American politics

[Bedfordspurs]

If George Floyd was white that murderer would have never have crushed his throat. This is a fact about America and how racist the system is against black men. I don't need proof that Chauvin was racist. I know the whole situation was due to the fact that in the US Black lives matter less than others when it comes to the Police. There is your racism. And there is the thing that many folks privilege does not allow them to accept.

I do agree the police in America have a massive racism problem
There are some shocking examples of their behaviour. I even used one in my comments above

 

[thfcsteff]

I believe that to call something racist as a fact you need some kind of evidence.
Otherwise it’s speciation and supposition
One situation was the police looking for a black person and shooting a black person... so that’s race. I mean they wouldn’t have shot a white person and claimed mistaken identity
The other, so far, hasn’t been shown to be that
The fact the policemen who did it has previous makes it stand out that he is a horrible cnut. He may also be a racist. I don’t know as I haven’t heard or seen why facts in that front yet.
So what I’ll say is that racism is racism when someone is doing something racist and discriminating to acting on someone’s race and colour. I mean the attacks in Asians in America is exactly that. People are being attacked because of the “Chinese virus” abs trumps rambles that have caused additional hatred of anyone who may even look slightly Asian. That’s clearly racist
The police attending a call to a suspected crime isn’t racist is it?
the use of excessive force isn’t racist, it’s plainly wrong and it meant someone died from it. That’s all factually correct so far.

I know you mean well, but this is just so "off" that again, I don't know where to start.

I will simply answer one question you asked. No, attending a call to a suspected crime isn't racist. Obviously. It is attending a call.
I think I just have to accept that you simply cannot see the issues and problems here. The question is whether you can accept that.

p.s. I left links re:Chauvin's history and how his collegues/bosses perceived his reaction to things. That tells you a story.

 

[LutonSpurs]

I do agree the police in America have a massive racism problem
There are some shocking examples of their behaviour. I even used one in my comments above

And George Floyd's death is an example of it.

 

[milo]

I'm a middle aged white man. I have lived in some of the poorest areas of this country. I have never been stopped and searched by the police. I don't have any black friends who could say the same. That's institutional racism.

 

[thfcsteff]

Young enough - doesn't make the statement inaccurate.

I'm sure I could see from other perspectives but mine is the one that matters - it would be redundant.

Trust me, it is inaccurate and any miner of the era would be disgusted by your inference.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I know you mean well, but this is just so "off" that again, I don't know where to start.

I will simply answer one question you asked. No, attending a call to a suspected crime isn't racist. Obviously. It is attending a call.
I think I just have to accept that you simply cannot see the issues and problems here. The question is whether you can accept that.

The problem in this instance is that a cop killed a man making a bumbled attempt to restrain him. And in America that cop could possibly get away with it by arguing something else. That’s the crazy thing

 

[thfcsteff]

The problem in this instance is that a cop killed a man making a bumbled attempt to restrain him. And in America that cop could possibly get away with it by arguing something else. That’s the crazy thing

Bedford.
There was nothing "bumbled" about the "attempt to restrain him".

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'm a middle aged white man. I have lived in some of the poorest areas of this country. I have never been stopped and searched by the police. I don't have any black friends who could say the same. That's institutional racism.

I’m a middle aged white man
I’ve been stopped and searched
I’ve been stopped and searched with my black friends too
I was once attacked by some Indian lads trying to find a white guy (I was 13). My Indian friends found out who did it and gave them a kicking
I’ve cheered on black players, white players, Asian players... even Russians playing for Spurs.
i’ve also dug out people for making racist comments about people. But in those instances I was there so I knew what happened. Once was at the lane and was some guys commenting on a Korean fan. TBF when they were confronted and theh explained their comments it was semi innocent.
i also once confronted the police at Tottenham for letting a your sell a ticket to an Asian fan... waiting for him to go, then nabbing the fan who brought the ticket for buying it and “recovering” the ticket. I mean that was racist behaviour by the police in my opinion and they didn’t like it when I said it. One of the coppers was black and he even said he couldn’t be racist.
My black mate once got stopped swimming with me when we were kids as the life guard didn’t see a black parent in the pool area (he was with me and my family) so I kicked off. I was thrown out TBF as I called the life guard a lot of names. But I also lost my place in the rugby side to my bacon mate as the captain said “we will have him because he is black so he must be fast”. I didn’t object or defend him.... as he was faster than me. He was actually a better player than me TBF.
I mean we can all find good and bad examples in any situation. All I look for are things I can back with facts, not conjecture or speculation.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Bedford.
There was nothing "bumbled" about the "attempt to restrain him".

True
Not sure what the better word is for his 17 mean death kneel.
But as I’ve said he should be going down for murder.
The guy has previous. It may have even been on a black kid. I don’t know the facts on that one.
And he could be racist. I don’t know. I haven’t heard any evidence to say he is. What I do know, is he killed a person.

 

[LutonSpurs]

The oddest thing is how some people of a certain tinge desperately want this not to be about race. It says everything. Take a moment and look at yourself lads.

 

[milo]

I’m a middle aged white man
I’ve been stopped and searched
I’ve been stopped and searched with my black friends too
I was once attacked by some Indian lads trying to find a white guy (I was 13). My Indian friends found out who did it and gave them a kicking
I’ve cheered on black players, white players, Asian players... even Russians playing for Spurs.
i’ve also dug out people for making racist comments about people. But in those instances I was there so I knew what happened. Once was at the lane and was some guys commenting on a Korean fan. TBF when they were confronted and theh explained their comments it was semi innocent.
i also once confronted the police at Tottenham for letting a your sell a ticket to an Asian fan... waiting for him to go, then nabbing the fan who brought the ticket for buying it and “recovering” the ticket. I mean that was racist behaviour by the police in my opinion and they didn’t like it when I said it. One of the coppers was black and he even said he couldn’t be racist.
My black mate once got stopped swimming with me when we were kids as the life guard didn’t see a black parent in the pool area (he was with me and my family) so I kicked off. I was thrown out TBF as I called the life guard a lot of names. But I also lost my place in the rugby side to my bacon mate as the captain said “we will have him because he is black so he must be fast”. I didn’t object or defend him.... as he was faster than me. He was actually a better player than me TBF.
I mean we can all find good and bad examples in any situation. All I look for are things I can back with facts, not conjecture or speculation.

I think that you have completely missed the point.

 

[scaramanga]

Trust me, it is inaccurate and any miner of the era would be disgusted by your inference.

Of course they think they were in the right. They weren't.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think that you have completely missed the point.

Not really
The point I’m saying is if someone is going to make a comment about someone make sure it’s right.
Otherwise the argument becomes weaker
It’s why things get chucked out of court. I know. I’ve been there and seen it.
If someone is done something wrong whether it be racist, or anything else that’s legitimately offensive then we need more people to call them out for it. That way the necessary action can be taken

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Of course they think they were in the right. They weren't.

How do you know they weren’t?

 

[thfcsteff]

Of course they think they were in the right. They weren't.

By your one lane country road standards no doubt.

Still, let's not lose sight of the fact that you have said those calling Floyd's murder racially motivated are the people who want to riot and loot. Let's not forget you said that.

 

[scaramanga]

How do you know they weren’t?

Because they wanted the country to prop up a failing industry, because they went on strike, because they fought with police.

 

[scaramanga]

By your one lane country road standards no doubt.

Still, let's not lose sight of the fact that you have said those calling Floyd's murder racially motivated are the people who want to riot and loot. Let's not forget you said that.

Why would anyone want to forget that?

 

[milo]

Not really
The point I’m saying is if someone is going to make a comment about someone make sure it’s right.
Otherwise the argument becomes weaker
It’s why things get chucked out of court. I know. I’ve been there and seen it.
If someone is done something wrong whether it be racist, or anything else that’s legitimately offensive then we need more people to call them out for it. That way the necessary action can be taken

I think that you'd do well to talk less about your lived experience and listen more to the people who say that their lived experience is institutional racism within the police.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I think that you'd do well to talk less about your lived experience and listen more to the people who say that their lived experience is institutional racism within the police.

No
Your relating institutional racism with a court case where so far there has been no evidence of it. That doesn’t mean it want racist, it means there is no evidence of it. So any view that it is, is conjecture.
I always prefer to use facts. It’s why I shy away from the press as their spin and lies are dangerous.
It can work both ways too
People like Tommy Robinson thrive off conjecture and just enough facts to spin a story. He has created a group of cavemen who follow him because he voices his opinion... tops it up with enough basic facts that means they can check him out and create a nasty cult

 

[AuroRaman]

No
Your relating institutional racism with a court case where so far there has been no evidence of it. That doesn’t mean it want racist, it means there is no evidence of it. So any view that it is, is conjecture.
I always prefer to use facts. It’s why I shy away from the press as their spin and lies are dangerous.
It can work both ways too
People like Tommy Robinson thrive off conjecture and just enough facts to spin a story. He has created a group of cavemen who follow him because he voices his opinion... tops it up with enough basic facts that means they can check him out and create a nasty cult

The first word of your response to that post is exactly what is part of the problem.