Believing the Hype?

[Rorschach]

Suarez is the new Diouf

 

[mick cooper]

I'll read my stats, and i'll watch him play and i'll still declare that he is no better then Adebayor.


Adebayor was wonderful against Saudi Sportswashing Machine, that doesn't mean he is an amazing world class striker all of a sudden.


To be qualified as that good you have to be consistent, which Suarez is anything but.


Plus stats win games. last i checked the team with more goals won. So the team that converted the most chances wins. No?

its always good to talk football with a "Football manager" expert

try actually watching what players can do, rather than what they are forced into attempting

of course, it helps if you understand (something about the game) in the first place, no?

and by the way - the team that converts the most chances in a game, does actually win.

 

[raboner]

Suarez is the new Diouf

:ross: :ross: :ross: :-k

 

[Spursalot]

its always good to talk football with a "Football manager" expert

try actually watching what players can do, rather than what they are forced into attempting

of course, it helps if you understand (something about the game) in the first place, no?

and by the way - the team that converts the most chances in a game, does actually win.

I'm not quite sure how serious your being, I have watched what Suarez can do, he can miss lots and lots of chances to score.

I disagree with you, oh therefore i must have gleaned all my knowledge from playing 'football manager', because nobody else can have an opinion different to your own?

Understanding something about the game? how witty, a jab at my intelligence. I could never have seen that one coming.

Finally you've copied exactly the same as what i've said but have set certain words in bold, i'm not quite sure what on earth that is about, as you seem to be agreeing with what i said yet still trying to make some sort of a point about it. You've bolded 'converts' and 'most chances' which is exactly the same as what i have said. Nicely done really.

The only thing i can assume you are picking me up on is my use of tenses, I used the past tense, and you are using the future tense. If you're really picking me up on that then i guess you really have run out of things to say.


You should take your own advice really and watch what players can do instead of basing your opinion on a single performance. You have offered zero evidence to support your theory that Suarez is a world class player, you continue to spout the same point, he scored a hat-trick in a game, he must be amazing. No. There are lots of players who have scored hat-tricks and have not gone on to dominate world football. There is zero evidence to support the idea that he is any better then Adebayor, in fact there is quite the opposite really.

 

[scaramanga]

The day Suarez signs for Spurs is a day I put my support for the club on hold until he has gone. Horrid, horrid player.

For once, something we can agree on.

 

[scaramanga]

Suarez' attitude will always keep him from reaching his obvious potential.

Rather cheat dive and squeal than play football

Hasn't done Ronaldo any harm. Suarez is still a **** though.

 

[mick cooper]

I'm not quite sure how serious your being, I have watched what Suarez can do, he can miss lots and lots of chances to score.

I disagree with you, oh therefore i must have gleaned all my knowledge from playing 'football manager', because nobody else can have an opinion different to your own?

Understanding something about the game? how witty, a jab at my intelligence. I could never have seen that one coming.

Finally you've copied exactly the same as what i've said but have set certain words in bold, i'm not quite sure what on earth that is about, as you seem to be agreeing with what i said yet still trying to make some sort of a point about it. You've bolded 'converts' and 'most chances' which is exactly the same as what i have said. Nicely done really.

The only thing i can assume you are picking me up on is my use of tenses, I used the past tense, and you are using the future tense. If you're really picking me up on that then i guess you really have run out of things to say.


You should take your own advice really and watch what players can do instead of basing your opinion on a single performance. You have offered zero evidence to support your theory that Suarez is a world class player, you continue to spout the same point, he scored a hat-trick in a game, he must be amazing. No. There are lots of players who have scored hat-tricks and have not gone on to dominate world football. There is zero evidence to support the idea that he is any better then Adebayor, in fact there is quite the opposite really.

Oh fantastic, so you quite happily rip along poking fun at posters, being Mr Smarty pants and trying to be witty, but then get mega serious when someone replies in the same vein.

You might like to rethink that strategy, because its not a good one.

I have no problem with people having a different opinion to mine, but relying on stats, is more or less a case of saying that someone else told me, that a guy he knew, said he had heard that................. all I'm saying is look at what Suarez did to score that hattrick. Compare it with your skillset, remind yourself of what you have seen other strikers do and then interpolate the combined knowledge - personal, with knowledge visual, and work out how good what he did actually was. He didn't learn that for the day, its what he can achieve, with the right opportunities.

My point is dont dismiss me with faceless facts, they dont tell the whole story - look at what he did and appreciate it for what it took to execute it. If you still don't see it, then try watching top class football for 40 years - and you might get it. And don't dismiss me as a fool, years of experience of seeing the best is an education that you cannot buy, you can only hope to live long enough to gain it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to gain experience, you just have to live long enough, and have enough brains to learn from what you see.

as for what I highlighted, it was to point out the weakness in your killer argument. Think it through again, context and tense aside, your statement refutes the point you were trying to make.

I dont want to continually rail against you, or lock horns at every opportunity. If you tried to offer a shadow of humility in your posts, you might actually start interesting discussions from the start. I'm prepared to concede ground if you are. I'm sure we can both do internet tinkling contests all day long.

 

[raboner]

Oh fantastic, so you quite happily rip along poking fun at posters, being Mr Smarty pants and trying to be witty, but then get mega serious when someone replies in the same vein.

You might like to rethink that strategy, because its not a good one.

I have no problem with people having a different opinion to mine, but relying on stats, is more or less a case of saying that someone else told me, that a guy he knew, said he had heard that................. all I'm saying is look at what Suarez did to score that hattrick. Compare it with your skillset, remind yourself of what you have seen other strikers do and then interpolate the combined knowledge - personal, with knowledge visual, and work out how good what he did actually was. He didn't learn that for the day, its what he can achieve, with the right opportunities.

My point is dont dismiss me with faceless facts, they dont tell the whole story - look at what he did and appreciate it for what it took to execute it. If you still don't see it, then try watching top class football for 40 years - and you might get it. And don't dismiss me as a fool, years of experience of seeing the best is an education that you cannot buy, you can only hope to live long enough to gain it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to gain experience, you just have to live long enough, and have enough brains to learn from what you see.

as for what I highlighted, it was to point out the weakness in your killer argument. Think it through again, context and tense aside, your statement refutes the point you were trying to make.

I dont want to continually rail against you, or lock horns at every opportunity. If you tried to offer a shadow of humility in your posts, you might actually start interesting discussions from the start. I'm prepared to concede ground if you are. I'm sure we can both do internet tinkling contests all day long.

=D>

well said that man!

 

[Spursalot]

Oh fantastic, so you quite happily rip along poking fun at posters, being Mr Smarty pants and trying to be witty, but then get mega serious when someone replies in the same vein.

You might like to rethink that strategy, because its not a good one.

I have no problem with people having a different opinion to mine, but relying on stats, is more or less a case of saying that someone else told me, that a guy he knew, said he had heard that................. all I'm saying is look at what Suarez did to score that hattrick. Compare it with your skillset, remind yourself of what you have seen other strikers do and then interpolate the combined knowledge - personal, with knowledge visual, and work out how good what he did actually was. He didn't learn that for the day, its what he can achieve, with the right opportunities.

My point is dont dismiss me with faceless facts, they dont tell the whole story - look at what he did and appreciate it for what it took to execute it. If you still don't see it, then try watching top class football for 40 years - and you might get it. And don't dismiss me as a fool, years of experience of seeing the best is an education that you cannot buy, you can only hope to live long enough to gain it. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to gain experience, you just have to live long enough, and have enough brains to learn from what you see.

as for what I highlighted, it was to point out the weakness in your killer argument. Think it through again, context and tense aside, your statement refutes the point you were trying to make.

I dont want to continually rail against you, or lock horns at every opportunity. If you tried to offer a shadow of humility in your posts, you might actually start interesting discussions from the start. I'm prepared to concede ground if you are. I'm sure we can both do internet tinkling contests all day long.

I'm going to ignore the rest so we don't start a tinkling contest, but i have read it and understand your points. Not to say i agree with them. As for being smarty pants and poking fun, looking at your posts on the forum it's something you also tend to do.


The weakness in my argument is that you have to convert more chances then the opposition to win? And Suarez doesn't convert a very high number of chances?

That sounds more like a strength to my argument than a weakness.

 

[mick cooper]

and for the absence of any doubt

I will happily admit to a strong desire to spending a long time with with Mr Suarez in a locked room, with a baseball bat in my hands.

But I can't help but admire the footballing skills that he does possess, when he stops cheating, whining and conning referees for long enough

 

[Spursalot]

and for the absence of any doubt

I will happily admit to a strong desire to spending a long time with with Mr Suarez in a locked room, with a baseball bat in my hands.

But I can't help but admire the footballing skills that he does possess, when he stops cheating, whining and conning referees for long enough

That is fine, I am of the opinion that he is currently a mid-table striker at best. I can accept your opinion and i think we can both accept that we are not going to change each others mind on this matter.


And for the record, i seriously find it very hard to tell if you are actually joking or not, the post above on this page i assumed you were being totally serious. So honestly, if you were joking i apologise for going off on one.

 

[mick cooper]

I'm going to ignore the rest so we don't start a tinkling contest, but i have read it and understand your points. Not to say i agree with them. As for being smarty pants and poking fun, looking at your posts on the forum it's something you also tend to do.


The weakness in my argument is that you have to convert more chances then the opposition to win? And Suarez doesn't convert a very high number of chances?

That sounds more like a strength to my argument than a weakness.

Yes I do poke fun, but only at risible posts.

I don't know what to say, but all I can suggest is that you read what you post actually says, rather than what you were trying to say.

I do get your point, you think he needs 4 more opportunities than (aguero - say) to score the same number of goals. But that doesn't take into account the quality of the opportunity or the "ease" of converting it. From what I have seen most of what Suarez gets is half chances and scraps, Aguero tends to be fed on a plate, with lobster. I believe that Aguero is a more gifted out and out striker though.

last strike at making a point. Your post said " So the team that converted the most chances wins. No?

which suggested in the context that you used it (versus most goals wins) that it is a risible idea (the use of No?)

You wrote it, it was your choice of wording. But thats how it reads.

Had you written it in gramatically and contextually correct English, it would have made the sense that you intended. I did know which point you were trying to make, but as you had no intention of conceding ground, I saw no reason to do so either.

I stand by my point about relying on stats though, irrespective of a wasteful semantics spat

 

[mick cooper]

That is fine, I am of the opinion that he is currently a mid-table striker at best. I can accept your opinion and i think we can both accept that we are not going to change each others mind on this matter.


And for the record, i seriously find it very hard to tell if you are actually joking or not, the post above on this page i assumed you were being totally serious. So honestly, if you were joking i apologise for going off on one.

and its my belief that he would have converted a lot more chances, and improved his ratio had he been leading our line, or being a part of our strike force

and yes I was tinkling around, but also trying to make a point

fighting fire, with fire - perhaps?
No?

 

[Spursalot]

and its my belief that he would have converted a lot more chances, and improved his ratio had he been leading our line, or being a part of our strike force

and yes I was tinkling around, but also trying to make a point

fighting fire, with fire - perhaps?
No?

Perhaps. It is possible, though i would not wish for another short on the ground striker for our team. We don't really make the most of crosses as it is with Adebayor trying to lead the line, which is amusing after he scored two of them against us in the CL quarter final.

At the time i was not no, i was attempting to have a discussion about Suarez. Later on i may have done.

Sorry about that.

 

[Modric THFC]

We don't need another striker who can't play upfront on his own and is inconsistent and unreliable. Suarez is like Defoe a striker who can look amazing one game and be anonymous the next. But Defoe generally puts away his chances. Suarez misses make Adebayor look prolific.

 

[Fuego]

Are we starting to believe our own hype?

To put things mildly, the attitude of the vast majority of 'fans' throughout this board over the last few weeks has been nothing short of disgraceful.

In my opinion, the perspective of some of our fans reminds me a lot of Gareth Bale's current attitude whilst playing. He has begun to believe his own hype, his ridiculous drifting inside and cluttering up our play is really getting on my norks. You're not C.Ronaldo son! He should stay on the left and run the fullbacks, that is when he's at his most effective, it's clear to all. He should do what's best to support his TEAM.

Shock horror. Harry tells him to fudging do that. He also said he wanted Lennon to do it. I heard him say it on a Talksport interview. I don't have the link, but he fudging said it. Someone please back me up if you heard him say it.


I know it's frustrating as fudge when Bale does that, but he's listening to his manager's instructions. Some of us are tinkled that the great motivator couldn't motivate us for half the season and his tactical fudge ups have left us with one of the best left wingers in the world playing anywhere but the left fudging wing. We saw us park the bus at Sunderland, us play 4-4-2 in a bunch of situations that kicked our ass for it and a supreme fudge up against Norwich (another time we played 4-4-2, but at least it was against a 4-4-2, we just didn't have a DM...)


I just want us to try, to compete, to not completely suck... I don't need us to win the league, I just need us to not go through half a season in relegation form. If Harry suddenly becomes better at tactics and we compete, fine... If he gets his motivational skills back and we play well in spite of bad tactics, fine... But to fail on all counts as manager and act the way Harry acts is not fudging on.

Accept some responsibility or accept that there was a dip in form for more than one game... I'm not expecting him to come out and slate the players or anything, but don't just deflect everything with "that's like the George Best joke, when he's standing there with Champaigne", "they've never had it so good", "Chelsea had Torres on the bench and he's expensive, despite having been brick for a couple of years..."


I can take losing, I can take failing, we're all Spurs fans, we should all be used to "WTF, how did we lose to a relegated side?" But to let our best chance slip away is frustrating. There are so many really frustrating things about this season that it's unbelievable.

We had an amazingly bad start to the season against the Manchester clubs,

An insane amount of injuries.... We were the better team for 60 minutes at OT, they scored, we switched to 4-4-2 and we lost 3-0. Losing at OT isn't new, we were the better team for 60 minutes without playing 4-4-2 though and we didn't even have Ade or Parker then. I think we had Livermore in defence too?


Emirates Marketing Project was a complete disaster. Harry made a tactical mess of that one too, even the people writing minute by minute reports were mocking him at half time. But again, no Parker and no Ade. This should definitely have been better though.

however from there we went on an absolutely superb run, the best run in many, many, many seasons.

Has it occured to some of you fellas however that perhaps we were over-achieving? Harry Redknapp has given our club some of our greatest memories in recent time, champions league qualification, a superb run in the consequent campaign and here we are again this season, in prime position to qualify for champions league. Some of you act like it is our GHod-given right to finish top four. Are people for real?

We might have under achieved against the Manchester clubs. It's hard to argue those results were over-achieving or even performing to an average standard.

I don't think I'd have taken it that far, but when we're 10 points ahead of the worst Arsenal team under Wenger, a team that had their worst start to a season for 58 years, a team that sold its captain and best player, his replacement, their left back and had one of their key midfielders injured, we should have done better... To top it off, they loaned out a bunch of other players and got hit with even more injuries as the season went on. At that stage, I should be able to get "2011-2012, Spurs finished above Arsenal" tattooed all over my body, we should not be letting that slip. If Chelsea suddenly had Torres playing as he did for Liverpool and all their players had put on league winning form then that would be one thing, but that Arsenal squad is fudging nothing compared to the invincibles.... By contrast, this was our best Spurs squad since we won the double, over 50 fudging years ago... Is it overachieving to finish above the worst Arsenal side under Wenger with our best side for over 50 years? Is it overachieving to finish above fudging Saudi Sportswashing Machine?

There's a huge difference between expecting to win the league and expecting to finish above a weak team that had its end of season party after being knocked out by Milan in the round of 16 and getting knocked out by Sunderland in the F.A Cup. Their season was over before we even played them on that day. I didn't need us to keep that 10 point gap, just not risking 6th would be something...



There's a huge difference in expecting to not be in this situation after having 3rd wrapped up and expecting to win the league... 3rd is not winning the league. The two clubs going for the league are tons of points ahead of us... We're 10 points ahead of Everton and 21 points behind 2nd. Are we only 10 points better than a club that sold 2 of their best players to us and one of their best players to Arsenal? Is the difference between us and 2nd over twice the difference between us and a club that doesn't spend any money and doesn't bother starting to play until January? This is not overachieving. We're not all complaining about finishing 2nd, we're just slightly tinkled that we had a huge opportunity to have a great season (3rd would be amazing for us and we almost had it) and we might not end up in the CL from being a shoe-in for it a couple of months ago.

Relegation form is not overachieving.


Even those that have never liked Harry are grateful for him getting us CL football, going through that excellent CL run, etc. But I'm grateful for Ramos for winning us our last cup, it doesn't stop me from thinking his final season's form was not good enough. We massively overachieved to beat Chelsea in the final, it'd be like beating Emirates Marketing Project in a final now.... But if the club is seriously underachieving, the manager takes like blame, as he takes the credit when things go well.

After the win against Blackburn; third position is nowhere near out of the question and we are still playing some superb football. This is something we should be proud of, not stabbing the manager in the back.

After two, i repeat, TWO reasonably poor performances against teams battling for their lives to survive relegation and the vast majority of this board has absolutely turned on OUR manager, who, let's not forget has provided us with some thoroughly amazing memories in recent times. The best in decades.

I'm stabbing him in the front. His results, his attitude, team performances, etc... I don't have an issue with not being his number one fan right now. I'm not protesting in my spare time and singing "Harry out", he does have a few games to rescue this season. But in the summer, if he doesn't get CL football, I am fully expecting Levy to say "Thank you Harry for everything you've done, you should probably retire now".


Norwich were safe. Sunderland were safe. Everton first half were safe. etc, etc, etc. I blame the ref for the F.A Cup fudge up, even though I hope Harry has learned 4-4-2 when chasing a game might lead to getting even more fudged. (I can't blame him for chasing a game, but he does it all the time and we always get fudged, he needs to pick his moments.) We had a really fudging awful run, he failed to motivate his players and failed tactically on top of that... I could always take the tactical failures if he did the motivating thing he was supposed to be good at. But since he starting batting his eyelashes at the F.A, he has had issues there.

But yes, we didn't do well against a relegation threatened side.... They might be battling for their lives to survive, but we should have been battling for CL places. The excuse that "they wanted it more" is not an excuse. They can battle all they like, a motivational manager cannot possibly say "they wanted it more", fudge that. That's not an excuse. It is the manager's job to make sure we always want it more. (Yes, all 20 managers will be trying to make their team want it more, motivate them with titles, CL football, staying in the league, finishing above a rival, pride, whatever... But all managers should be able to make their teams fight.)

So we either lost to a relegation team because they wanted it more (bad) or we lost to a relegation team despite wanting it as much as they did (also bad)... If Mancini loses to QPR on the final day of the season and says "they were battling to avoid relegation", everyone will point out that he should have been fighting to win the title.


You did miss the bad performance against Arsenal though, that was a Harry special. The vast majority of this board said "we tried 4-4-2 at WHL and nearly got fudged, let's not try that at their place"... We tried it at their place...

There are plenty of other bad results, bad performances or both.. The Man United game was a good performance by us though, so I didn't go apebrick at Harry for that one.

 

[Fuego]

The abuse Redknapp received when the 'rumours' of the Adebayor rift and the England job acceptance emerged was thoroughly sickening. Remember these 'rumours' are simply that. There's no rift with Ade, Levy didn't turn down the FA. People are just looking for an excuse to kick the brick out of our greatest manager in GHod knows how long.

I haven't randomly insulted Harry with every unpleasant name I could think of, I feel I have been slightly more respectful to him than he has been to us lately, even if I haven't been super nice when talking about him. But I've tried to describe my issues with him, without forgetting that he got us CL football and that he did very well in that competition. I even remembered how many times he has taken us to Wembley. But I'm at the point now where I feel he should probably retire in the summer. If England want him in 2 years, he can come out of retirement for that, but moving on before things got ugly would be best. He will be loved by many of the fans and can have a Guardiola style exit... There is some batman quote that would probably fit here... "Die as a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villian" or something...

Get behind the TEAM. Let's fudging finish third.

I've always been behind the team, we have to hope for a massive favour and that we get results ourselves, but it's possible, however unlikely.




-----------------------

Ohhh so you're clearly one of them who was jizzing during champions league and is now a hater?

1. Bale requested to play his new role, admitted as much in an interview, i wouldn't be surprised if he demanded it.

Your OP was reasonable, that's just departed. You can't accuse people of "jizzing during Champions League and now being a hater" when you have bitched about Bale's ego and now suggest he demanded a role Harry wants to give Lennon...

When Bale destroyed Inter, were you jizzing during Champions League? Are you now being a hater?


------------

2. I worry when the attitude can have a direct effect on the team i support

I won't be at Bolton, if I were, I still wouldn't boo my own team when they need encouragement... So the only way it might have a direct effect on the team is if someone takes a few hours to read ramblings on a forum, that person would have to somehow find my view of Harry to be unsettling.... You on the other hand are free to say whatever you want about Bale.

--------

4. flimflam. UTD, City, Chelsea, Arsenal(hurts i know) all have better squads than us. Liverpool are probably just about equal and Everton etc aren't far behind us.

United started the season with midfield options of Giggs, Park, Cleverly (injured for most of it), Carrick.... Those were CM options.. Park and Rafael played as CMs in one game. They strengthened in January by bringing a 38 year old back, and we weakened in the same window.

City have a better squad, no question.

Chelsea have: Hilario? Fererra, Bosingwa, Alex (now Cahill), Bertrand, Miereles, Essien, Romeu, Torres, Malouda and either Kalou or Sturridge as their 2nd 11 (the other one would be in the team, Anelka would have started in the second team)... Romeu was a complete unknown, the RB sucks, Bosingwa sucks as RB or CB... Alex/Cahill is good cover, the GK isn't as good as our second GK... Essien used to be one of their best players, Miereles is a good squad player, Romeu was unknown but isn't bad, Torres spent years in form that made Emile fudging Heskey look like Messi and Kalou fudging sucks, but Sturridge was good and started for them early in the season. Anelka moved on in January as did Alex but they brought in Cahill.


Our second team when the first window closed was:

Cudicini

Corluca, Gallas, Dawson, Rose

Kranj, Hudds, Sandro, Pienaar

Defoe, Pav.

Subs: Livermore, Bassong, GDS (Gomez would be a bigger name for a third sub, but I don't remember someone offhand that would fit this list).

Anyway, I'm fairly confident that we compete for Chelsea there.




Arsenal, fudge right off. What gonads is that?


Their game against United at OT ended up 8-2... Wenger went out and actually spent some fudging money because his squad at that point consisted of 16 year old boys. He didn't have a fudging squad.


Here is their second XI:

Almunia or Fabianski, I think Fabianski was Wenger's choice as Almunia was loaned to West Ham, but they're both clowns.


Jenkinson, Mertesacke (bought on deadline day), Djouru, Santos (bought on deadline day too, I think)

Ramsey (Whiltshere is injured but would be in their first team), Diaby, Frimpong or Coquelin (Frimpong was loaned out to Wolves, so I don't know how Wenger feels about him.)

The Ox (Wenger doesn't start him), Chamakh, Gervinho.


Subs: Squillachi, Miquel, Park (Wenger doesn't play him).

That's assuming Benayoun makes the starting line up. How the fudge can you compare our second team with this brick? Wenger even bought 5 players in the transfer window this year and the squad still fudging sucks. Have you actually watched Arsenal this season? Do you know anything about even half of those players?

You can fudge right off with Arsenal's squad being better than brick. The only person in that entire fudging list that is actually a good player is the Ox... He's only in that reserve lineup because Wenger prefers Walcott and Benayoun... How the fudge am I supposed to even take a side like that seriously? Arsenal's squad is brick. Their first 11 when fully fit (including Wiltshere) might be Premier League standard, but their second XI is 6/5 made up of people that wouldn't even get into relegation side first teams.

Compare that to ours... Corluca - Bayern Leverkuson, started against Barca, they love him. Pienaar - went back to Everton, is a superstar there. Every single player except Rose is likely to be a star player in a PL side. Rose would still get into PL sides, but wouldn't be a superstar.

-------

Liverpool being equal is quite funny, Everton being not far behind us is funny too... Everton are ahead of Liverpool, one of our players is one of the driving forces behind that... Liverpool are shameful. I'm not even going to bother going through their entire second XI, because it's pointless... This is a team with Shelvey, Charlie Adam, Spearing, Andy Carroll, Downing and other clowns like that in the fudging starting XI. Charlie Adam is actually injured, so maybe I'm being a bit unfair, but WTF? Are you actually an Arsenal supporter that is midway through a trolling attempt?

No Spurs fan could say any of that stuff with a straight face.

Why? Suarez is better than any forward we have.

Agger and Skrtel are a far more consistent and reliable central pairing than any we have.

Johnson is a better RB than Walker, Enrique is probably a little worse than Ekotto..

Lucas is better than Parker.. Bale and Lennon admittedly are streets ahead of any Liverpool wide player, but that's about it.

Modric is better than any playmaker they have. But Gerrard can be amazing on his day and Aquilani is on his way back, reportedly.

Liverpool have a strong squad and pretty good depth. Pretty deluded if you argue otherwise.

Oh, you were talking about first teams? Not squad depth?

Suarez - Disagree. Ade has more goals, more assists, can play up front on his own... Defoe is probably better at scoring goals, which seems to be Suarez's strength, but he hasn't done that very well this season.

As a pair, yes... We don't have a pair that play together like they do. But Kaboul and one of them seems fair, I'm sure plenty of people would take Kaboul and another of our CBs though.

Johnson played RB for England one of the last times Lennon played for England... Lennon spent the match at RB. Johnson is fudging awful defensively. Enrique started better than BAE, but has gone to hell now.

Lucas is probably the best DM in the league, so sure. Yes, our wingers are significantly better than their wingers.

I'd take Modric over Gerrard, he hasn't been quite right since these injuries anyway. Aquilani was a fudging failure the first time for 20-25 mil or whatever he cost. If he's back to join the rest of the overpriced players they've signed recently, they're going finish midtable with a 200 mil+ squad, well, they're going to do that with or without him.

You forgot their goalkeeper, who is good with his feet and a pretty good goalkeeper, I'd have him too... But I still make us the stronger first team. Even out of the players I'd have from Liverpool.. Lucas is their best player, but the drop to Parker or Sandro is not that bad... The drop from Bale to Downing is fudging epic.

I do not believe that many other Managers would have been able to achieve it.

Jol was one game away from it when Lasangate happened... Arsenal were losing and Henry scored to save them.... Yes, the Arsenal team had Henry, they actually had players and were a good team, not just a shadow of what they used to be. The top 4 was actually made up of 4 very good teams then. We're behind an Arsenal team that fudging sucks now and this is a far better squad than we had under Jol. Jol used to take off Berbatov and Lennon when we were winning by a couple of goals because those were his two star players. Lennon is better now and he's not even mentioned when people name our best players. He's the one people replace with Hazard/Mata/Silva/etc in their potential lineups.

No one is saying what Harry achieved was easy, but it wasn't like he won the league with Wigan.

 

[Fuego]

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- Everton made 4th once, in a time when they had consistantly been in the 5th-6th position previously and without City/Barcodes/Spurs in that challenge. Harry could potentially make it twice in 3 years against more teams in the mix, and tougher teams.

The Liverpool they beat to 4th won the CL... Won it by playing, not doing a Chelsea and getting outplayed in every round, that Liverpool team was so much better than Everton... Chelsea have underachieved and if they win the CL but we finish above them, then finishing above Chelsea will be an achievement people remember... But Arsenal fudging suck compared to the year Everton finished 4th, what's our excuse there?

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- Yes, I have seen Everton play, it fudging horrible, and they are a dirty team.
- And when Everton got to CL, got to Cup Semis/Finals, they have always bottled it
- And look at their record against Pool, outright dreadful

They completely outclassed Fulham beautifully, the same Fulham that just won at Anfield... There was about a week between those matches. 4-0 to Everton and 0-1 to Fulham... Everton played amazing football, they were even showboating, Phil Neville did a couple of backheels, they were fudging with Fulham.



Everton had a far harder CL qualification game than we had and we nearly fudged that up.

This year, they had someone sent off for the most ridiculous thing... The red card was rescinded, that fudged them up at home to Liverpool... Away to Liverpool they rested people for the next cup match (which they won)... In the cup, they went 1-0 up and ended up losing to a very very very late Andy Carroll goal...


They beat City, Chelsea, us at home.. They've yet to play Saudi Sportswashing Machine at home... They got a draw at OT when United were in title mode and they had one or two offside goals ruled out against Arsenal (this was after the Sunderland cup match, I think)....

Compare that to us:

City lost twice.
United lost twice.
Arsenal won one, lost one.
Chelsea drew twice.


But even going back to that cup... We may have got screwed by a ghost goal, but we didn't exactly come out of our semi final against Chelsea looking particularly good.

Jol is a worse manager but fans cut him a lot more slack

I still really really like him. Besides, he's getting us CL football this year.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/apr/30/harry-redknapp-england-tottenham?newsfeed=true

Holy fudge. Thank you for that article. Wow.

WTF? Harry had some PR tips? Talking about squad depth, the England job being a distraction, etc. Holy fudge.

Well, at least Harry isn't still trying to please the F.A...

We have a spacegoat and Harry has said something about having a squad... Yay, it's like he listens to things.

If he stops alienating Spurs fans and starts winning away games, these threads will have far less content. It's not like all is going to be forgiven, but yay for progress, even if it is PR advice masked as progress.

The next step would be not loaning all the cover out though...

. Look at the manager threads. It's Mourinho next or nobody at all. Doesn't matter that he's already at the biggest club in the world, he'll leave and come to Spurs tomorrow.

In fairness it was a "who do you want" thread... Messi could be on that list along with some very good but actually realistic strikers and Messi would win the poll... Everyone going for realistic options would be split between the other choices.

Also, when that thread was made, Mourinho was talking about leaving Madrid and coming back to London.... We were looking like we might finish 3rd, about 10 points from the top 2... Being able to give Mourinho 75 mil to spend to make up for 10 points with the Mourinho factor seemed like an offer we could make without being laughed at.

Yes, he's the Lionel Ronaldo Maradonna Pele of managers, but he said he wanted to return to England, so his choices were limited. It's not as crazy as it looks now that we might finish 6th.

(devils advocate brick BTW, I'd happily sign Suarez - anyone who can bag a hattrick like he did at the weekend is good enough for me, and if he can sing like Freddie Mercury as well as look like him - double bubble!)

Regardless of him as a person, we have Ade up top... Suarez would find it hard to play as a lone striker. He has scored fewer goals than Ade too, with fewer assists.

consistently playing well or consistently scoring goals ? Suarez has consistently been Liverpools best player this season (not saying much i guess )

Lucas.

He played, Liverpool got a draw with City which stopped their 100% league record... Liverpool were undefeated at home for ages, Liverpool looked weak, but in the group of big clubs challenging for Europa league....

He got injured and they had to play Spearing... Spearing is a fudging failure, he got sent off in his first game replacing Lucas. Epic failure... Commentary today was "He may lose the ball, but he doesn't hide".... WTF kind of thing to say about a DM is that?

Their league form since the turn of the year puts them 17th.

Lucas is a fudging amazing DM. He is their best player.

But I can't help but admire the footballing skills that he does possess, when he stops cheating, whining and conning referees for long enough

The racist part was the worst of him for me... Some cheating (handball on the line for Uruguay in the world cup) - that was understandable, I can't refuse to support a player if he joined Spurs for that... The diving is incredibly annoying, the whining and trying to get people booked/sent off is incredibly frustrating... Liverpool's front 2 spend more time trying to get the ref to give them free kicks or whatever than actually focusing on the game. Conning referees is bad...

But if you look at how he has hurt the image of Liverpool, made his manager look even worse than he makes himself look and everything, Suarez doesn't seem to be worth the hassle. He has a big price tag and doesn't have Aguero style finishing... Suarez may be able to score pretty goals, but if he scores 1 pretty goal but misses 3 good chances afterwards, I'd rather have him score 2 tap ins than score an overhead kick from outside the box.

But Defoe generally puts away his chances. Suarez misses make Adebayor look prolific.

I'm going to hate myself for the words I am about to say.... In fairness to Suarez... *Shudder*... Suarez can dribble past people, he is very good at that, he can do a lot of things Defoe can't do... But yeah, give Defoe and Suarez the same chances and Defoe will score more of his.


I'm still of the "lone strikers only phalanx", I fear we're going to have to sign a backup for VDV and a couple of other midfielders/wingers that can score goals or it's going to be awkward when we're chasing a game and I suggest Sandro for Parker or Hudds for Gallas.

I know Suarez could play in VDV's role, but I prefer VDV. Suarez makes for expensive and controversial backup, I'm not sure squad players should be on his wages anyway.

 

[ArcspacE]

In the words of Briatore - Jisuste Christe!

How long did that take you

 

[yiddo2786]

In the words of Briatore - Jisuste Christe!

How long did that take you

Quality, not quantity :-"