Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach

[mudshark]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd hope so…I just get annoyed that people get excited about AVB because he plays football by percentages and certain people love him because he reduces football to number crunching and statistics.

It's like I just want to stand outside and look up at the night's sky and think "sh** that is really f***ing beautiful", but then Andre Villas-Hawking rocks up in his wheel chair and starts telling me about the formula used to calculate the distance of all the stars from Earth and how it all works!

Maybe that makes me a dumb-a**, but I kind of like being one!

This is a highly flawed analogy, because there's nothing in the one that excludes the other. However, I'm not so sure I could say the same about Spurs v West Ham.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I'd hope so…I just get annoyed that people get excited about AVB because he plays football by percentages and certain people love him because he reduces football to number crunching and statistics.

It's like I just want to stand outside and look up at the night's sky and think "sh** that is really f***ing beautiful", but then Andre Villas-Hawking rocks up in his wheel chair and starts telling me about the formula used to calculate the distance of all the stars from Earth and how it all works!

Maybe that makes me a dumb-a**, but I kind of like being one!

You have clearly made yourself very clear.

Can I ask, do you have anything else left to say? I mean, I get it. You are bored ****less by AVB and you don't like what he's doing at Spurs. I think at this point we are crustal clear on that one. But do you have anything else to move this beyond you repeating yourself over and over? Would you care to try and ponder a potentially worthy replacement? It's a reasonable question. You don't have to be Stephen Hawking or a dumb-ass to have SOME idea? In fact, let me help you. Big Phil Scholari has said he'd like to come back here next season post-World Cup. He would likely get on very very well with Baldini. He is a proper Brazilian hybrid of Arry-meets-Fergie. Would you like him? Because for me, IF AVB were to leave at the end of the season, he is about the only available manager out there that I think could work…and remember, I am HAPPY with AVB for now.

Thoughts old boy?

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

As I said in the sub-70 IQ thread, there's an inherent distrust of intelligent people behind most of this.

It's a terrible thing in this country that amongst large chunks of the population there's something wrong with being an intellectual.

NWNWDNFWF's (sorry, can't look it up on tapatalk without losing my post) post about the stars sums it up. Whilst we're looking at the pretty stars and burning our first-born to make the big shiny yellow thing come back tomorrow morning, Arsenal and Utd having accepted that they need to know how far away the stars are, are on a space shuttle to the moon, leaving us behind.

 

[africanspurs]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

i've got a new level of respect for NWND , have to say....disagree or agree with his points...he sticks to them, doesnt lets the mob chase him or burn him out the house and doesnt straw man like others do including myself , at least not alot, and gives out his opinion as opinions in as clear a point as one can when fighting on several fronts

can we still give karma in this place? i miss the karma mafia

 

[scaramanga]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

As I said in the sub-70 IQ thread, there's an inherent distrust of intelligent people behind most of this.

It's a terrible thing in this country that amongst large chunks of the population there's something wrong with being an intellectual.

NWNWDNFWF's (sorry, can't look it up on tapatalk without losing my post) post about the stars sums it up. Whilst we're looking at the pretty stars and burning our first-born to make the big shiny yellow thing come back tomorrow morning, Arsenal and Utd having accepted that they need to know how far away the stars are, are on a space shuttle to the moon, leaving us behind.

Chelsea and City BTW don't have a shuttle, they just bought the moon and are having it brought to them so that nobody else can fly to it.

Liverpool don't have one because there was only seating room for 98% of the fans so rather than stand up they ruined it for everyone else.

 

[milo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

i've got a new level of respect for NWND , have to say....disagree or agree with his points...he sticks to them, doesnt lets the mob chase him or burn him out the house and doesnt straw man like others do including myself , at least not alot, and gives out his opinion as opinions in as clear a point as one can when fighting on several fronts

can we still give karma in this place? i miss the karma mafia

Personally, I don't think that repeating the same thing over and over again, making exaggerated points and refusing to take anyone else's points on board makes for very good discussion.

None of us are right about everything, we can all learn something new from someone else and hopefully, we all can change our mind or admit that we were wrong.

I am not saying that NWND should change his mind on wanting a new manager but I would have a lot more respect for him and his views if he adopted a more conciliatory tone and tried to engage in discussion.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yes but other managers can do this and allow their players to play.
He doesn't trust in his players to express themselves.
He fears bad results because of what happened him at Chelsea.
So goes out with a control the game and try to win it in the last 20 minutes approach.
There is so much fear in the team and how we play and it comes from AVB not the crowd.

A lot of opinion as fact there.

Again, he does place a lot of faith in individual motivation. He wants good players to express themselves. It just has to be done within a framework that gives us the best chance of winning, which is why we may not be totally looking great yet, although it's understandable we haven't reached maximum comfort in an attacking sense with a whole new attack.

As for the 'afraid of losing because of Chelsea' stuff, it's just unsubstantiated nothingness. It could so easily be argued from a balanced perspective that controlling the game, not overly exerting ourselves and waiting to strike in our terms gives us the best chance of winning and also lessens the oppositions chances of getting in front. It would be nothing to do with AVB being afraid to lose because of Chelsea. To be honest when we go a goal down I don't see a guy afraid of losing, I see a guy that doesn't react and has complete confidence he can turn it around.

Anyway, that's also ignoring the fact that against Chelsea themselves we didn't play like you say. Against Norwich we didn't play like that. Against Cardiff we didn't play like that. Against Everton we didn't play like that. Against Man United last year we didn't play like that. It can be argued against Emirates Marketing Project we did play like that, where we waited for a time to strike. What happened was Emirates Marketing Project were looking comfortable while we dissed out a way to win. Before they knew it they were 3-1 down. (Kind of also a riposte to say AVB can't change a game with subs)

The approach has it's merits, and is probably employed as a tactic to maximise our chances against bus parky teams like Hull without knackering ourselves out. Note I am not arguing that we are always looking great against those sorts of teams, merely that a patient approach has merits.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

A lot of opinion as fact there.

Again, he does place a lot of faith in individual motivation. He wants good players to express themselves. It just has to be done within a framework that gives us the best chance of winning, which is why we may not be totally looking great yet, although it's understandable we haven't reached maximum comfort in an attacking sense with a whole new attack.

As for the 'afraid of losing because of Chelsea' stuff, it's just unsubstantiated nothingness. It could so easily be argued from a balanced perspective that controlling the game, not overly exerting ourselves and waiting to strike in our terms gives us the best chance of winning and also lessens the oppositions chances of getting in front. It would be nothing to do with AVB being afraid to lose because of Chelsea. To be honest when we go a goal down I don't see a guy afraid of losing, I see a guy that doesn't react and has complete confidence he can turn it around.

Anyway, that's also ignoring the fact that against Chelsea themselves we didn't play like you say. Against Norwich we didn't play like that. Against Cardiff we didn't play like that. Against Everton we didn't play like that. Against Man United last year we didn't play like that. It can be argued against Emirates Marketing Project we did play like that, where we waited for a time to strike. What happened was Emirates Marketing Project were looking comfortable while we dissed out a way to win. Before they knew it they were 3-1 down. (Kind of also a riposte to say AVB can't change a game with subs)

The approach has it's merits, and is probably employed as a tactic to maximise our chances against bus parky teams like Hull without knackering ourselves out. Note I am not arguing that we are always looking great against those sorts of teams, merely that a patient approach has merits.

But its so calculatedly arrogant and ultimately negative.
We're not that good we can't try to play that way. We cant afford to be that patient when we've only scored 6 goals in 11 from open play. More often than not the goal isn't gonna come.

We've only scored 3 first half goals in our 11 league games and I hate it. Those three games were our best 3 games of the season.
For me an early goal helps control the game not a clean sheet at the 70th minute mark.
Take the early goal deflate the opposition and push on.

I don't see us controlling some of these games but the opposition letting us have the ball in our half while they get 10 men behind the ball.

 

[Robspur12]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Personally, I don't think that repeating the same thing over and over again, making exaggerated points and refusing to take anyone else's points on board makes for very good discussion.

None of us are right about everything, we can all learn something new from someone else and hopefully, we all can change our mind or admit that we were wrong.

I am not saying that NWND should change his mind on wanting a new manager but I would have a lot more respect for him and his views if he adopted a more conciliatory tone and tried to engage in discussion.

To be balanced milo the same applies to those on the other side of NWND's arguments with their equally fervent defence of AVB and his grand master plan. You happen to be much more balanced in your views but there are plenty who are not. Anyway it's made for a really interesting ( if polarised debate) and it's better than working. NWND should be commended for having the balls to start such a controversial debate. Funny how debates about managers always become polarised on here.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

But its so calculatedly arrogant and ultimately negative.
We're not that good we can't try to play that way. We cant afford to be that patient when we've only scored 6 goals in 11 from open play. More often than not the goal isn't gonna come.

We've only scored 3 first half goals in our 11 league games and I hate it. Those three games were our best 3 games of the season.
For me an early goal helps control the game not a clean sheet at the 70th minute mark.
Take the early goal deflate the opposition and push on.

I don't see us controlling some of these games but the opposition letting us have the ball in our half while they get 10 men behind the ball.

I think we easily have the players to play that way - ball playing centre backs, midfielders comfortable on the ball and (when Rose is back) attacking full backs. It's not an arrogant way to play (Scara's point about intellectuals is ringing true here) it's a sensible way.

We just need to get better at doing it so that we can score more early goals. Again, not denying it doesn't always look pretty right now but the only way we will get better is by improving through practice to get comfortable. Not losing our **** and ripping up everything we know because of an awkward transition and bedding in of players.

Going for an early goal is fine, but at that point the opposition is likely to have maximum concentration and maximum energy. If we don't get that early goal we have exerted ourselves early and invite the opposition on to us, making it harder to push and get the goal later on when we need it. I'm not saying it's never good to go for an early goal, but it's not a case of one strategy is good while the other is bad...or arrogant!

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

To be balanced milo the same applies to those on the other side of NWND's arguments with their equally fervent defence of AVB and his grand master plan. You happen to be much more balanced in your views but there are plenty who are not. Anyway it's made for a really interesting ( if polarised debate) and it's better than working. NWND should be commended for having the balls to start such a controversial debate. Funny how debates about managers always become polarised on here.

I think the difference is, some people will back up their points and try and engage in some discussion and be met with 'zzzzzzzzz' or a repeating of the same points as before. In that instance, discussion doesn't go anywhere and it's harder to respect that sort of debate.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the same points were being 'discussed' before NWNDs thread was started - nothings changed other than we now know a couple of posters are ready to call it a day with the manager.

Still though the hyperbole has livened up the International break i guess

 

[Rossi22]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

AVB's master-plan:

Crystal Palace (A) - We huffed and puffed and fluked a win against the league's s***est club with a dodgy penalty that being kindest would be considered 50/50
Swansea (H) - Again, we huffed and puffed and at least the penalty was actually merited in this game. Did we actually create a chance apart from this? I'm not sure, but I seem to remember Paulinho blazing over so that might be 1!
Arsenal (A) - Back down to earth, we didn't look like scoring after conceding and so it's 270 minutes without a goal from open play!
Norwich (H)) - blimey, we scored! Twice! Don't get carried away with our best performance so far this season, though, as this lot got spannered 7-0 later on in the season!
Cardiff (A) - Another 90 goalless minutes…good job we had injury time to grab the winner! That Lamela chap set it up, wonder why he never plays?
Chelsea (H) - For 45 minutes we looked good, but for 45 minutes we also got our asses handed to us. Mourinho almost pulled it out the bag and AVB looked clueless as to how to change it. Good job that cheeky boy Torres wanted to get to the showers first to stop Ashley from stealing his body-wash!
West Ham (H) - Wow, 3 whole goals! Only, they weren't scored by Spurs. West Ham played without a striker. They didn't have any fit ones, it didn't matter, as we were so bad. Humiliated at home by a team as poor as them….words fail us!
Aston Villa (A) - Another boring game, we don't look like scoring until Andros decides to whip in a cross for a change rather than shooting….oh, he mis-hit his cross like he does all his shots and it went in! That was lucky!
Hull (H) - See Crystal Palace, we fluke a win against a very undeserving Hull side, who created the better chances in the match. Sucker punched by another 50/50 handball call, we again never look like scoring.
Everton (A) - neither side create anything and the Premiership's dullest ever game fizzles out into a drab draw
Saudi Sportswashing Machine (H) - Football is a Krul game, but to be honest, for all we might have been unlucky, overall you could hardly say this defeat wasn't coming.

Agree completely but people don't want to see it. The thing is, this isn't something new, most games we played last season could've been described similarly but with "then Bale scored" added onto the end. There's a saying "it's better to be lucky than good" but AVB's luck will run out soon and then we'll see what he really has.

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

I think the same points were being 'discussed' before NWNDs thread was started - nothings changed other than we now know a couple of posters are ready to call it a day with the manager.

Still though the hyperbole has livened up the International break i guess

Don't get me started. I'm so bored without proper football.

 

[milo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Agree completely but people don't want to see it. The thing is, this isn't something new, most games we played last season could've been described similarly but with "then Bale scored" added onto the end. There's a saying "it's better to be lucky than good" but AVB's luck will run out soon and then we'll see what he really has.

That is one way of looking at it, the other is that he had a team short on match winners last season and he devised a system to maximize the impact of the only top quality one that he had.

This season, that match winner has gone. In his place we have a better spread of quality across the squad which in time should make us less predictable but it is taking a while to bed in.

I think that people have to be realistic, we are massively out spent by several other clubs in terms of net transfer spend and wages. We have done really well these last ten years to be in the chase (most of the time). If we want to take the next step up then it is going to take more than picking the best 11 players week in week out and hoping for the best.

This all might not work out but it is worth a bloody good try and we as fans, should at least try to hold our nerve and give it the time it needs see whether it will be successful.

 

[Baleforce]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

i know this will get seen by some as making excuses but my opinion is that this season is a reset, last year most of the deals were in the pipeline before we hired AVB, he worked with the squad that we had and did a decent job, now he has added quite a few new faces to the squad (some of whom were on loan last season) and the bonding process has had to begin again, I think patience will pay off

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Milo and Galeforce, agree completely

 

[Jordinho]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

	Goals	Shots PG (On Target)	In 6 Yards Box	In 18 Yards Box	Outside
Arsenal	22	13.9 (6)	5%	58%	37%
Liverpool	21	16 (6.2)	7%	48%	45%
Southampton	15	13.6 (4.8)	5%	55%	40%
Chelsea	18	17 (5.5)	10%	44%	46%
Manchester Utd	18	13 (4.9)	6%	52%	41%
Everton	14	13.9 (4.7)	7%	50%	43%
Tottenham	9	18.7 (6.6)	4%	39%	57%
Emirates Marketing Project	28	17.4 (6.5)	7%	59%	34%
Saudi Sportswashing Machine	15	15.1 (5.1)	8%	32%	60%
West Brom	12	11.3 (3.2)	4%	56%	40%
Aston Villa	11	12.7 (3.4)	1%	44%	55%
Hull	9	11.1 (2.7)	7%	43%	51%
Swansea	15	13.4 (5.5)	7%	48%	45%
Cardiff	9	9.7 (2.6)	7%	43%	50%
Norwich	9	12.7 (3.8)	8%	42%	50%
West Ham	9	12.5 (3)	8%	54%	38%
Stoke	10	10.9 (3.5)	11%	44%	45%
Fulham	10	7.9 (3)	6%	38%	56%
Sunderland	8	11 (2.4)	3%	42%	55%
Crystal Palace	6	10.6 (2.9)	7%	34%	59%

All stats from http://www.whoscored.com

We've had the most attempts on goal. I think it's fair to say we've suffered from poor finishing and some bad luck. City put 7 past Norwich and 4 past Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Manchester Utd to put them ahead of the rest.

As for who's had the easiest fixtures, I've added up the difficulty of the teams faced based on their position in the table. Arsenal = 20, Liverpool = 19, Southampton = 18 and so on. Also included are points taken from points available:

	Home	Points	Away	Points
Arsenal	53	12/15	41	13/18
Liverpool	53	15/18	52	8/15
Southampton	19	11/15	65	11/18
Chelsea	53	16/18	63	5/15
Manchester Utd	71	11/18	45	9/15
Everton	63	11/15	42	9/18
Tottenham	57	10/18	53	10/15
Emirates Marketing Project	58	15/15	45	4/18

 

[Kingdawson]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

"poor finishing"..is that another word for hardly create any clear cut chances? :ross:

"Bad luck"...other then the game last week can you point me to our apparent "bad luck" please?


This is the thing with certain stats. Any man and his dog can see we create hardly any clear cut chances in most of our games but the fact that we've had a lot of shots per game will lead some to use this as some sort of conclusive evidence that the problems is everything but the fact that we create **** all. We will ignore the fact that these shots are mostly Townsend pot shots and other half chances...hell most are not even half chances.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: ***The Official AVB Discussion Thread***

Yeah it's clearly a creation problem as far as im concerned, although i do feel that we have had enough chances to have a much better goals scored record.