markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
At new training ground
-
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Andre Villas-Boas - Head Coach
- Thread starter Bale
- Start date
africanspurs
Justin Edinburgh
thats bad management though. thats not how you treat egos like that if you want to achieve things with those people in the dressing room. not if you're wet behind the ears like AVB was. Alex ferguson? sure...he can do whatever.......a guy younger than a superstar thats earning twice your money?
not good, find another way. if thats what he is about i'd go out on a limb and say that he may be a good tactician but he would be a brick manager
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
If Alex and Anelka arent in his plans, and then start causing trouble - what would you have him do?
linnet_spur
Pascal Chimbonda
At new training ground
Not fond of the new away shirt
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
I'm not really concerned with AVB's man management - it seems like something he could develop over time, since plenty of people are not born with natural leadership and charisma. He strikes me as a studious type, not an extrovert who spent his youth as an alpha male type who socialized naturally with 'the boys' - but it's not uncommon for the quiet ones to develop into great leaders when they prove themselves worthy of respect.
Of course, the question is whether he can survive long enough here to pick up that sense of authority. If we allow him to bring in his own players - who will probably be young and in need of coaching - then I think they will bond much more readily with him than the Chelsea players who still longed for Mourinho. No matter how great AVB is, no one is particularly flattering held up beside the Special One.
***
What concerns me much more is his preferred tactics and playing style. I am not a fan of the high line at all unless you have Barca/Spain's ability to keep the ball under intense pressure, and frankly I don't think we have that technical superiority over other teams that Barca/Spain do. While constricting space and always remaining near the ball or in possession of it is very useful for defensive purposes (except for the occasions they get in behind you), the main problem I see with the high line and camping in the opponent's half is in offense - it restricts our own space to attack, and it is far too tempting to start pinging in high crosses (Chelsea were the second highest crossers in the league last season, behind Liverpool).
I really dislike crosses as a tactic. It seems to me the easiest chance to defend - just see Germany vs Italy - particularly for crappy teams who rely on donkey CBs, while throughballs on the break produce much higher-quality chances. I don't want us to sit deep by any means, and I am not a fan of the kamikaze end-to-end type of stuff we saw in too many away games last season, but we have to figure out how to "lure" teams to come into our half and pressurize/intercept them quickly to find space in behind. We can't just sit in their half like Liverpool and Chelsea did last season. Look at how Liverpool fans keep complaining about how many "chances" they created last season, as if it was only bad luck that kept them from scoring the most goals in the league - but how great were those chances? Nearly all of them were difficult shots and crosses into packed penalty boxes!
I'm also worried about AVB's apparent obsession with the 4-3-3. I like the formation, but I don't think we should be purists about it, particularly when we don't have unlimited funds to buy the players he wants. It reminds me of Benitez's obsession with his 4-2-3-1, which broke down spectacularly once Alonso left. But hey, if we do stumble upon the right formula, we'll probably be amazing for as long as the system holds.
***
Funnily enough, I'm still "skeptically delighted" that we have AVB, and I applaud Levy's daring to give him a chance. Part of that is probably sheer relief that the Harry era is over - I wasn't a big fan of Harry's lack of vision and coaching, and I really wanted a long-termist approach - hell, maybe we can start buying (and using!) young players again! If anything, I think creating the best scouting system and finding a manager who can recognize and coach talent is much more important than any tactician, who I think we can leave to a No. 2.
If I'm going to judge a manager, I think about:
- ability as a coach to instill a system throughout the entire club, like Wenger
- ability to spot talent (I was actually very impressed by his own signings at Chelsea last season - I don't think Torres, Lukaku, and Cahill can be considered AVB's)
- ability to bring through young talent like SAF (still open-ended in this regard, as he's too inexperienced to have a record here)
- tactical nous
- strategic vision (tied closely with coaching and young player acquisition and development) - I think AVB has a very strong vision here, I'm just not sure if I agree with it. But it's better than having no vision at all, like with Harry.
- man management . . . which doesn't necessarily mean arm around the shoulder (again I hold up stubborn ol' SAF as the paragon)
AVB doesn't seem to tick all the boxes there (yet
) but he strikes me as a real student of the game and someone who will push himself to keep learning. We are a good fit with each other - the talent is there, the potential is there, just not quite the execution. I am willing to give him plenty of time to prove himself, so long as I can see signs of progress for the long term.
Of course, the question is whether he can survive long enough here to pick up that sense of authority. If we allow him to bring in his own players - who will probably be young and in need of coaching - then I think they will bond much more readily with him than the Chelsea players who still longed for Mourinho. No matter how great AVB is, no one is particularly flattering held up beside the Special One.
***
What concerns me much more is his preferred tactics and playing style. I am not a fan of the high line at all unless you have Barca/Spain's ability to keep the ball under intense pressure, and frankly I don't think we have that technical superiority over other teams that Barca/Spain do. While constricting space and always remaining near the ball or in possession of it is very useful for defensive purposes (except for the occasions they get in behind you), the main problem I see with the high line and camping in the opponent's half is in offense - it restricts our own space to attack, and it is far too tempting to start pinging in high crosses (Chelsea were the second highest crossers in the league last season, behind Liverpool).
I really dislike crosses as a tactic. It seems to me the easiest chance to defend - just see Germany vs Italy - particularly for crappy teams who rely on donkey CBs, while throughballs on the break produce much higher-quality chances. I don't want us to sit deep by any means, and I am not a fan of the kamikaze end-to-end type of stuff we saw in too many away games last season, but we have to figure out how to "lure" teams to come into our half and pressurize/intercept them quickly to find space in behind. We can't just sit in their half like Liverpool and Chelsea did last season. Look at how Liverpool fans keep complaining about how many "chances" they created last season, as if it was only bad luck that kept them from scoring the most goals in the league - but how great were those chances? Nearly all of them were difficult shots and crosses into packed penalty boxes!
I'm also worried about AVB's apparent obsession with the 4-3-3. I like the formation, but I don't think we should be purists about it, particularly when we don't have unlimited funds to buy the players he wants. It reminds me of Benitez's obsession with his 4-2-3-1, which broke down spectacularly once Alonso left. But hey, if we do stumble upon the right formula, we'll probably be amazing for as long as the system holds.
***
Funnily enough, I'm still "skeptically delighted" that we have AVB, and I applaud Levy's daring to give him a chance. Part of that is probably sheer relief that the Harry era is over - I wasn't a big fan of Harry's lack of vision and coaching, and I really wanted a long-termist approach - hell, maybe we can start buying (and using!) young players again! If anything, I think creating the best scouting system and finding a manager who can recognize and coach talent is much more important than any tactician, who I think we can leave to a No. 2.
If I'm going to judge a manager, I think about:
- ability as a coach to instill a system throughout the entire club, like Wenger
- ability to spot talent (I was actually very impressed by his own signings at Chelsea last season - I don't think Torres, Lukaku, and Cahill can be considered AVB's)
- ability to bring through young talent like SAF (still open-ended in this regard, as he's too inexperienced to have a record here)
- tactical nous
- strategic vision (tied closely with coaching and young player acquisition and development) - I think AVB has a very strong vision here, I'm just not sure if I agree with it. But it's better than having no vision at all, like with Harry.
- man management . . . which doesn't necessarily mean arm around the shoulder (again I hold up stubborn ol' SAF as the paragon)
AVB doesn't seem to tick all the boxes there (yet
) but he strikes me as a real student of the game and someone who will push himself to keep learning. We are a good fit with each other - the talent is there, the potential is there, just not quite the execution. I am willing to give him plenty of time to prove himself, so long as I can see signs of progress for the long term.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
For all we know, the source of all the leaks from the Chelsea training ground could have come from Anelka, Alex and a few of the mouthy reserve team members that weren't getting game time under him. If that was the case, he then decides to establish his authority by banishing them, trying to show the squad that he is in charge, he has the backing of the owner and won't stand for it. What should he do exactly? Say 'don't worry Nic, you've tried to completely undermine me but it's ok, give me 110% on Saturday!'. The players would then probably be even worse.
I'm not saying that happened. Maybe something else happened entirely. Maybe nothing whatsoever happened. But it was quite a strange move. I can't remember how much he used Alex but he definitely used Anelka earlier on in the season. I'm sure something must have happened in order for him to take that drastic action, it's fair to say that he wouldn't have done it for absolutely no reason.
We will never know, but it makes sense that they did something to lead to that treatment. So far it's been painted as crazy AVB flipping out, which is totally out of character from everything he was like before.
I'm not saying that happened. Maybe something else happened entirely. Maybe nothing whatsoever happened. But it was quite a strange move. I can't remember how much he used Alex but he definitely used Anelka earlier on in the season. I'm sure something must have happened in order for him to take that drastic action, it's fair to say that he wouldn't have done it for absolutely no reason.
We will never know, but it makes sense that they did something to lead to that treatment. So far it's been painted as crazy AVB flipping out, which is totally out of character from everything he was like before.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
Awesome post.
All I would say on his tactics, is that he has given interviews before specifically addressing the point, that you need to be able to lure teams out to you. That even if an opposition defends very deep there are still spaces on the pitch we can use to our advantage. I have no concerns there.
Also, he got Academica playing a good type of football and getting results. Maybe it wasn't his 'ideal' in terms of a high line and constant pressing, because it's almost certain he didn't have the perfect players for that. But he did what he could with them, relative to what they were capable of, and I think he'd so the same for us.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
milo
Jack L. Jones
I'm very concerned about it. There are plenty of people who are not natural man managers and get things wrong but he got it very wrong at Chelsea. If he cannot see that excluding players could alienate the dressing room then I think that really calls into question his judgement. I am also concerned that there appeared to be a split in the squad at Chelsea and that the team did not play together. I agree that it is a difficult dressing room to manage and that Abramovic not backing him to do the job that he was hired to do, made it harder but I do not think that empathy or judgement are skills that are learnable and I worry how this will play out at Spurs.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
I'm not against 4-3-3, but I'm not as in love with it as most modern football fans seem to be. The main problem for me is that you can only play 1 striker in the middle, that creates problems as all of the strikers want to play in the middle. David Villa has got the hump about being shunted out wide, Torres has too, Sturridge went on record last season as saying he wanted to play in the middle.
Italy have proven that you can win by playing two strikers, provided you have the right players to fit the system of course.
Italy have proven that you can win by playing two strikers, provided you have the right players to fit the system of course.
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
Don't sign strikers to play out wide?
Italy have shown that, but Spain have shown you can do better with none.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
You need more than 1 striker who can play in the middle in your squad.
Spain could have easily won by playing Torres also. In fact, they looked even more threatening in some games when he came on.
milo
Jack L. Jones
How many players do you think that we have in our squad who would be comfortable playing without a striker against Saudi Sportswashing Machine next month?
Spursalot
Jimmy McCormick
I was more trying to point out how useless pointing out italy playing with two strikers was..
Teams that play with 1 can be successful, as can teams that play with 2, or even 0. But that would be a rare case..
Yet at Porto all the players lauded him for the fantastic unity he fostered amongst the team... I think it's more to do with many of the Chelsea players being utter cvnts, no manager has been able to manage them effectively since Mourinho apart from Hiddink and that was always a short-term measure. I think Di Matteo is just a puppet/ mate of the players who will do whatever they say.
We have a young and impressionable squad who are much more likely to buy into AVB and his ideas as very few of them are as old as AVB and we already play a similar brand of football, two things which couldn't be said about Chelsea.
Italy played without wingers. We have Bale and Lennon. No formation in the modern era will work with both wingers and 2 strikers, it offers far too much space through the middle. Either you can play with 2 interiores as Villarreal did so successfully a few years back with Cani and Cazorla, or you can play a narrow 4 as Milan and Italy do/have done. And even then the strikers are going to be spending plenty of time in wide areas...
We by no means have to play a striker on the wing, I'm not sure how you've come to that conclusion. Bale on one side, Lennon/ another wide player who scores more goals on the other, Ade (hopefully) through the middle. Ade's backup doesn't have to be played on the wing for no reason (assuming we would sign another striker more similar to him).
Who even says we'll definitely play 4-3-3? What about 4-2-3-1 with VDV and Sandro deep and Sigurdsson ahead of them? I seriously doubt AVB is so tactically inflexible, he isn't a fool.
metalgear
Luka Modric
I'll bet those twos are ITKs.