Brave New World- thoughts

[glorygloryeze]

Their taking to city for 6 games so far

Beating city in 2 league games isn’t going to win them the league as we saw last year

Beating everyone else will

I think they will run out of steam, their lack of real depth will show through too

But I may be wrong

I don't see how they lack depth these days...plus unfortunately they've started beating everyone else now...can't remember the last time they lost a game to anyone outside the top 6, Swansea in January?

 

[StephenH]

The current Liverpool are possibly the best thing that has happened to this seasons Spurs!
Saying, Look at the work you guys now need to do!

 

[glorygloryeze]

The current Liverpool are possibly the best thing that has happened to this seasons Spurs!
Saying, Look at the work you guys now need to do!

Haha..we can all but wish. Daniel Levy would be pulling his hair out thinking of the expectations (if he had any..)

 

[glorygloryeze]

I must say, i'd rather the way Liverpool are trying to match City (with attacking football) than the Jose way, which is due to implode soon.
Of course, ideally a team/club should have a main philosophy, but be adaptable when needs must to navigate the steps to get to the main prizes.
I can only have some admiration for Klopp and 'Pool in that they are 'having a right old go'...

 

[StephenH]

Haha..we can all but wish. Daniel Levy would be pulling his hair out thinking of the expectations (if he had any..)

Levy will not waste (throwing good money after bad) money ‘trying’ to catch the current Liverpool or City, IF he can’t realistically see we have a chance. He will keep his powder dry and wait.

 

[Spur of the moment]

How many weeks ago did Balague write all that? Because at the start of the season Poch came out and said he'd wiped the slate clean and provided players put their heads down and committed to the cause they would be given their chance.

Now that may well have been because having just signed a new contract he felt there was nothing else for it. His only alternative would have been to renege on his contract but he has said in the past he would never do anything like that, it is a matter of honour with him.

Having said that it's clear he is not a happy bunny right now. It may be that privately he feels his time at Tottenham has run its course and he has no option but to mark time and see what happens. If he CAN manage to squeeze another excellent season out of this team and even manage to win a trophy, then maybe he will feel able to renew his vows so to speak, especially if Levy can clear out the unwanted and get some fresh faces in next summer.

But if as time goes we begin to lose our way then Poch knows Levy's patience will quickly evaporate and that he won't hesitate to pull the trigger.

In that respect we are all on a knife edge right now. Then again in reality we always are. It is a results business after all.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Levy will not waste (throwing good money after bad) money ‘trying’ to catch the current Liverpool or City, IF he can’t realistically see we have chance. He will keep his powder dry and wait.

..and wait, and wait, and wait....

..Pochettino is the best, most consistent manager we've had since Burkinshaw.
We also have become this year the only London club with access to the CL spotlight. If he wasn't to invest now, he never will in a big way in relative terms compared to our competitors. We didn't even need to spend a shedload last summer just spend in a way befitting a club that knows it competitive being a top 6 club but also thankful we have some advantages some of our competitors don't (good core of squad, even if creeking; continuity of coach/coaching style, being only London club in CL etc).

In fact, people talk about how "Spurs lack bottle" or "Spurs lack a winning mentalit.y" etc

I think Levy/ENIC are ultimately the ones that lack all those things tbh...every time a window p) of opportunity opens for us they run back with their tails between their legs and don't take calculated risks

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't see how they lack depth these days...plus unfortunately they've started beating everyone else now...can't remember the last time they lost a game to anyone outside the top 6, Swansea in January?

They have one high quality centre back and a kid, plus Lovett and Matip... the latter 2 are bang average at best. Their full back cover and keeper cover is really poor too IMO

I’d also argue that unless they get llallana fit they only have Sturridge as cover in attack and he is lazy, made of glass and so one footed... sqhauiri could easily be cover there too but he played centre mid this weekend

 

[StephenH]

..and wait, and wait, and wait....

..Pochettino is the best, most consistent manager we've had since Burkinshaw.
We also have become this year the only London club with access to the CL spotlight. If he wasn't to invest now, he never will in a big way in relative terms compared to our competitors. We didn't even need to spend a shedload last summer just spend in a way befitting a club that knows it competitive being a top 6 club but also thankful we have some advantages some of our competitors don't (good core of squad, even if creeking; continuity of coach/coaching style, being only London club in CL etc).

In fact, people talk about how "Spurs lack bottle" or "Spurs lack a winning mentalit.y" etc

I think Levy/ENIC are ultimately the ones that lack all those things tbh...every time a window p) of opportunity opens for us they run back with their tails between their legs and don't take calculated risks

There is no money! Well not enough anyway!
Pragmatism rules! Levy will not as I said throw our money at ‘grand gestures’.
If which I believe, things may well change this coming summer!
Pochettino is coming to natural end of his tenure. This I think is very obvious with his mood over the last few weeks and the player may know this or at least suspect something is up!
Pure conjecture on my part though!

 

[glasgowspur]

Liverpool consistently out spend us yet finish below us so i struggle to see how they are so lauded and held up for us to emulate.
They are no better than us, and they have wasted a lot of money to get to that level.
I can only imagine the meltdown on here if our manager had spent what Liverpool have to 'achieve' what they have.

 

[Mikey10]

Anyone paying attention should not be surprised.
Poch has stated he wants to win the the league or CL.
He has backed this team to do it, they've failed and don't look up to doing it.
Time to move some of them on and try again.
If we don't improve this season the cull will be deeper, poch can be ruthless when he needs to be.

I have a feeling this will be Poch’s last season with us. The publication of the new comments is a clear signal that he feels betrayed, imo.

The difference between us a Liverpool is £150m ish spent on their squad.
If Liverpool does it will be a great achievement, indeed.
If we did it would be a truly unique sporting achievement surpassing even Leicester. Because on our current transfer budget we are probably outside the current top eight in the EPL.

Liverpool brought a huge amount of money in through Coutinho’s sale. Yes, their net spend is still reasonable, but the money from Barca will have helped massively with the big fees they have paid out.

They have one high quality centre back and a kid, plus Lovett and Matip... the latter 2 are bang average at best. Their full back cover and keeper cover is really poor too IMO

I’d also argue that unless they get llallana fit they only have Sturridge as cover in attack and he is lazy, made of glass and so one footed... sqhauiri could easily be cover there too but he played centre mid this weekend

This reminds me of what everyone said about Leicester in their title winning season; and Liverpool’s squad is a hell of a lot better than Leicester’s was.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I have a feeling this will be Poch’s last season with us. The publication of the new comments is a clear signal that he feels betrayed, imo.



Liverpool brought a huge amount of money in through Coutinho’s sale. Yes, their net spend is still reasonable, but the money from Barca will have helped massively with the big fees they have paid out.



This reminds me of what everyone said about Leicester in their title winning season; and Liverpool’s squad is a hell of a lot better than Leicester’s was.

Not really
Leicester had NO pressure
NO other competitions
NO expectation
And no one else trying to beat them
Liverpool crumble under pressure very much like we do
The year of Slippy G
The final last year
The final the year before
The final the year before that one
Sound familiar...

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Depend on how you define stability?

Ongoing funding is critical. Its how the clubs you rightly mentioned are far more robust. If/when they have a bad season as you rightly said they just have had and say don't make CL and maybe buy badly in the transfer windows. They can then just throw money at their problems i.e. change the manager, buy top players, as they have larger financial backing thus can withstand more mistakes on and off the pitch.
We are from what we can see looking in, less likely to withstand a poor window or not qualifying for CL or even worse Europe. When you add this to the expenditure the club is currently undertaking and whichever way Spurs try to spin it, is huge and this increases our vulnerability markedly.
Levy has steered a steady ship over the years and I rate him highly, but he cannot alter the fact that we are not as wealthy as the rest of the top 6.

Baring in mind all of what you have said above......what else can we not do??

 

[glasgowspur]

I have a feeling this will be Poch’s last season with us. The publication of the new comments is a clear signal that he feels betrayed, imo.



Liverpool brought a huge amount of money in through Coutinho’s sale. Yes, their net spend is still reasonable, but the money from Barca will have helped massively with the big fees they have paid out.



This reminds me of what everyone said about Leicester in their title winning season; and Liverpool’s squad is a hell of a lot better than Leicester’s was.

The difference between Liverpool and Leicester is that all teams that would normally being challenging for the title had mares.
The odds of Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea and man doing the same are slim.
And like it or not those are the three teams and managers who know how to win titles.grantedvery unlikely man urd will challenge this year now.

 

[StephenH]

Baring in mind all of what you have said above......what else can we not do??

Use the money we do have wisely which I trust Levy to continue doing.
Get the stadium finished and then see what the the increase in revenue the stadium brings.
I don’t see City and Liverpool being caught by us by increasing spending radically, which I doubt we could do it anyway.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

..and wait, and wait, and wait....

..Pochettino is the best, most consistent manager we've had since Burkinshaw.
We also have become this year the only London club with access to the CL spotlight. If he wasn't to invest now, he never will in a big way in relative terms compared to our competitors. We didn't even need to spend a shedload last summer just spend in a way befitting a club that knows it competitive being a top 6 club but also thankful we have some advantages some of our competitors don't (good core of squad, even if creeking; continuity of coach/coaching style, being only London club in CL etc).

In fact, people talk about how "Spurs lack bottle" or "Spurs lack a winning mentalit.y" etc

I think Levy/ENIC are ultimately the ones that lack all those things tbh...every time a window p) of opportunity opens for us they run back with their tails between their legs and don't take calculated risks

I agree with not throwing good money after bad, and sticking to a plan if that is deemed the best way of helping a club rise up, consistently. I like the fact that we won't be too guided by what other clubs are doing...sure, there has to be a level of opportunism and a level of adaptation from best laid plans, but ultimately, we have to stick to our strategy and hope it bears out over the long term.

But I do agree with you, it is ENIC that choose to not invest in us like Roman or the City oil people do. For better or worse, this is what we have. For better or worse, they decided that they were going to invest in club infrastructure, and have us hopefully move up a level in terms of how we could compete, rather than plough money into the squad and hope beyond hope that we just kept competing every year. For better or worse, they aren't Roman, so we can't ever expect them to be. They never promised they would be, and they are deciding to invest their money how they are. I don't think it is a micro-element of not getting the opportunity for one transfer window or other, it is a macro thing. They will keep to their plan. It is the plan they have been signed up to for 15 years. It is a plan that has so far worked over the long term. I agree with you that it is an ENIC decision not to take those risks, but we have to be more careful. Roman can invest over Chelsea hit a negative spiral to get them back to the top of the table. Clubs that don't have unlimited funds that hit negative cycles have to start selling off players, start failing to attract good replacements, and slide down the league.

Clubs that maintain a good financial footing can usually survive the loss of one or two key players. They know their place and that's part of their strategy - us, Dortmund, Monaco (new Monaco). They replace well and sign well. It may not always be easy, but typically they get back there. It's been important for us to keep on an upward curve rather than a downward one, so that when we get the new stadium finished, we should really be able to exploit it.

I know some people say they aren't talking about investing like Leeds, just doing a little bit more. And I get that. But right now we are set up to where we will probably finish top 6 and won't fall out of that. It would be financially bad for us to invest more to be a consistent top 4 team (in that, we would need to make top 4 every year to cover ourselves) particularly when the other clubs have more money than us. That would be bad strategy. Right now, keeping the powder dry is the smartest thing to do. We just need patience, but I believe that stuff pays off.

As for Poch, maybe he decides the end of this season is it for him, or maybe a full season in the new stadium renews his vigour. I think most of the squad rebuild will take place next summer and that should keep him entertained. I think most managers now are good enough to have their strategy, and if most managers could just focus on that and get what they want easily, they would be successful. But, because of the different macro factors affecting this game - transfer windows, rivals, injuries, contracts, etc - the truly best managers adapt to make the most of the realities of the situation. And sometimes, even then, I think some clubs and some managers just get stuck in a place where if they are consistent with their strategy they can only do so much, and any movement either way neither really helps nor hinders. I think that's where we are right now. I don't think this was the season for us to make the final push - that will come when the new stadium is finished and we are in - but we aren't going to slide out of the top 6 either. We just have to be patient. And I hope Poch is patient too. I can only really see him going to Madrid if he ever goes (United aren't enough of a step up) and two things need to happen. Lopetegui needs to fail there and Poch needs to prove he can successfully manage bigger egos. With all of that in mind, I think we still have a good run with him yet.

 

[glasgowspur]

Use the money we do have wisely which I trust Levy to continue doing.
Get the stadium finished and then see what the the increase in revenue the stadium brings.
I don’t see City and Liverpool being caught by us by increasing spending radically, which I doubt we could do it anyway.

By what metric are Liverpool in front of us that we need to catch them never mind spend big to catch them?
What trophies do they in the last 5 years that we don't?
How many times have they finished above us?
How many CL places in the top have they got more than us?

I asked this question two weeks ago and got one answer, and that answer 'no such metric exists'.

 

[Mikey10]

Not really
Leicester had NO pressure
NO other competitions
NO expectation
And no one else trying to beat them
Liverpool crumble under pressure very much like we do
The year of Slippy G
The final last year
The final the year before
The final the year before that one
Sound familiar...

Time will tell. It’s early days, but what Liverpool and Leicester have in common is momentum and that counts for a lot in football. They’ve a long way to go, but plenty on here underestimate them imo. I wish we were top of the league with a 100% record and a Champions League final under our belts.

In fact, I’d take a Carabo Cup final to start with.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Time will tell. It’s early days, but what Liverpool and Leicester have in common is momentum and that counts for a lot in football. They’ve a long way to go, but plenty on here underestimate them imo. I wish we were top of the league with a 400% record and a Champions League final under our belts.

In fact, I’d take a Carabo Cup final to start with.

Finals you lose fade very quickly from memories

People forget they lost the Europa and league cup finals in the seasons before

For me losing a final of a knock up cup and finishing below a team in the league actually mean stour not as good as that team...

And the league isn’t won after 6 games. They are deservedly where the are and they do have some momentum but they also have the hype and that catches teams out.

 

[DeanoAustin]

By what metric are Liverpool in front of us that we need to catch them never mind spend big to catch them?
What trophies do they in the last 5 years that we don't?
How many times have they finished above us?
How many CL places in the top have they got more than us?

I asked this question two weeks ago and got one answer, and that answer 'no such metric exists'.

Most people can look at Liverpool now and see that their summer purchases have put them ahead of us. They’re a better side and they’ll finish ahead of us this season. I’ve seldom seen a team buy better than they did this summer.

If you’re looking for evidence, rewatch the game at Wembley. They utterly outclassed us.

It’s easy to look back for facts and figures but look at what’s happening in front of your eyes.