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American politics

Robspur12 said:
I am by no means an expert but it appears to me that all the lives lost over the last 20 years were a complete waste and Afghanistan left to become a rogue state again. So sad.
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The current situation in Afghanistan is the culmination of 20 years of bad decisions and worse execution. This end was coming a long time back.

The attack on Kabul has started. :(
 
scaramanga said:
Leftists: Get the fudge out of Afghanistan
Also leftists: Why are you leaving Afghanistan?
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No generalisation there of course. I consider myself left of centre and was happy to support invasion if it meant that the brutal regime that was harbouring terrorists and subjugating its people could be overthrown. I don’t understand how after 20 years of presence we have not managed to either weaken that regime sufficiently so that it could not return or ensure that the government was able to govern securely and repel forces that once more pose a grave threat to its people and the west. We are almost back to where we were in 2001. So why pull out the troops now it feels like we are abandoning the people. Expect more refugees and people desperately trying to escape from Afghanistan.
 
scaramanga said:
Leftists: Get the fudge out of Afghanistan
Also leftists: Why are you leaving Afghanistan?
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As ever, you mangle things to suit your own agenda.

Many 'leftists' I know have understood for decades that the last thing you do is withdraw from the region for a multitude of reasons, not the last of which a debt to the Afghans for their help!!!!

Still, I suppose that is a typical EDL like response (see what I did there Capt?!!!)
 
Robspur12 said:
No generalisation there of course. I consider myself left of centre and was happy to support invasion if it meant that the brutal regime that was harbouring terrorists and subjugating its people could be overthrown. I don’t understand how after 20 years of presence we have not managed to either weaken that regime sufficiently so that it could not return or ensure that the government was able to govern securely and repel forces that once more pose a grave threat to its people and the west. We are almost back to where we were in 2001. So why pull out the troops now it feels like we are abandoning the people. Expect more refugees and people desperately trying to escape from Afghanistan.
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I JUST wrote similar after our fave Troll, well, trolled us.
 
DTA said:
What the fûck did they expect? I swear they do these things being led with people with no knowledge of the people and culture.

They spent how much? At least a trillion I have read and on what???. Absolutely insane.

And the way they have pulled out is the icing on the cake.
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The continued lack of cultural knowledge is, at this point, a choice. There are no excuses. It is appalling.
 
Robspur12 said:
I am by no means an expert but it appears to me that all the lives lost over the last 20 years were a complete waste and Afghanistan left to become a rogue state again. So sad.
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The unpalatable truth is that they needed to do what China are doing to the Muslims they don't want.

Just in this case it is the taliban and their children you have to kill. You then create an industry in the country selling something the rest of the world needs. You use the tax revenue to fund a well paid army. You keep a small western presence their with drones patrolling borders and carpet bomb at the first sign of attacks.

The West will never have the nerve to kill the taliban fighters and their children and it is why by the end of this century everyone in the UK will be speaking Chinese and eating with chopsticks.
 
Robspur12 said:
No generalisation there of course. I consider myself left of centre and was happy to support invasion if it meant that the brutal regime that was harbouring terrorists and subjugating its people could be overthrown. I don’t understand how after 20 years of presence we have not managed to either weaken that regime sufficiently so that it could not return or ensure that the government was able to govern securely and repel forces that once more pose a grave threat to its people and the west. We are almost back to where we were in 2001. So why pull out the troops now it feels like we are abandoning the people. Expect more refugees and people desperately trying to escape from Afghanistan.
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  1. They failed to continue to clean out the Taliban from Pakistan.
  2. They allowed the locals to play a part in politics/the military.
 
scaramanga said:
Leftists: Get the fudge out of Afghanistan
Also leftists: Why are you leaving Afghanistan?
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I don't agree with the leftist bit because tbh both sides are playing that game, albeit for different reasons.
But at some point there has to be realisation that there is no easy answer here, no matter what you do there is going to be misery and suffering.
Understanding and finding the route that minimises the suffering is the key.
Intially some will still suffer, some will lose some freedoms, but it can get better in time.
Its not going to happen overnight, it probably won't be a fun ride, but it needs to be done.
 
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