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Ange in or out?

Ange in or out?

  • In

    Votes: 78 47.6%

  • Out

    Votes: 86 52.4%
  • Total voters
    164
Bedfordspurs said:
Fair call
What we have currently is nothing like Ange ball
Im amazed he is letting the players get away with it
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I think they're putting the effort in. I do think they're worn out and of course the injuries (all of which could possibly be fed into by the style of play, but let's not get into that:)).

Ange wants to play the way he plays because it's been successful. Most people would 'if it ain't broke' etc.

But the kinetic output to win the J league or Scottish PL, that keeps this method rolling week on week, is at a guess, less. That before you get to a higher level of opposition players and smarter managers.

Obviously Ange still thinks there is still levels for this squad to go, he still believes.
What he doesn't believe is his philosophy has hit a ceiling.
There's no shame if it has....this league is the ultimate testing ground.
What I would say, is at nearly 60 years old, he's not going to rebuild a philosophy from the ground up again.

Ps. The irony of my example of PSG, is I thought they were brilliant......and lost :)
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think they're putting the effort in. I do think they're worn out and of course the injuries (all of which could possibly be fed into by the style of play, but let's not get into that:)).

Ange wants to play the way he plays because it's been successful. Most people would 'if it ain't broke' etc.

But the kinetic output to win the J league or Scottish PL, that keeps this method rolling week on week, is at a guess, less. That before you get to a higher level of opposition players and smarter managers.

Obviously Ange still thinks there is still levels for this squad to go, he still believes.
What he doesn't believe is his philosophy has hit a ceiling.
There's no shame if it has....this league is the ultimate testing ground.
What I would say, is at nearly 60 years old, he's not going to rebuild a philosophy from the ground up again.

Ps. The irony of my example of PSG, is I thought they were brilliant......and lost :)
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They were sensational
 
Juicebox said:
The injuries are having a massive impact, and I can't see the club wanting to take the risk of repeating the pattern again from November next season, whether by coincidence or by design.

Our season now pretty much rests on the Europa League, barring a miracle run in the league (with others dropping enough points too) to get a European place. I can't see this squad uniting (or staying fit enough) under Ange to achieve either of these. Therefore, I feel the change is needed now.

A new manager coming in would have players returning from injury, have the opportunity to work with them in training and implement a (new) system, all of this coinciding with a 'new manager bounce'.

I've been supportive of Ange in general due to his philosophy of how the game should be played. I've sympathetic due to the volume of injuries, but the performances today in the FA Cup vs Villa and the League Cup SF performance on Thursday at Anfield (and even with the exhaustion that some of the squad will have), it feels as though the players aren't fully behind him.
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One month on...
 
Th
ricky2tricky4city said:
I think they're putting the effort in. I do think they're worn out and of course the injuries (all of which could possibly be fed into by the style of play, but let's not get into that:)).

Ange wants to play the way he plays because it's been successful. Most people would 'if it ain't broke' etc.

But the kinetic output to win the J league or Scottish PL, that keeps this method rolling week on week, is at a guess, less. That before you get to a higher level of opposition players and smarter managers.

Obviously Ange still thinks there is still levels for this squad to go, he still believes.
What he doesn't believe is his philosophy has hit a ceiling.
There's no shame if it has....this league is the ultimate testing ground.
What I would say, is at nearly 60 years old, he's not going to rebuild a philosophy from the ground up again.

Ps. The irony of my example of PSG, is I thought they were brilliant......and lost :)
Click to expand...
Even then they have far better players than we do. I've said it since last season, Ange's system will not work with the current calibre of player we have. It's really that simple.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
Do you think that the calibre of player we have could be attaining better results in a different system?
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Yeah, a more safety conscious coach could definitely have garnered better results, although I think our goals scored would be lower, maybe significantly. It's the suicide football that'd gets us the goals but a more pragmatic coach would likely eeke out a few more wins by a single goal. So there is always some give and take in these things.
 
When we played West Ham in our first friendly with Ange I'm sure we had like 25 attacks and chances and I thought this was going to be a match made in heaven and a joy to watch.

10 games we got. And then it all went to brick.

Did people suss us out or did we just get worse? Surely a team gets better when it stays with the manager longer, if it's working.

Ange still believes we will come out on top, but how long do you give him? Why would it change in two months or three, why isn't it changing now?
 
Bishop said:
Th

Even then they have far better players than we do. I've said it since last season, Ange's system will not work with the current calibre of player we have. It's really that simple.
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Do you think it would work with any calibre of player though? I say that because I think it only works consistently when your calibre of player is on another planet to the opposition, I.e. celtic etc. In the PL, even peak Emirates Marketing Project are losing 3 or 4 games a season and Liverpool this season have had to dig deep and eak out a fair few hard fought 1 goal wins.
 
Silly McSilly Face said:
Do you think it would work with any calibre of player though? I say that because I think it only works consistently when your calibre of player is on another planet to the opposition, I.e. celtic etc. In the PL, even peak Emirates Marketing Project are losing 3 or 4 games a season and Liverpool this season have had to dig deep and eak out a fair few hard fought 1 goal wins.
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Yes I agree. I think he needs players relatively better than the competition to win because it's a very high risk approach. It's also requires a precision and finesse that doesn't come easily. When you have the best squad in the league ie. say Celtic it's easier for the philosophy to work. I can't speak for his Japanese or Australian runs but I do think against a lower calibre of opposition you can get away with the small mistakes due to that opposition not having the quality to take advantage of the gaps.
 
Daveeeeeeeed said:
When we played West Ham in our first friendly with Ange I'm sure we had like 25 attacks and chances and I thought this was going to be a match made in heaven and a joy to watch.

10 games we got. And then it all went to brick.

Did people suss us out or did we just get worse? Surely a team gets better when it stays with the manager longer, if it's working.

Ange still believes we will come out on top, but how long do you give him? Why would it change in two months or three, why isn't it changing now?
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It was absolutely his getting found out, which is why we concede the same goals over and over again, teams are waiting for us to cough the ball up in certain situations and they have a preplanned attack for each one.
 
Baleforce said:
It was absolutely his getting found out, which is why we concede the same goals over and over again, teams are waiting for us to cough the ball up in certain situations and they have a preplanned attack for each one.
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So do you think the chances he coughs up are just more harshly punished compared to his other jobs in Australia, Japan and Scotland? Better opposition means mistakes are punished etc?
 
fernadez said:
Could clearly see that our players, were better individually than theirs.

But they were a much better team than us

I believe that's what is called in the business 'management'.
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Their press was unbelievable, but beat that and they were so open in the midfield. I remember one ball from LB into Bergvall in the centre circle and he had no one within 20 yards of him.

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if Spurs gave up a 2-0 lead to a team struggling in 13th? If Iraola is our next manager, we will 100% be back here in about 15 months.

Edit: here it is

https://imgur.com/QSnZhxA

https://imgur.com/TU4mpwx

One pass from deep in our own corner and the ball ends up on the edge of the box. Utter meltdown if that were Spurs!
 
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tommysvr said:
Their press was unbelievable, but beat that and they were so open in the midfield. I remember one ball from LB into Bergvall in the centre circle and he had no one within 20 yards of him.

Can you imagine the meltdown on here if Spurs gave up a 2-0 lead to a team struggling in 13th? If Iraola is our next manager, we will 100% be back here in about 15 months.
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But we rarely beat it. And when we did, most of the time we couldn't finish off the attack. Passing was woeful. (Granted only saw 1st half, didn't sound performance was much better in 2nd half, well done on getting 2 goals back)

Nobody was chuffed with the Brighton collapse, and the loses against everyone else even when we were never leading against lower teams!

I'm not as excited as others ref Iraola (but I wasn't excited about Harry or Poch and I was super wrong) what I do know is I don't want this. And whoever we get. I think we are back here again in 18mth cos we won't get the players the said manager wants
 
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dingdongo said:
So do you think the chances he coughs up are just more harshly punished compared to his other jobs in Australia, Japan and Scotland? Better opposition means mistakes are punished etc?
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Yes. 100%
And the opposite is true - if you keep attacking against lesser players, you'll get more opening's.

The margins in the EPL are tiny for all and every action - on the pitch and on the tactics board.
I don't think Ange is a bad manager - he's really successful at what he does; but what he does isn't suited for the very top.
He could probably do well in the below tier - Portugal, Holland etc. A step up from Scotland, but down from the PL.

I'd be interested to see what he'd do in the Championship.
 
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