Brave New World- thoughts

[glasgowspur]

Most people can look at Liverpool now and see that their summer purchases have put them ahead of us. They’re a better side and they’ll finish ahead of us this season. I’ve seldom seen a team buy better than they did this summer.

If you’re looking for evidence, rewatch the game at Wembley. They utterly outclassed us.

It’s easy to look back for facts and figures but look at what’s happening in front of your eyes.

One game, they did the same to city last season, how did end again?

They pumped us, were the better team no quibble about that from me,
But the thing is during and after that game sky produced a stat, since the 4 - 1 tanking they got at Wembley and they signed VVD they have been on an amazing run, been brilliant, defence has tightened up, scooting for fun blah blah blah.
That was November iirc so plenty if the season left, they still finished behind us, just in front of Burnley, yes Burnley, and despite taking points from city finished 20 odd points behind them.
Yes they have improved, but they had plenty of scope to.
At the moment they are ahead of us and I expect to finish in front of us this season, but not by much.
I certainly don't think they are leaving bus behind.

 

[DeanoAustin]

One game, they did the same to city last season, how did end again?

They pumped us, were the better team no quibble about that from me,
But the thing is during and after that game sky produced a stat, since the 4 - 1 tanking they got at Wembley and they signed VVD they have been on an amazing run, been brilliant, defence has tightened up, scooting for fun blah blah blah.
That was November iirc so plenty if the season left, they still finished behind us, just in front of Burnley, yes Burnley, and despite taking points from city finished 20 odd points behind them.
Yes they have improved, but they had plenty of scope to.
At the moment they are ahead of us and I expect to finish in front of us this season, but not by much.
I certainly don't think they are leaving bus behind.

They finished 1 place and 2 points behind us. They were 21 points and 3 places ahead of Burnley so the inference in your post that they were as close to Burnley as us is disingenuous.

They went on a good run after us but only really tightened up when they signed van Dijk which was January. Furthermore, they tailed off at the end of the season and most would argue that was a result of getting to the CL final. You could also argue that we’re not as good as we were when we went on a great run at the start of the calendar year.

I don’t think Liverpool will win the league. City are formidable and I don’t think Liverpool can cover the goalkeeper, van Dijk or two of the front three at the same time. However, I think they can cover everything else pretty well.

Theyll be in the top 2 and they’ll push City. They’re a decent distance ahead of us right now.

 

[glasgowspur]

They finished 1 place and 2 points behind us. They were 21 points and 3 places ahead of Burnley so the inference in your post that they were as close to Burnley as us is disingenuous.

They went on a good run after us but only really tightened up when they signed van Dijk which was January. Furthermore, they tailed off at the end of the season and most would argue that was a result of getting to the CL final. You could also argue that we’re not as good as we were when we went on a great run at the start of the calendar year.

I don’t think Liverpool will win the league. City are formidable and I don’t think Liverpool can cover the goalkeeper, van Dijk or two of the front three at the same time. However, I think they can cover everything else pretty well.

Theyll be in the top 2 and they’ll push City. They’re a decent distance ahead of us right now.

My bad on the Burnley position, I've totally got that wrong .
Fine, you think Liverpool are much better than us atm, I don't, no problem.
But it is getting very trying being told we are all in denial or deluded when there is nothing to back it up except opinions.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Theyll be in the top 2 and they’ll push City. They’re a decent distance ahead of us right now.

Right now they're flying whilst we are still trying to get back our rhythm. But it's a long season and we are still only six games in. Things can change, players get injured, lose form etc.

We haven't strengthened but you could argue that during the summer we have added three or four top players to our squad. Lamela is looking even sharper, Moura has settled in and is a revelation and Toby and Rose are gradually being reintegrated.

On top of that Winks is still on a trajectory back to full fitness with Wanyama following up. Aurier is at last starting to look the business and the likes of Dier and Kane are showing signs of a return to form. Others are still going through a dip (Eriksen, Son, Sanchez) but once they too come out the other side we should be a formidable outfit once again.

For sure Liverpool will be there or thereabouts but so will we. Let's see how it all pans out.

 

[Moby]

I’m surprised I’m not seeing more made of this in the media. Nothing at all yet which is amazing when you think of how disruptive this update is.

Media seem focussed on i) cows & trains ii) Kane being tired iii) stadium wiring

 

[harr1984]

They finished 1 place and 2 points behind us. They were 21 points and 3 places ahead of Burnley so the inference in your post that they were as close to Burnley as us is disingenuous.

They went on a good run after us but only really tightened up when they signed van Dijk which was January. Furthermore, they tailed off at the end of the season and most would argue that was a result of getting to the CL final. You could also argue that we’re not as good as we were when we went on a great run at the start of the calendar year.

I don’t think Liverpool will win the league. City are formidable and I don’t think Liverpool can cover the goalkeeper, van Dijk or two of the front three at the same time. However, I think they can cover everything else pretty well.

Theyll be in the top 2 and they’ll push City. They’re a decent distance ahead of us right now.

I wouldnt waste your time mate, a lot on here just cant accept Liverpool are a better side than us now - they've spent big so they should be, theyve also spent well. Theyve got so much better defensively, and it has been noted they play differently now - they dont attack intensely and so they wear themselves out over time, they are now choosing their attacks more thoughtfully. We were neck and neck, they improved their squad a lot and we did nothing. Everyone says Liverpool are Man Citys main contenders, but of course according to people on here its just the media sucking them off, it couldnt actually be true

 

[StephenH]

By what metric are Liverpool in front of us that we need to catch them never mind spend big to catch them?
What trophies do they in the last 5 years that we don't?
How many times have they finished above us?
How many CL places in the top have they got more than us?

I asked this question two weeks ago and got one answer, and that answer 'no such metric exists'.

The big one is spending power over us now and the next foreseeable few seasons there is a real gap.
Liverpool are much improved in the last two seasons and we have not invested in the squad which is where the gap has appeared.
They have as you not outperformed us prior to last season which I thought the did with the CL final appearance. As terrible as it was.
But I lumped them with City due to very recent performances. Probably wrong but I always use them as a litmus test for us.
They now look up there with City and definitely better than us.
I do not think we will catch them unless we spend and rebuild our midfield, it feels like we have swapped positions with Liverpool over the past two seasons. Spurs have stalled, the game a couple of weeks ago was a stark example of that.
Liverpool has always been at the very top of my footballing rivalries.

 

[Daisuk]

I’m surprised I’m not seeing more made of this in the media. Nothing at all yet which is amazing when you think of how disruptive this update is.

Media seem focussed on i) cows & trains ii) Kane being tired iii) stadium wiring

Gone under the radar so far, thankfully.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Too many on here going on and on about spending per se. It's not just about spending, but spending well. How many teams have blown multi-millions during the summer only to fair worse than the previous season? Ourselves with the Bale money, Liverpool the Suarez windfall and United practically every fudging window since Fergie left.

Last Summer Chelsea were trumpeting the arrival of Morata and yes, he started impressively but look what happened as the season progressed. Previous big money flops have included Schevchenko and Torres so it's not as though he was a one-off.

This summer we spent zilch but I repeat, with Lamela's return to fitness, Moura now establishing himself, Toby and Rose being reintegrated and others, not least Kane, coming back into form we are potentially stronger all round. Remember for each of those three defeats we were without Lloris. Vorm is a decent shot-stopper but his nervousness seems to transmit right through the defence.

One final point. The bulk of this squad has been together now for several seasons so they know exactly how to play together. The understanding is there and ought to be translate into a significant advantage.

For me the REAL challenge right now is whether Poch can re-motivate and reinvigorate a squad that has returned from the WC jaded and deflated. If he can get us flying again I see no reason why we cannot be right up there competing among the elite for the very biggest prizes.

 

[glasgowspur]

Too many on here going on and on about spending per se. It's not just about spending, but spending well. How many teams have blown multi-millions during the summer only to fair worse than the previous season? Ourselves with the Bale money, Liverpool the Suarez windfall and United practically every fudging window since Fergie left.

Last Summer Chelsea were trumpeting the arrival of Morata and yes, he started impressively but look what happened as the season progressed. Previous big money flops have included Schevchenko and Torres so it's not as though he was a one-off.

This summer we spent zilch but I repeat, with Lamela's return to fitness, Moura now establishing himself, Toby and Rose being reintegrated and others, not least Kane, coming back into form we are potentially stronger all round. Remember for each of those three defeats we were without Lloris. Vorm is a decent shot-stopper but his nervousness seems to transmit right through the defence.

One final point. The bulk of this squad has been together now for several seasons so they know exactly how to play together. The understanding is there and ought to be translate into a significant advantage.

For me the REAL challenge right now is whether Poch can re-motivate and reinvigorate a squad that has returned from the WC jaded and deflated. If he can get us flying again I see no reason why we cannot be right up there competing among the elite for the very biggest prizes.

I don't think we are good enough to challenge city for the league, not over the course of a season. Don't think anyone is.
CL, if we can get out the group then yes I think we can do some damage with the right draw and kind bounce here or there. Romance of the cup and all that, but the league no, it's city's to lose IMHO.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I wouldnt waste your time mate, a lot on here just cant accept Liverpool are a better side than us now - they've spent big so they should be, theyve also spent well. Theyve got so much better defensively, and it has been noted they play differently now - they dont attack intensely and so they wear themselves out over time, they are now choosing their attacks more thoughtfully. We were neck and neck, they improved their squad a lot and we did nothing. Everyone says Liverpool are Man Citys main contenders, but of course according to people on here its just the media sucking them off, it couldnt actually be true

The media suck off whoever is the flavour of the month
It was us last 2 years ago
City last year
Pool this year

We weren’t neck and neck at all as they have finished above us once in 10 years

But now I’d say their abead currently but we have seen it before with them and us and we have seen the league change quickly

I do disagree that they pace themselves better now... I may be wrong but I can’t remember them conceding a goal in the first half this season... but I do remember them really struggling in a second halves of games and that’s because they run out of steam sometimes. Look at our game. They should have been out of site but that should have been a draw in the end if the ref had seen the penalty. Once they concede they start to panic IMO. I don’t get why he hasn’t used Fabinho in those situations as he has the experience to help

 

[Spur of the moment]

I don't think we are good enough to challenge city for the league, not over the course of a season. Don't think anyone is.
CL, if we can get out the group then yes I think we can do some damage with the right draw and kind bounce here or there. Romance of the cup and all that, but the league no, it's city's to lose IMHO.

You are probably right, but City have already dropped points to Wolves and lost at home to Lyon who are struggling in Ligue 1. They are without their player of last season De Bruyne who could be out for several months, so you never know.

 

[StephenH]

For me the REAL challenge right now is whether Poch can re-motivate and reinvigorate a squad that has returned from the WC jaded and deflated.

this

 

[StephenH]

City have already dropped points to Wolves.

City and now United will not be the only ones.
Not looking forward to those matches in the slightest.

Would not be surprised to see Wolves in top 6, definitely have enough for top 8 IMHO

 

[parklane1]

I don't think we are good enough to challenge city for the league, not over the course of a season. Don't think anyone is.
CL, if we can get out the group then yes I think we can do some damage with the right draw and kind bounce here or there. Romance of the cup and all that, but the league no, it's city's to lose IMHO.

Would agree with this, i do expect Liverpool to finish second ( if they can keep going like they are now), as for us we will be in the race for the top four again and as usual i do hope we fair better in the cups.

 

[parklane1]

City and now United will not be the only ones.
Not looking forward to those matches in the slightest.

Would not be surprised to see Wolves in top 6, definitely have enough for top 8 IMHO

I have been impressed by what i have seen of Wolves so far, can they keep it up for the rest of the season though?.

 

[harr1984]

The media suck off whoever is the flavour of the month
It was us last 2 years ago
City last year
Pool this year

We weren’t neck and neck at all as they have finished above us once in 10 years

But now I’d say their abead currently but we have seen it before with them and us and we have seen the league change quickly

I do disagree that they pace themselves better now... I may be wrong but I can’t remember them conceding a goal in the first half this season... but I do remember them really struggling in a second halves of games and that’s because they run out of steam sometimes. Look at our game. They should have been out of site but that should have been a draw in the end if the ref had seen the penalty. Once they concede they start to panic IMO. I don’t get why he hasn’t used Fabinho in those situations as he has the experience to help

We werent flavour of the month, we were the most consistent team for two years so rightly so we was getting the credit, like rightly so Emirates Marketing Project getting the credit last year and rightly so Liverpool are being claimed to be Man Citys only realistic contenders this season (noone is saying they will definitely win the league)

I like your posts, but when it comes to Liverpool you always try and take credit away from them. In the summer you were questioning whether their signings were actually good, I remember you specifically questioning whether Keita would be a good signing for them, this season you say they dont have any leaders - yet they showed they can concede late to PSG yet still come back to win whereas once we concede we've been folding like a pack of cards. Agasinst us they were by far the better team yet far from their best (obviously we werent either) and they won still so these ifs and buts about a penalty are redundant - if theyd taken one or two of their other chances they would have been out of sight. They didnt run out of their steam, and their attacks arent relentless from the get go like they were last season.

Of course they are going to have their own tough patch, but come the end of the season odds are they will finish ahead of us....

 

[harr1984]

I don't think we are good enough to challenge city for the league, not over the course of a season. Don't think anyone is.
CL, if we can get out the group then yes I think we can do some damage with the right draw and kind bounce here or there. Romance of the cup and all that, but the league no, it's city's to lose IMHO.

I dont think anyone is saying much more than that mate - Not many think Liverpool will win the league, just that they are currently 'best of the rest'....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We werent flavour of the month, we were the most consistent team for two years so rightly so we was getting the credit, like rightly so Emirates Marketing Project getting the credit last year and rightly so Liverpool are being claimed to be Man Citys only realistic contenders this season (noone is saying they will definitely win the league)

I like your posts, but when it comes to Liverpool you always try and take credit away from them. In the summer you were questioning whether their signings were actually good, I remember you specifically questioning whether Keita would be a good signing for them, this season you say they dont have any leaders - yet they showed they can concede late to PSG yet still come back to win whereas once we concede we've been folding like a pack of cards. Agasinst us they were by far the better team yet far from their best (obviously we werent either) and they won still so these ifs and buts about a penalty are redundant - if theyd taken one or two of their other chances they would have been out of sight. They didnt run out of their steam, and their attacks arent relentless from the get go like they were last season.

Of course they are going to have their own tough patch, but come the end of the season odds are they will finish ahead of us....

No we were very much flavour of the month as we were the new progressive side and Poch was the new football genius ... As became pep and now Klopp

If you check my comments on keita is actually said if settles and doesn’t get sent off the they have a real player.

I stand by the lack of leaders comment and I haven’t seen any yet. It’s something out fans criticise us for but we have as many IMO if not more, but again it’s an opinion

PSG were atrocious and pedestrian and yet pool almost let that game slip. City would have put them to bed

Pool we’re very solid this weekend I will say

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We werent flavour of the month, we were the most consistent team for two years so rightly so we was getting the credit, like rightly so Emirates Marketing Project getting the credit last year and rightly so Liverpool are being claimed to be Man Citys only realistic contenders this season (noone is saying they will definitely win the league)

I like your posts, but when it comes to Liverpool you always try and take credit away from them. In the summer you were questioning whether their signings were actually good, I remember you specifically questioning whether Keita would be a good signing for them, this season you say they dont have any leaders - yet they showed they can concede late to PSG yet still come back to win whereas once we concede we've been folding like a pack of cards. Agasinst us they were by far the better team yet far from their best (obviously we werent either) and they won still so these ifs and buts about a penalty are redundant - if theyd taken one or two of their other chances they would have been out of sight. They didnt run out of their steam, and their attacks arent relentless from the get go like they were last season.

Of course they are going to have their own tough patch, but come the end of the season odds are they will finish ahead of us....

No we were very much flavour of the month as we were the new progressive side and Poch was the new football genius ... As became pep and now Klopp

If you check my comments on keita is actually said if settles and doesn’t get sent off the they have a real player.

I stand by the lack of leaders comment and I haven’t seen any yet. It’s something out fans criticise us for but we have as many IMO if not more, but again it’s an opinion

PSG were atrocious and pedestrian and yet pool almost let that game slip. City would have put them to bed

Pool we’re very solid this weekend I will say