trust me when we found out we were seriously tinkled! The thing is here we all have a 6 month probation period, so why she wasn't let get with that I have NO idea. The whole thing is a joke.

What tinkles us off more is that this wasn't discussed with us at all. We were just handed a one sentence letter as we were leaving the office stating that its now based on SSP. Its not like we're a massive firm based over 10 floors. We're a small open plan office.

I think I need to dig out the original employment contract and have a look.

Does anyone know if its true that if one persons sick pay is based on SSP we all have to?
 
Any significant change to the way you're working is supposed to be consulted, this sounds like a significant change to terms and conditions.
 
The issue I see is that in small office you don't want someone battling on and coming in with the flu, passing it on to everyone and affecting productivity. This will happen if it means lower pay however. I think the boss has been a little over zealous as sick pay is discretionary therefore he can decide if and when he want to pay in full. I operate similarly to the above, over 36 hours and I need a docs certificate, over 10 working days and it goes onto SSP.

I imagine your MD has been shocked by how much full pay he has been paying out per year for people who have a cold etc and over reacted.
 
Thats exactly what's happened Boonie, someone came in with the lurgy last week and three other people have caught it, including me, and feel absolutely awful. I can't afford to have 3 days unpaid at the moment but at the same time my productivity has taken a massive dive.

Thanks for the advice Gordinho, perhaps I'll suggest a staff meeting regarding the change and the Director will come to his senses.
 
Regardless of whether your company is big enough to have a social media policy or not my guess is that communicating to the internet via Facebook that she's been swinging the lead and and claiming sick pay rather than annual leave is gross misconduct at the very least, she's defrauded the company and as a consequence cost her colleagues a considerable perk.
 
Can you guys work from home? If so, then never call in sick just say you are working from home.

Although I find it staggering that every monday and friday she calls in sick and no one monitored that. The Bradford Factor would give her such high scores it would be picked up within a month - if there is any kind of monitoring. Basically the Director fudged up hence its damaged limitations and must be seen to a) learn from lessons and b) to be doing something about it.
 
Crawley said:
My missus works in HR, and to be honest it's got to the point where companies are frightened of sacking staff because the law is weighted so much on the individuals side now.

She comes home furious at times when she has been dealing with people who are, as in the case above, simply taking the tinkle, but just seem to get away with it.

This is what things like human rights has done. Ridiculous, especially when there are people who battle in regardless of how they feel. My wife has not had a sick day in 15 years since she joined the company, and has only taken 1 compassionate day in that time for my dads funeral.
Click to expand...

Yep and this is what i mean when i go on about our liberal laws, i sometimes think people thiink im a nutter or something for the sake of it, im not.

I employ one person full time and two people part time. Im not that well up on the laws because this is all very new to me but the wife tells me that apparently if someone is sick on their holiday and has a sick not then i have to actually give them back those days that they were sick on their holiday, thanks to you guessed it, the EU.
 
japenesegardenlover said:
Yep and this is what i mean when i go on about our liberal laws, i sometimes think people thiink im a nutter or something for the sake of it, im not.

I employ one person full time and two people part time. Im not that well up on the laws because this is all very new to me but the wife tells me that apparently if someone is sick on their holiday and has a sick not then i have to actually give them back those days that they were sick on their holiday, thanks to you guessed it, the EU.
Click to expand...

So you're waffling about something you know little about then.

Honestly, I read some brick on this site at times, half the laws people are whining about are nothing to do with Europe or Human Rights legislation, they're existing laws that have been in place for many successive governments and the reason many HR people aren't able to sack poor employees is because they're poor employees too-incapable of following procedures correctly or less well up on employment law than their employers pay them to be. It's not that hard to sack poor performers if you're not one yourself.

Haven't you grasped yet that the reason you read about abuse of the HRA in the newspapers is because they're news? The exception to the rule. If every single immigrant or deportee was abusing the HRA on a daily basis it wouldn't be news. That doesn't stop the right wing press as portraying excess as normal or insecure people with little sense of self worth believing it though.
 
Last edited:
scotty220 said:
This has really tinkled me off and wondering if any of you have experienced this?

I've been working for my company for over 4 years now, and sick pay has always been paid in full as we're almost always back within a day or two. Around 6 months ago we employed someone new and almost every Friday and Monday they would be off 'sick'. It later transpired that she was infact hungover (we found out from her Facebook page) so the Director had a private meeting with her and said she'll be paid on SSP basis (~£84 a week) from now on. None of us actually found this out until around a week ago when the Director decided to hand us all letters stating that from the 1st June all sick days will be paid on the SSP basis. He's arguing that because of discrimination everyone should have the same pay policies. It just seems so unfair that because of one person taking the tinkle we all get punished. There's only around 12 employees here.

Are there any employment experts who can shed any light on this? Unfortunately I cannot find my original contract of employment so don't actually know what it states regarding sick pay.
Click to expand...

It's a shame that you are being punished by one person abusing the system, but it's the same for everyone. I have never understood the "entitlement" of holiday and sick pay. The fairest system for everyone would be that people are paid per productivity as ultimately an employer/employee relationship is nothing more than a business transaction. For example if you hired a cleaner one day a week to come and clean your home would be happy paying her for the two hours she didn't turn up due to sickness?

The job for life and company men ideals are archaic and belong in the past, and yet so many people seem to think they are owed a living by the government or big industry. I do think sensible companies should offer sick pay as a perk (good companies should always look after their staff), but it's not en entitlement and younger generations especially do take the tinkle with sickness and "stress" leave. This has severely punished those that genuinely could do with the help from their companies.

I run my own company and any new staff I only employ agency workers. and even those I only keep for 51 weeks maximum. It's frustrating for me, but the cost of employment is simply too high and the hoops you have to go through to fire people is ridiculous. For a small business a reason shouldn't even be needed for laying a member of staff off. The only real advantage a small business has over larger competitors is flexibility, but with that removed it's no wonder that the UK has the lowest amount of mid-size companies in Europe. It's impossible to make the step up as "employees" have so many rights. Employers are over a barrel at the moment.

As for your personal predicament, be grateful you have a job. If your company only has 12 employees then its your bosses who are taking all the risks and the positive by product, for you guys, is that you have a job. If you don't like the T&C's of where you work your solution is very very simple. Find another job.
 
Gordinho said:
So you're waffling about something you know little about then.

Honestly, I read some brick on this site at times, half the laws people are whining about are nothing to do with Europe or Human Rights legislation, they're existing laws that have been in place for many successive governments and the reason many HR people aren't able to sack poor employees is because they're poor employees too-incapable of following procedures correctly or less well up on employment law than their employers pay them to be. It's not that hard to sack poor performers if you're not one yourself.

Haven't you grasped yet that the reason you read about abuse of the HRA in the newspapers is because they're news? The exception to the rule. If every single immigrant or deportee was abusing the HRA on a daily basis it wouldn't be news. That doesn't stop the right wing press as portraying excess as normal or insecure people with little sense of self worth believing it though.
Click to expand...

As someone who has just started anew business and is employing people for the first time i know the basis to allow me to operate but im not fully aware of them all, and seeing as the are solictors who specailise in this area it is hardly suprising i know them all.

Gordi why are you and your ilk always harping on about the right wing press? the left wing press is just as bias and doess not report stuff it does not like.

I still feel some anger on your part because of my post about how the left wanted mass immigration to improve their voting base. Something i have read a lot about from severaal different sources including people who were in Blairs government. It is a fact that the left likes mass immigration regardless of whether this coutnry needs it or not.

Your an intelligent guy but like so many of us you allow your politics to get in the way of the real issues.

I was responding to Crawleys post about how employers are scared to sack people because of so many rules. I think the is a feeling amongst a lot of people in the country, people like me who have always gone out and earnt money rather then look for a union to get them some money. That the rules have now gone to far the other way and give employees to many rights. Im thinking about maternity rules as well when i write this.

I am of the opinon that with so many laws and new rights for employees it acts as a barrier to creating jobs and growth, this is UKIP's position and is another reason why i vote for them. I do not expect this post to be replied to by you or the other lefties in anything but a rude way where you accuse me of going on a rant, because when it comes down to it that is all the left ever does. Accuses people who disagrees with them of being right wing fascists, nutters etc.

My respect for the left was never very high but it has all but disappeared now because of their refusal to accept the state we are in this country and that the welfare state is to high, and in bringing it back to this topic, people now feel they can take the tinkle and hide behind employment laws, i do not neeed the right wing press to tell me this, i go out i meet people i know what goes on in this country.

Have a nice evening and if you really think unions are good or are the answwer i suggest you look on google and see what is happening in brighton with the bin dispute, and how the unions are calling shop owners scabs for clearing up the rubbish that the bin men refuse to do. Disgusting but par for the course with the left.

As i said your an intelligent guy gordi, but when it comes to what is going on in this country im afraid you will never beat me in an argument because your left wing position means your never except the hard decesions that must be taken, so you can do what the other lefites on here do and call me a nutter if you like. But i wont be bullied out of like leedspurs by people talking trash.

I recall in the thatcher thread how some on here said she only won one of her elections because of the falklands war and that was why people voted for her, well i voted in that election and i voted for her because i did not want the unions destroying the country and i wanted jobs to be created, but then i have always gone out and earnt my own money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back