A Word for the Defence

[billyiddo]

Listen buddy all i done in the beginning was ask for a little patience and not put too much stock in to what happens whilst the team and manager adapt to the changes of the summer - if you think that's sticking my fingers in my ears and ignoring any negatives then there's not much hope for any sort reasonable debate as you clearly read what you want to read and not what is actually written

 

[metalgear]

The problem with our attack is that they're simply not putting enough chances which come their way into the back of the net.

In fact, the 310 goalscoring opportunities Spurs have had so far this season is a Premier League record (Emirates Marketing Project are next highest with 300) but we've only converted 42 of them into goals for a rate of 13.5% - only Norwich & QPR have worse conversion rates than Spurs...

Premier League Results, League Table, Goal Statistics & Opportunities for Season 2012-13

says it all. not being able to score just gives the opponent to try to get one against us. we need better strikers and defoe is not good enough.

 

[onlyme]

I think the reason that we are improving defensively has more to do with the way that our opponents play, than how we play ourselves.

A lot of sides, most notably including Stoke and Swansea, come play us with the intention not to lose. The opposition put ten men behind the ball and barely look to surge forwards. That way, we should dominate possession and will naturally give away less goals as the ball will be allowed in areas that won't hurt us defensively. So it's not really that impressive that we pass through those games keeping clean sheets.

We look too under pressure in games where teams DO attack us. We seem to allow players in to areas that can hurt us, we give away cheap free kicks and Lloris has bailed us out a number of times too, perhaps to be expected as a goalkeeper will save the team from time to time.

When we start dealing with opposition attacks regularly before they get in and around the penalty area, I will then say we are improving defensively.

Good point. Some may like to bury their heads in the sand but the fact is Leeds 2 not very good strikers caused us big problems and we were very fortunate not to be more punished by the WBA pair. The constant was Verts. I am not trying to slate him I am just suggesting that he needs to up his game IMO, especially against a 4-4-2.
It will be interesting to see how Pardew sets up the barcodes after the mauling we gave them last season

 

[Spursalot]

Good point. Some may like to bury their heads in the sand but the fact is Leeds 2 not very good strikers caused us big problems and we were very fortunate not to be more punished by the WBA pair. The constant was Verts. I am not trying to slate him I am just suggesting that he needs to up his game IMO, especially against a 4-4-2.
It will be interesting to see how Pardew sets up the barcodes after the mauling we gave them last season

Having watched the West Brom game again it was not Verts that was the issue.


Verts won pretty much every ball in the air that he challenged for, his partner on the other hand was no-where near that successful.

 

[El Guepardo]

Yup, Verts definitely played a shocker v Leeds but he played ok v WBA. I'm looking forward to Kaboul & Vertinghen lining up together.

 

[metalgear]

i thought we looked worse without Verts yesterday. that goal from gouffran could have been avoided if 3 players had not conspired to go for the same cross.

 

[onlyme]

i thought we looked worse without Verts yesterday. that goal from gouffran could have been avoided if 3 players had not conspired to go for the same cross.

Absolutely disagree. Saudi Sportswashing Machine strikers got nothing all game and Dawson did what he had to do getting in the way of the shot. Both Les and Caulker were "up for it."

Verts said early doors he was surprised by the English game but in the last couple of games he has looked a little disgusted by it. He is a class player but both our cup exits are down to him and I want a bit more spirit added to his undoubted class.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Hmm...but would any of you feel confident that we could shut out an Arsenal or a Chelski when they are at their flowing best?:-k

 

[onlyme]

Hmm...but would any of you feel confident that we could shut out an Arsenal or a Chelski when they are at their flowing best?:-k

I assume you are talking about Dawson? He ruled Drogba for 3 games and got done by him in at least one, maybe two?
I love the way AVB is rotating our CBs. Horses for courses.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I assume you are talking about Dawson? He ruled Drogba for 3 games and got done by him in at least one, maybe two?
I love the way AVB is rotating our CBs. Horses for courses.

Not talking about Dawson particularly, but all as a unit. It is good that AVB is rotating, but whilst I think our defence is good, I still think the kind of swift interchanging of positions and quick movement that Arsenal and Chelski at their best could leave them all for dead. Though of course this may depend on the CM pairing in front of them...

 

[onlyme]

Not talking about Dawson particularly, but all as a unit. It is good that AVB is rotating, but whilst I think our defence is good, I still think the kind of swift interchanging of positions and quick movement that Arsenal and Chelski at their best could leave them all for dead. Though of course this may depend on the CM pairing in front of them...

Fair point. We have lost to both Chelsea and Arsenal this term and 9 goals conceded.

 

[seaside spur]

Earlier in the season a lot of people criticised AVB for picking Gallas and Friedel instead of Dawson and Lloris, moaning about how many goals we were conceding. But people leapt to his defence, saying it was just a matter of the team adjusting to the new system, playing a high line and a pressing game is difficult don't ya know.

We are now a far more stable defensive unit and it's great to see the high line and pressing game in full effect. Attack is the best form of defence, and with teams pushed back into their own half it becomes harder for them to attack us, other than with hopeless punts forward that we can deal with. The effectiveness of this strategy co-incided nicely with....wait for it....Dawson and Lloris coming in the team. For all the talk about systems and implementing new styles, it's only a good idea if you have the players suited to play them. Gallas is slow and is a risk in a high line, Friedel is not good enough on the ball and doesn't come off his line quick enough to play the sweeper keeper role. I'm glad AVB has finally seen the light.

And before somebody goes "HOW DARE YOU QUESTION A PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL MANAGER, DO YOU REALLY THINK AVB DIDN'T NOTICE THIS STUFF? WHY DO YOU THINK HE CHANGED IT?" - it wasn't like this stuff wasn't pointed out ages before he actually DID change it by several people on this board.

It seems to be the general consensus that Gallas is not first choice under AVB,i disagree.
As it seems we are taking the Europa League very seriously(resting players for the Saudi Sportswashing Machine game), i fully expect Gallas to be first choice and starting for the Lyon game,we will see.........

 

[braineclipse]

The 1-1 goal against Saudi Sportswashing Machine was defensively just about one of the worst 5-10 seconds I've seen from a team this season. Several players were involved, Parker, Naughton, Caulker and Walker at least. Although I think both Dembele (where was he?) and Bale might deserve an honorable mention. Of the players nearby the ball only Dawson came away without blame in my eyes.

Won't bother listing all the individual mistakes for now, but they had a throw in at the half way line, we were organized and should be in control. 3-4 seconds and a couple of passes later Sissoko was in behind us, a second or two after that Gouffran was receiving the ball unmarked inside the box. That's just not ever acceptable.

I seriously hope AVB or Freund is having a stern word with the lads, this just shouldn't happen and cannot be allowed to happen again.

Other than that individual situation I thought we defended reasonably well against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Apart from giving the ball away once Dawson had a very solid game I though, possibly the best in his recent run of games. Caulker was involved in the goal and also completely lost Cisse for their other big chance in the first half, otherwise solid. I actually thought Naughton did reasonably well defensively, but he has a long way to go offensively, although it's not easy when he's being compared to Ekotto. Walker did well I thought.

 

[DMac]

Fair point. We have lost to both Chelsea and Arsenal this term and 9 goals conceded.

Those two games were hugely unlucky anomalies though. We didn't have Dembele for either game and didn't have Bale for the Chelsea game, and we had to play most of the Arsenal game with 10 men. We didn't do too badly against United's attack.

 

[onlyme]

Those two games were hugely unlucky anomalies though. We didn't have Dembele for either game and didn't have Bale for the Chelsea game, and we had to play most of the Arsenal game with 10 men. We didn't do too badly against United's attack.

One thing is for sure-our defensive record has improved

First 12 games conceded 21 goals

Goals conceded-Number of times conceded

0-1
1-6
2-3
4-1
5-1

Last 14 games 9 goals conceded

Goals conceded-Number of times conceded

0-6
1-7
2-1

 

[glorygloryeze]

*Bump*

I think we need to talk more about the defence, AVB's rotation of the defenders, our overall defensive strategies, the recent patterns of gaols conceded (i.e. is there a pattern?) and what effect Holtby and Siggy's potential contributions in the last 10 games may have.

Ta

 

[glorygloryeze]

Whoops! Bump!

 

[VolSpur]

does anybody feel that Rose could be an upgrade on Benoit next season?

Going forward we're not producing much out wide down the left now that Bale has moved to a more central role. Rose should be able to give us more width and seems more likely to drive down the flank and put in a cross. Benoit tends to sit back quite often (not sure if this is AVB's plan tbf)

 

[Steed Train]

does anybody feel that Rose could be an upgrade on Benoit next season?

Going forward we're not producing much out wide down the left now that Bale has moved to a more central role. Rose should be able to give us more width and seems more likely to drive down the flank and put in a cross. Benoit tends to sit back quite often (not sure if this is AVB's plan tbf)

Bit harsh to make that judgment when he's recently back from injury and looked good offensively vs the goons

 

[Modric THFC]

With our attacking force stumbling along in recent weeks, it's been our defenders who have stepped-up to the plate and produced some great performances to keep us well in the hunt for Champions League Football next season.

Spurs are now unbeaten in the Premier League since mid-December on a run of nine matches (5 wins, 4 draws) in which we've conceded only 4 goals and kept 5 clean sheets...

...we've averaged a goal conceded for every 202.5 minutes played during this current run.

Since this thread was started we haven't kept a clean sheet and conceding a goal every 75 minutes