Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yeah I agree. I'm a results guy at the end of the day.

However, I don't agree the style of football under AVB is going to change all that much, it wouldn't/shouldn't take a year and a half to get a team with very good attacking players to play free flowing football.

But I'm noticing some contradictory statements regarding AVB. On the one hand you have some of his biggest believers claiming we can be a top 4 team this season or perhaps higher, but on the other hand I see people saying how we should stick by him even if we have a bad season as long as "the signs are there that we are improving"? What signs? Why should we tolerate poor league positions? I'm talking anything lower than 6th (and that's being generous in my opinion). It's these kind of vague responses that frustrate me and other posters. Everything was cut and dried for our previous managers during the last 20 years, it was basically top 4 or you're a goner in a couple of seasons, why is it different now?

People realising we can't carry on doing what we have always done and expecting different results...and that we need a bit of long term planning? I get the feeling some people welcome the short term pain if it means they can see long term gain from what is trying to be achieved.

Personally I believe these Duncan Castles stories, I think AVB is gone at the end of the season. Castles was giving Ashton stick last week and backing AVB, and I don't think he is releasing these stories to stir and make it difficult for him. Along with Barclay - another journo who has been complimentary of AVB - saying the board still aren't convinced after the Fulham win, I think something is definitely there.

And it's so frustrating if true. I thought as a club we finally had some joined up thinking. I thought everyone was in on the long term plan. It seems though that the board, probably Lewis, have decided that they see other clubs playing nice looking football and sitting above us after 15 games and wondering why we aren't doing the same, in a season where we were supposed to be challenging for the title with all the transition at the top of the league. We had our own transition but I don't think this figures into their minds. They want good football, they want a title challenge, they want a zero net spend and they want it all right now. It's verging on Roman Abramovich style madness. How are these new players supposed to buy into the AVB way of playing if the board are hanging over him with the sword of damocles waiting to give him the chop? If they acknowledged Harry's England prospects harmed the team...surely this well. So, so mad.

To be honest the fact that it's so mad and so ridiculous is the one crumb I'm holding on to to believe there is some other ulterior motive to these stories. It just doesn't make sense. Who exactly is going to come in and have us playing title winning champagne football on a zero net spend? It's a flipping joke.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

We played really well in that Chelsea game and missed a lot of chances, infuriatingly so because a win there and whatever Chelsea did in the CL woudn't have mattered to us. I remember Modric and VDV missing from 6 yards. Bale heading over when easier to score.

But do you know what? For all the good performances under Harry, and there were plenty, I also remember a lot where we looked absolutely toothless and despite having the possession, failing to come really close to a goal. Kind of like Liverpool's performance away to Hull and Arsenal this season. I think being the kind of team that is 'capable of beating anyone on it's day' is great and those kinds of teams will usually smash the inferior ones, but when it all isn't clicking and popping off as it should it looks really disappointing. It's at this point we look like we have no plan and people start craving a system.

I know we've had games under AVB where we've looked toothless for large periods but in most if not all games there always comes a point where we genuinely threaten the opposition goals with clear chances. Away games, we would peel one after the other last year and just keep winning. I don't think our squad under Harry would have done similar, but we might have smashed Southampton at home rather than needing a Bale goal for example. But at the end of the day, under AVB we just kept winning, more than we ever had done before. You're probably right in that there are more '90 minute' performances under Harry, certainly against teams we 'should' be beating. But I'd say there's also more games where we look like we have absolutely no idea and don't threaten the opposition goal whatsoever under Harry than there has been under AVB. Because even in most of AVB's worst games, we still have a spell where the switch is flicked. Which is kind of his whole strategy - blitzing a team in short bursts.

The games I'm talking about in Harry's years are the likes of QPR away, Everton away that season. Tonnes of possession but no real plan or strategy for the game. Just a mish mash of players told to go out there and play and because they were better players, they would whole possession for a longer period. But we never, ever came close to threatening in those games with serious chances. Even last year the QPR game we drew 0-0 and Sandro got injured Ade was missing chances that were easier to score.

Nothing annoys me more than when managers can't just front up and say you know what? We weren't good enough today. Arry reckoned we battered QPR, having 70% possession but doing feck all with it is not dominating, creating chances is dominating, forcing the keeper to make saves is dominating. AVB reckoned we dominated the Scum away game when we lost 5-2, how can you dominate when you're losing for 65 minutes? Complete nonsense.

 

[AberYid]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Any chance of Kingdawson naming any of the 'loads' of games under Redknapp during which we played 'brilliantly' for 90 minutes?

Please

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

His fourth season into the job? against a team whos manager gave up the league in hope to win the FA Cup and Champions League? In which he successfully did ending our hopes of Champions League football.

Next.

what does any of the bit in bold have to do with anything. you saying that he played a bad team? or asked his players to play bad or something?

so essentially what we did there is down to chelsea laying down and dieing without competing

ridiculous

9-1 wigan...
4-0 liverpool
4-0 Saudi Sportswashing Machine (or was that 4-1?)

pick your holes in those..am sure you'll find something.

edit :- this post was probably considered hostile, before anyone starts picking on me, didnt mean it to be if anyone got offended

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

WTF has this got to do with anything? we're talking about good performances...we're not evaluating the opposition and determining what sort of condition they were in at the time of the game.

You bring up **** stain teams like QPR and Villa but have a problem with Chelski away being brought up..says it all:ross:

This

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

We played really well in that Chelsea game and missed a lot of chances, infuriatingly so because a win there and whatever Chelsea did in the CL woudn't have mattered to us. I remember Modric and VDV missing from 6 yards. Bale heading over when easier to score.

But do you know what? For all the good performances under Harry, and there were plenty, I also remember a lot where we looked absolutely toothless and despite having the possession, failing to come really close to a goal. Kind of like Liverpool's performance away to Hull and Arsenal this season. I think being the kind of team that is 'capable of beating anyone on it's day' is great and those kinds of teams will usually smash the inferior ones, but when it all isn't clicking and popping off as it should it looks really disappointing. It's at this point we look like we have no plan and people start craving a system.

I know we've had games under AVB where we've looked toothless for large periods but in most if not all games there always comes a point where we genuinely threaten the opposition goals with clear chances. Away games, we would peel one after the other last year and just keep winning. I don't think our squad under Harry would have done similar, but we might have smashed Southampton at home rather than needing a Bale goal for example. But at the end of the day, under AVB we just kept winning, more than we ever had done before. You're probably right in that there are more '90 minute' performances under Harry, certainly against teams we 'should' be beating. But I'd say there's also more games where we look like we have absolutely no idea and don't threaten the opposition goal whatsoever under Harry than there has been under AVB. Because even in most of AVB's worst games, we still have a spell where the switch is flicked. Which is kind of his whole strategy - blitzing a team in short bursts.

The games I'm talking about in Harry's years are the likes of QPR away, Everton away that season. Tonnes of possession but no real plan or strategy for the game. Just a mish mash of players told to go out there and play and because they were better players, they would whole possession for a longer period. But we never, ever came close to threatening in those games with serious chances. Even last year the QPR game we drew 0-0 and Sandro got injured Ade was missing chances that were easier to score.

if your saying that the games in comparison to redknapps means that in more games we have more clear cut chances under harry than AVB this season then i am sorry but i have to disagree strongly on that

In redknapps games where we looked toothless , which AVB has had in spades over harry btw, we still managed to carve up good chances too. where is this idea that when we looked toothless we got no good chances at all?

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

if your saying that the games in comparison to redknapps means that in more games we have more clear cut chances under harry than AVB this season then i am sorry but i have to disagree strongly on that

In redknapps games where we looked toothless , which AVB has had in spades over harry btw, we still managed to carve up good chances too. where is this idea that when we looked toothless we got no good chances at all?

I'm talking about even in Harry's final season, I've mentioned QPR and Everton away, but also Norwich at home over the Easter period (awful, awful performance where we got what we deserved) and Sunderland away a couple of days after. We never once looked like seriously threatening Sunderland's goal. Villa away I think we had one Bale chance that Given made a fantastic save on and not much else over the match, which is extremely poor for a team needing to win to get 3rd.

We had lots of games binder Harry where we swept aside easier teams and even played intelligently and broke well against the better ones. But I'd say there were also performances where we looked completely toothless despite having possession. Under AVB I'm confidence, especially this season, that we will score when we need to. Even if we have a 'toothless' first half (some might say on Saturday we did) I'm confidence at some point in the game we will have a spell where we seriously threaten. Under Harry it could go very well but if it wasn't going well there was a crushing inevitability that it wouldn't be our day.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'm talking about even in Harry's final season, I've mentioned QPR and Everton away, but also Norwich at home over the Easter period (awful, awful performance where we got what we deserved) and Sunderland away a couple of days after. We never once looked like seriously threatening Sunderland's goal. Villa away I think we had one Bale chance that Given made a fantastic save on and not much else over the match, which is extremely poor for a team needing to win to get 3rd.

We had lots of games binder Harry where we swept aside easier teams and even played intelligently and broke well against the better ones. But I'd say there were also performances where we looked completely toothless despite having possession. Under AVB I'm confidence, especially this season, that we will score when we need to. Even if we have a 'toothless' first half (some might say on Saturday we did) I'm confidence at some point in the game we will have a spell where we seriously threaten. Under Harry it could go very well but if it wasn't going well there was a crushing inevitability that it wouldn't be our day.

I'm not really sure what makes you so confident seeing as we have the lowest percentage for shots inside the penalty area in the league, while scoring less goals inside the area than any other side (before Saturdays game)...? To me that reads relying on a bit of individual brilliance. I've never been less confident that we will score.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'm not really sure what makes you so confident seeing as we have the lowest percentage for shots inside the penalty area in the league, while scoring less goals inside the area than any other side (before Saturdays game)...? To me that reads relying on a bit of individual brilliance. I've never been less confident that we will score.

We always seem to create the chances when we need to, bar West Ham. And even in that game didn't Defoe miss a pretty good one that could have changed things? (I missed the start of the second half).

Against City we went straight up the other end and Lamela missed from 6 yards. Against Chelsea after Torres got sent off Defoe missed a great chance. We pummelled Norwich all game. Cardiff we pummelled. Villa we created chances when needed. Saudi Sportswashing Machine we created lots. These last 2 against Fulham and Sunderland we were missing open goals, one on ones, all sorts.

My point is that over most games, we will more consistently create actual chances where as often under Harry, we would spank some lesser teams but in the same season have some really poor performances where we had no plan to break the opposition down and didn't come close to looking like doing so.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I know last year we got a lot of Bale goals but there's been something I wanted to say on Bale, and long shots in general. If I see our players in the warm ups or in training, they can generally hit the target with a shot from far out more often than not. If the player in question is a good long shot taker, as Bale was, it's entirely reasonable to work situations to allow him to shoot and it doesn't mean it 'doesn't count' or however else people look upon the points we picked up in those games. Particularly when our team contained very few incisive passers and teams would sit back on us, they are asking for long shots to be taken and last season they went in. Also because we are able to tire them out with patient play which allows the shooter the space to set himself for a proper shot (see O'Neil limply tracking Bale vs West Ham last year or Bale bursting past Luke Shaw).

Sometimes we will need a long ranger to go in if the opposition is sitting back, and if they do that they are asking for it to happen. Our players are good, elite players and are all capable of hitting the target from 20 yards. The fact that we kept benefitting from it over and over again suggests to me that long shots aren't just lucky and can actually be a reasonable tactic.

This year we are creating clearer chances and my point remains that under AVB I feel confident that in most matches we will suddenly turn it on and create some real opportunities, where as under Harry we will have a lot of good games but also a fair few games where if it wasn't clicking, it wasn't likely to.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I know last year we got a lot of Bale goals but there's been something I wanted to say on Bale, and long shots in general. If I see our players in the warm ups or in training, they can generally hit the target with a shot from far out more often than not. If the player in question is a good long shot taker, as Bale was, it's entirely reasonable to work situations to allow him to shoot and it doesn't mean it 'doesn't count' or however else people look upon the points we picked up in those games. Particularly when our team contained very few incisive passers and teams would sit back on us, they are asking for long shots to be taken and last season they went in. Also because we are able to tire them out with patient play which allows the shooter the space to set himself for a proper shot (see O'Neil limply tracking Bale vs West Ham last year or Bale bursting past Luke Shaw).

Sometimes we will need a long ranger to go in if the opposition is sitting back, and if they do that they are asking for it to happen. Our players are good, elite players and are all capable of hitting the target from 20 yards. The fact that we kept benefitting from it over and over again suggests to me that long shots aren't just lucky and can actually be a reasonable tactic.

This year we are creating clearer chances and my point remains that under AVB I feel confident that in most matches we will suddenly turn it on and create some real opportunities, where as under Harry we will have a lot of good games but also a fair few games where if it wasn't clicking, it wasn't likely to.

Palace and Swansea come to mind, this season at least.

I'm not really interested in who we create more chances under to be honest, I think it's easier to say 'we didn't create chances under HR' because it was a long time ago now and it's somewhat easier to tarnish his rep than it is to defend it. Just for instance if you actually check the stats for the Villa game that you mentioned at the end of the final season we created a shed load of SOT, and with 10 men.

The argument I have with Bale is that a lot of his wonder strikes were last minute, where he had picked the ball up basically from the centre backs and worked a bit of space. If you're telling me that you feel like it was more a case of we were playing some sort of Gridiron to get him further up the pitch near the goal with certain players causing diversions then I'm sorry but I totally disagree with that notion.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'm talking about even in Harry's final season, I've mentioned QPR and Everton away, but also Norwich at home over the Easter period (awful, awful performance where we got what we deserved) and Sunderland away a couple of days after. We never once looked like seriously threatening Sunderland's goal. Villa away I think we had one Bale chance that Given made a fantastic save on and not much else over the match, which is extremely poor for a team needing to win to get 3rd.

We had lots of games binder Harry where we swept aside easier teams and even played intelligently and broke well against the better ones. But I'd say there were also performances where we looked completely toothless despite having possession. Under AVB I'm confidence, especially this season, that we will score when we need to. Even if we have a 'toothless' first half (some might say on Saturday we did) I'm confidence at some point in the game we will have a spell where we seriously threaten. Under Harry it could go very well but if it wasn't going well there was a crushing inevitability that it wouldn't be our day.

i was actually thinking of the QPR game away as that seemed to be some form of iconic fixed point where everyone had had enough of the form. even though it lasted all of 2 months and a bit

but in that game we had chances, not a lot of them but clean cut chances were there. I remember that clearly cause it was one of those games that people literally , and when i say literally i mean literally, started to make up IMO all sorts of jargon to qualify some completely unfounded notions about redknapp..did you know that one of the main complaints of that game was that bale was being played central? unbelieveable...i'm there arguing blind that bale being central is a good thing and the way of the future...he creates chances from there against qpr and people are moaning cause we didnt win in a period of bad form and confidence (which isnt allowed apparently) and start making stuff up... and i feel that the mood governed the whole idea that we didnt do anything in that game

anyway i tracked down a match report


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17711820

sounds nothing like we had no clear cut chances, we just didnt take them

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Palace and Swansea come to mind, this season at least.

I'm not really interested in who we create more chances under to be honest, I think it's easier to say 'we didn't create chances under HR' because it was a long time ago now and it's somewhat easier to tarnish his rep than it is to defend it. Just for instance if you actually check the stats for the Villa game that you mentioned at the end of the final season we created a shed load of SOT, and with 10 men.

The argument I have with Bale is that a lot of his wonder strikes were last minute, where he had picked the ball up basically from the centre backs and worked a bit of space. If you're telling me that you feel like it was more a case of we were playing some sort of Gridiron to get him further up the pitch near the goal with certain players causing diversions then I'm sorry but I totally disagree with that notion.

Well I think that was how the debate evolved - chance creation under different managers. Fair enough if you disagree but I just think we are always 'in the game' under AVB (unless things have gone seriously wrong ala Emirates Marketing Project) where as under Harry if it wasn't going well, it wasn't ever likely to improve in that match.

I do believe our strategy would be to get the ball to Bale and have him exploit his extra energy vs a tired defender. At that point he's able to steady himself and fire a proper shot in, not one off balance that shanks up to the stands. If you see the goal against Southampton he scores for example, every player almost has moved away from him to create that space for him to run in to. It's planned. It's like a basketball play where you don't crowd out the man in the post and give him the space to make a move one-on-one.

I think the plan last year was drawn up because it was decided: 'What is more likely to win us games?' Bale using his ability to win it, or maybe we hope for a Dempsey tap in from a knockdown, or maybe a Sig shot from distance, or maybe a Lennon pull back. I think Bale was identified as the difference maker, in that his ability was so much greater than any opposition player he would face, and therefore the most likely route to success was to have the team exploit that huge difference, rather than the smaller difference between Dempsey, Sig etc.

It's not like AVB inherited uber-Bale from the beginning of that season. He only really became that from the second half onwards. Before that we will have had other plans. And while I think a lot of credit should go to Bale for his improvement and handling the pressure of being the difference maker in the team week by week, a lot of credit should go to the staff for creating the structure that allowed him to flourish and exploit those talent differentials vs weaker opposition. If for example we tried getting Bale going hell for leather from the off, he may have not had the energy to raise his intensity when we most needed a goal and may have been more easily stopped when trying to set himself for that shot we needed to go in. Our system and structure contributed to Bale getting the advantages to do that.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

@BOL:-

and i am telling you this much...the way it conveniently seems like it was toothless for you in Harry's games where you said it didnt look like we were going to do anything...at least now you can empathise with people laying the same issue with AVB cause its the same thing, and IMO much worse...and more often...and to more spurs fans ....and to more neutrals. sometimes some putrid stuff, boring as hell with little to no idea where an attack is going to come from thats actually made me personally have little to no care about how we are playing....LOL. I couldnt make it up it was there for so many to see

so i guess what i am saying is that i do get what you mean then, depending on how you want to look at it we were toothless under harry if you wanted to generalise the performance but when you start saying that there we NO clear cut chances at all. thats incorrect IMO

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Well I think that was how the debate evolved - chance creation under different managers. Fair enough if you disagree but I just think we are always 'in the game' under AVB (unless things have gone seriously wrong ala Emirates Marketing Project) where as under Harry if it wasn't going well, it wasn't ever likely to improve in that match.

I do believe our strategy would be to get the ball to Bale and have him exploit his extra energy vs a tired defender. At that point he's able to steady himself and fire a proper shot in, not one off balance that shanks up to the stands. If you see the goal against Southampton he scores for example, every player almost has moved away from him to create that space for him to run in to. It's planned. It's like a basketball play where you don't crowd out the man in the post and give him the space to make a move one-on-one.

I think the plan last year was drawn up because it was decided: 'What is more likely to win us games?' Bale using his ability to win it, or maybe we hope for a Dempsey tap in from a knockdown, or maybe a Sig shot from distance, or maybe a Lennon pull back. I think Bale was identified as the difference maker, in that his ability was so much greater than any opposition player he would face, and therefore the most likely route to success was to have the team exploit that huge difference, rather than the smaller difference between Dempsey, Sig etc.

It's not like AVB inherited uber-Bale from the beginning of that season. He only really became that from the second half onwards. Before that we will have had other plans. And while I think a lot of credit should go to Bale for his improvement and handling the pressure of being the difference maker in the team week by week, a lot of credit should go to the staff for creating the structure that allowed him to flourish and exploit those talent differentials vs weaker opposition. If for example we tried getting Bale going hell for leather from the off, he may have not had the energy to raise his intensity when we most needed a goal and may have been more easily stopped when trying to set himself for that shot we needed to go in. Our system and structure contributed to Bale getting the advantages to do that.

But under HR we had the best record from points from a losing position, and this season when we equalised against Fulham that was the first time we have equalised when going behind this season? Hmm.

I just think Bale was world class, in the same way that I don't credit the Barca/Madrid managers for creating Messi/Ronaldo, Bale just did what he does best in my opinion.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

i was actually thinking of the QPR game away as that seemed to be some form of iconic fixed point where everyone had had enough of the form. even though it lasted all of 2 months and a bit

but in that game we had chances, not a lot of them but clean cut chances were there. I remember that clearly cause it was one of those games that people literally , and when i say literally i mean literally, started to make up IMO all sorts of jargon to qualify some completely unfounded notions about redknapp..did you know that one of the main complaints of that game was that bale was being played central? unbelieveable...i'm there arguing blind that bale being central is a good thing and the way of the future...he creates chances from there against qpr and people are moaning cause we didnt win in a period of bad form and confidence (which isnt allowed apparently) and start making stuff up

anyway i tracked down a match report


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17711820

sounds nothing like we had no clear cut chances, we just didnt take them

I mean this in the least hostile way possible mate -) ) but that report doesn't suggest to me we had clear chances, it suggests we were completely laboured. I remember some of those shots in question, snatched and shanked high and wide because they weren't clear. It was a game where we looked like we had no plan or strategy. We had tactics, sure. We had players we hoped would do something too. But I don't think the structure was there to ensure we got the most out of them at key parts of the game.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But under HR we had the best record from points from a losing position, and this season when we equalised against Fulham that was the first time we have equalised when going behind this season? Hmm.

I just think Bale was world class, in the same way that I don't credit the Barca/Madrid managers for creating Messi/Ronaldo, Bale just did what he does best in my opinion.

I'm not denying we can come back to win from behind as a Harry team. Even in those games I think we would have already been playing well often enough. I'm talking about performances that look toothless from the start and never improved. And there were plenty.

I definitely think top level coaching and the structure of a top club has something to do with the effectiveness of Messi and Ronaldo BTW, as hugely talented as they are.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

@BOL:-

and i am telling you this much...the way it conveniently seems like it was toothless for you in Harry's games where you said it didnt look like we were going to do anything...at least now you can empathise with people laying the same issue with AVB cause its the same thing, and IMO much worse...and more often...and to more spurs fans ....and to more neutrals. sometimes some putrid stuff, boring as hell with little to no idea where an attack is going to come from thats actually made me personally have little to no care about how we are playing....LOL. I couldnt make it up it was there for so many to see

so i guess what i am saying is that i do get what you mean then, depending on how you want to look at it we were toothless under harry if you wanted to generalise the performance but when you start saying that there we NO clear cut chances at all. thats incorrect IMO

I know where you're coming from, I can totally agree a fair few games last season, and Hull and West Ham this season, we have looked boring and toothless. Absolutely.

What I'm saying is that generally, over a season I think we are still 'in' games where as under Harry, there didn't appear to be enough strategy beyond letting the good players play that would see us create proper chances. We would have shots, but not proper shots that were likely to score. They would be snatched and desperate because we could see no way through.

I mean even if we take this Southampton game last year where 'Bale saved us'. I believe the structure the team had allowed him to get that shot away. We needed a goal, Southampton are well drilled defensively, and yet we got it. We allowed a player who has an excellent long range shot enough time and space to steady himself to get that shot away in an area where he would be effective. I just don't think it's a coincidence we won more points under AVB even if the performance weren't always as flowing. In terms of getting results, we were much more well drilled to do that effectively. Even if it was just that one great chance, we would often create it under AVB where more often under Harry we wouldn't. IMO.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I mean this in the least hostile way possible mate -) ) but that report doesn't suggest to me we had clear chances, it suggests we were completely laboured. I remember some of those shots in question, snatched and shanked high and wide because they weren't clear. It was a game where we looked like we had no plan or strategy. We had tactics, sure. We had players we hoped would do something too. But I don't think the structure was there to ensure we got the most out of them at key parts of the game.

:ross:

dude we go way back and i appreciate you taking the post for what it is...not an argument or trouble making stuff , just sincere points

but you know what...this thing is going in a direction that people might not like..the thread isnt about a Harry v AVB ...if you want to continue it i would be glad via PM. but i am unfortunately going to have to bow out

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

:ross:

dude we go way back and i appreciate you taking the post for what it is...not an argument or trouble making stuff , just sincere points

but you know what...this thing is going in a direction that people might not like..the thread isnt about a Harry v AVB ...if you want to continue it i would be glad via PM. but i am unfortunately going to have to bow out

Fair enough.

I would actually say to give the other side of the argument it's due...Everton away and Arsenal away this year are also matches that we didn't create clear chances in. Maybe we would have had some more chances in those games under Harry but at least in the Everton case we were very solid and I thought so too against Arsenal but I know others disagree there.