AVB Postmortem poll: what occurance was the beginining of the end?

[glorygloryeze]

This thread is mainly for those who even if they felt Levy should have ended his tenure when he did, at least saw some good points that he brought during his reign. If you are one of those that says he was total charlatan/fraud, only played 'turgid football' etc then please don't waste your time posting here.

Just vote for when you think, looking back, it did begin to go wrong for him and his tenure. Mods, this vote will only be open for a week, so please can I ask for it to be open in that time[-o<
I'm happy for it to be merged with the existing AVB thread after that if need be.

So Vote now!

 

[Superted]

What about the Lloris concussion saga against Everton. From then on, I lost a bit of trust I had in him that he would do the right thing and would be accountable. Not just the way he urged Hugo to play on, but the way he tried to backpeddle afterwards. Poor leadership.

 

[glorygloryeze]

What about the Lloris concussion saga against Everton. From then on, I lost a bit of trust I had in him that he would do the right thing and would be accountable. Not just the way he urged Hugo to play on, but the way he tried to backpeddle afterwards. Poor leadership.

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten about that. I didn't think at the time he did urge Hugo to play on; from the commentating I was listening to live at the time they were saying Hugo himself wanted to play on and he shrugged off all the attempts of the medical staff to get him off the pitch. I thought that AVB was happy to go along with it (after Hugo was so insistent) rather than actively encouraging it.
Do you have any more information on AVB being the one urging him to play on? Video, article anything?
Happy to stand corrected.

You do have to wonder about Hugo since that incident though. Doesn't look quite the same atm

 

[Superted]

Just going from fuzzy recollections. Your version is probably more accurate though, Lloris insisting to go on and AVB allowing it though I'm sure the medics said no. Lloris wouldn't have been in the best position to make the call to be fair.

But it was more the backpeddling afterwards that disappointed me.

 

[Modric THFC]

none of them and all of these http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...ts-that-cost-villas-boas-his-job-as-tottenham

the first would be
"But even early on in his tenure, there was a sense that Villas-Boas might have hoodwinked a few people at White Hart Lane.

For example, he took the job in the full understanding of the club’s transfer committee system for trading players and the dual philosophy of finding undervalued players and promoting youth team products.

Yet in his first transfer meeting last year he instantly demanded more than £50m in order to recruit Joao Moutinho, Hulk and Anderson."

 

[Raziel]

Honestly, same as Harry, not getting CL at the end of last season.

Like Harry, seems like Levy didn't always get along/trust AVB, but as long as he was in the running for that CL spot he was ok.

Failure to get CL, the personality issues crop up more, then the inevitable bad run = out.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Sandro's injury. Him and Dembele were the best central midfield pairing in the Premier League up until that point, and once Sandro's season was over we struggled to adequately replace his relentless ball recovery and magnificent defensive screening, both of which helped us play our high-pressure game with ease and contributed to our great run of form up to that point. After that, Dembele had to take on extra duties and duly started fading away, while our midfield lost the iron control it had maintained on games after that point. Sure, Bale became Superman and bailed us out after that, but make no mistake: if Bale hadn't hit the run of form that he did, we would have collapsed post January 2013. The magnitude of the impact Sandro's injury had on Spurs can be accurately measured by looking at the Spurs trajectories of both him and Dembele post January 2013: neither has even returned to the unreal form that they were in prior to Sandro's knee troubles, and Sandro himself has yet to even fully recover from it.

This summer, we spent some 7 million quid on Capoue because we needed a back-up for Sandro, plus who knows how much in wages. Just think: if we didn't spend that money on Capoue (Which we wouldn't have needed to, if the Sandro+Dembele axis had continued on into the final stretches of the season), we could have had an extra seven million quid in the bank from the Bale sale, which could have easily made the difference up front: instead of 26 million for Soldado, we could have spent 33-35 million on, say, Diego Costa or Christian Benteke or maybe even Hulk, all players more suited to AVB's system than poor old Bobby. Hell, we might even have been able to close the Willian deal by offering him more wages earlier in the negotiation process, thus locking in his desire to move here. And then what would have happened?

Sigh.

 

[Danners9]

Fulham at home, March last season.

From then on it was a chase and we were hoping for others to slip up. Bale had been scoring most of the goals and it showed we can't always scrape games - and without him scoring, we have little to no threat. Hopes were raised again with the Emirates Marketing Project game but Southampton and Sunderland - and probably others I don't recall - were tight wins with Bale scoring.

This season was a real chance to push on, even with GB going. Seems like AVB regressed to a team missing its main scoring outlet instead of adapting to a new line up - or having a new set up ready to go. We have been dull, low-scoring (low-conceding most of the time, too), and labored in our play. A style that really was unnecessary after the first few weeks. We could have done so much more with the attacking talent but that was, perhaps, risky, and not in-keeping with AVBs idea. I realise it takes time for new players to settle but a few goals make the world of difference to attacking players, making them play so conservatively has been boring.

Last season as a whole wasn't such a problem, Bale WAS scoring and the team was set up to get the most from him. The Fulham game, as it turns out, has shown what it would be like without his goals (even though he played) and that pattern has followed this season. We might win but it's far from convincing, cup games aside (strangely).

 

[scaramanga]

None of the above. He was doomed to failure for attempting to bring thinking to a country where people are still inherently suspicious of intellectuals.

 

[djp82]

None of the above. He was doomed to failure for attempting to bring thinking to a country where people are still inherently suspicious of intellectuals.

 

[Mulletperm]

None of the above. He was doomed to failure for attempting to bring thinking to a country where people are still inherently suspicious of intellectuals.

Give it a rest Scara. Joe Public isn't as thick as you like to make out.

 

[Kingdawson]

Fulham at home, March last season.

From then on it was a chase and we were hoping for others to slip up. Bale had been scoring most of the goals and it showed we can't always scrape games - and without him scoring, we have little to no threat. Hopes were raised again with the Emirates Marketing Project game but Southampton and Sunderland - and probably others I don't recall - were tight wins with Bale scoring.

This season was a real chance to push on, even with GB going. Seems like AVB regressed to a team missing its main scoring outlet instead of adapting to a new line up - or having a new set up ready to go. We have been dull, low-scoring (low-conceding most of the time, too), and labored in our play. A style that really was unnecessary after the first few weeks. We could have done so much more with the attacking talent but that was, perhaps, risky, and not in-keeping with AVBs idea. I realise it takes time for new players to settle but a few goals make the world of difference to attacking players, making them play so conservatively has been boring.

Last season as a whole wasn't such a problem, Bale WAS scoring and the team was set up to get the most from him. The Fulham game, as it turns out, has shown what it would be like without his goals (even though he played) and that pattern has followed this season. We might win but it's far from convincing, cup games aside (strangely).

Good post.

 

[scaramanga]

Give it a rest Scara. Joe Public isn't as thick as you like to make out.

Joe public isn't thick, he just doesn't like intellectuals - there's a big difference.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Not signing a LB combined with Rose's injury.

If we'd had Verts at CB the big defeats wouldn't have happened.

 

[indianspur]

none of them and all of these http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...ts-that-cost-villas-boas-his-job-as-tottenham

the first would be
"But even early on in his tenure, there was a sense that Villas-Boas might have hoodwinked a few people at White Hart Lane.

For example, he took the job in the full understanding of the club’s transfer committee system for trading players and the dual philosophy of finding undervalued players and promoting youth team products.

Yet in his first transfer meeting last year he instantly demanded more than £50m in order to recruit Joao Moutinho, Hulk and Anderson."

=D> ...........how can an supposed intellectual guy read the situation so wrong

 

[jts1882]

Moutinho may have been a missed opportunity, but you can't base a system on one player. There have to be alternatives to fit the system or you change the system. Losing Bale was a big factor but with £100m to spend you need to be able to compensate. Managers like Martinez at Wigan have to deal with losing important players all the time.

I agree with Danners in that the end of last season and beginning of this season were very similar, but disguised in different ways. Bale made it look better then, but the low scoring continued and our position only looked good because of the defence. So the turning point was when we started shipping goals for fun. When Sam Allardyce looks like an attacking genius the writing is on the wall.

 

[indianspur]

Not signing a LB combined with Rose's injury.

If we'd had Verts at CB the big defeats wouldn't have happened.

didnt Verts play at CB in the second half capitulation at home to West Ham?

 

[scaramanga]

Managers like Martinez at Wigan have to deal with losing important players all the time.

Martinez at Wigan took until February every season to bed the new players in.

 

[Hootnow]

Joe public isn't thick, he just doesn't like intellectuals - there's a big difference.

Whereas the Portugese, Italians and Spaniards, known for their many outstanding scientists and intellectuals, are in complete love with intellectuals when compared to the English?

You show far more about your own prejudices about the 'common man' with these posts than any deep insight into the psyche of the British population.

Some people are a bit iffy about AVB because of his record at Chelsea. He came and did a decent job in his 1st season, though some fans flagged up the worrying style of play in the 2nd half of the season and the over reliance on Bale. Then came this season, where our style of play was poor, we received 3 thrashings within a short space of time and we weren't scoring. And the worries about his failure at Chelsea started to crop up again.

You keep on mentioning Neanderthal fans (in effect) and obsession with 4-4-2 but the reality is that there are few teams in this league now who play a traditional 4-4-2, even those led by old school British managers. You also wrongly conflate playing something other than 4-4-2 with playing boring football. The reality of course is that you can play exceptional football, or at least something other than sleep inducing football, with formations other than 4-4-2 (indeed, they are probably far superior at producing such football). The problem was how **** our football (regardless of formation) was and that was the reason for disquiet from fans, not any ridiculous notion of inferior intellect.


There certainly is an element within British football which is hostile to people like AVB. However, it certainly was not the overriding feeling amongst Spurs fans and was not the main reason (in my opinion, not even a factor) for AVB leaving the club.

 

[Kingdawson]

You know Scaramanga...you've made a few bogus posts insinuating that technical ability wouldn't be appreciated by Sherwood as much as it was under AVB. Lets really analyse this:

My opinion is that it's an absolute myth that AVB values technical ability and i'll explain why:

1) Firstly he was a big fan of Clint Dempsey and played him about Siggy who was technically superior.

2) He had no time for Tom Huddlestone and rarely played him...and then sold him.

3) He had no time for Benoit Ekotto and actually thought Kyle Naughton was a better option on the left for some games last season.

4) He didn't have any time for Ade this season who is technically our best striker.

5) He allowed Caulker to leave who is technically good. He preferred Dawson.

6) His favourite CM is Paulinho who is the least technically gifted of the bunch. He would 'rest' Sandro...'rest' Dembele....play Paulinho under any circumstance

7) He gave Erik Lamela little to no chance.

8) We signed no creative passing cm in the 3 transfer windows under him. We signed 5 central players in total and only Eriksen could be considered a 'passer'.


I think it's a total myth he appreciates technical ability.