A Word for the Defence

[SUIYHA]

Was it initially difficult to fit into a new environment?
HL: Not really, as I have already said, the most important thing is to get to know your team mates. I arrived at Spurs quite late, right at the end of the transfer window, and so did not have a lot of time to adapt, I had to get to know my team mates very quickly, because even though I didn’t play in the Premier League straight away I did play in the Europa League and so had to get to know my team mates straight away and training with them every day, getting used to the language, all of that helped as well. So I tried to fit in as quickly as possible, because it is important to do so.



A youtube video likely scripted is your proof? Don't make me laugh.

I don't really see what I'm arguing with here, this is a video of him speaking English published on the day he signed for us. Sure it's not fluent, and of course there will be issues for him settling in to a new environment which is what your quote is about, like there would for anybody moving to a new country. But issues that would affect his footballing ability? It's not like he's expressing deep emotions on the football pitch, I'm sure the words "KYLE, BACK POST!" are not too difficult to remember for someone who already has a basic grasp of the language.

 

[Spursalot]

I don't really see what I'm arguing with here, this is a video of him speaking English published on the day he signed for us. Sure it's not fluent, and of course there will be issues for him settling in to a new environment which is what your quote is about, like there would for anybody moving to a new country. But issues that would affect his footballing ability? It's not like he's expressing deep emotions on the football pitch, I'm sure the words "KYLE, BACK POST!" are not too difficult to remember for someone who already has a basic grasp of the language.

No, he's not expressing deep emotions, however your natural impulse when shouting something is to shout it in your first language. He needed to override that, which takes time.

Exactly, he needed time to settle into the country and get to know his team mates and get used to using the language.


Time that AVB gave him, which is why he is excelling now.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Interesing posts on our pressing, only turning up for half a match and holding back our energy when going 1-0 up.

I'd be interested to hear from Gutter Boy, Syfarer and others about how we compare to Arsenal on these issues. Arsenal seem to continually go for the jugular in terms of their wins, i.e. their goal difference is usually much better than ours when we are at similar places in the table, like right now. When going a goal up Arsenal seem much less interested (capable?) of just conserving energy and 'settling down' but seem more eager to want more blood and score more and more goals.
Are they better at creating lots of good chances?
Are they just blessed with better finishers?
Or are they simply flat-track bullies?

If we end up with similar points you would expect them to have a better goal difference at the current rate (which I have to admit I have nightmares about..)

To be honest, I've not seen enough full Arsenal game over the past few seasons to feel able to comment. Perhaps they do suffer more fatigue/slightly burn themselves out and hence lose more other games?

Re AVB - he absolutely perfected this at Porto. In his season there they lost 1 game all season and drew only 2 (across 5 competitions). He was known for starting to prepare for the next game during the ongoing one. One particular trick was always substituting wide players for CMs at around 70 mins, so they could retain more possession and see out the game resting with ball.

The odd one for us recently was Everton - that was a real relapse of bad old pre-AVB Tottenham; but was perhaps a useful reminder of how far we've come in the last few months.

 

[Golfball]

Right...

1) I'll tell you what 'would have happened'...Hugo might've made a mistake, and Hugo would've been fudging pilloried by a slew of 'experts' screaming that the manager doesn't know what he's doing, etc, etc, Hugo might've made another mistake and then wheee-karaumba, kicking season, thus we end up with a devastated talent.

2) Mate. I trust AVB's daily immersion/knowledge in our club and what it needs more than yours.

In a nutshell. He gave Lloris a breaking in period, he gave Brad the sort of respect that helps both player and dressing room unite, we now have a squad that is absolutely together and an experienced back-up keeper/potential future coach who's knowledge, talent and experience you rarely find.

AVB has executed a masterful situation here.

Come on, I thought this sort of spin was coming to an end. You cant possibly believe that, although what im more interested in as why you feel the need to go to such lengths to spin it.

Quite simply, Lloris is the French national keeper. He's not some kid. He didnt gain anything from sitting on our bench, anything that could have happened by playing him from day 1 could have happened after a few months. The only possibly benefit is that he watched the games from the bench and analysed differences in the way the teams attack - but if that was the intention give him a week with a few dvds. If it was a couple of weeks, your breaking in period theory might be ok but it went on for months. Its not like an outfield player where you can give him 20 minutes in a non risk situation and see how he does. He had played 0 PL games in August, just as he had 0 PL minutes months later - its no different.

On the other hand, leaving him on the bench - it tinkled him off for a start and could have caused a fall out with the boss. It cost us points, we've seen Lloris is a better keeper, our games were tight and he could have been the difference as he has been lately. Yes it was really nice of AVB to give Brad some respect, he did nothing wrong apart from be replaced by a better keeper. However managers get paid to make these decisions and as we know, every point counts. There is no way I could ever imagine a strong manager like Ferguson make that sort of decision, that costs points but leaves a player happier. If anything all it would have done is make Hugo more nervous by delaying and delaying.

It was an a clear AVB mistake if ever I saw one, you bang on about that Harry substitution against Villa but in all honesty you know the probability of making a difference to the game was about 0.1%. Whereas playing Lloris in many games - you have to admit it could have gained us points. If ever there was a chance to put balance in to your AVB opinion and show everyone you arent just going to agree with everything he does, this was it. It doesnt mean you change your overall opinion, it just shows thought has gone into the conclusion, rather than the conclusion formed months ago and the evidence spun to suit it.

And just to add, whereas it was a clear initial mistake, the best managers are the ones that start with an idea and recognise when it is not right and change it. He did. Positive. Thats not the only decision either (Livermore - was in initial plans then changed, Dawson, Hudd - not in plans but has given them both a good deal of minutes). All positive for me.

 

[Golfball]

No, he's not expressing deep emotions, however your natural impulse when shouting something is to shout it in your first language. He needed to override that, which takes time.

Exactly, he needed time to settle into the country and get to know his team mates and get used to using the language.


Time that AVB gave him, which is why he is excelling now.

:ross:

He's the French keeper. He cost 12? million. I think there was always a chance he would excel. But I've heard it all now, we benched a star player in case he forgot what country he was in and shouted in French - I think BAE and Gallas might have been able to cope in this situation.

PS if French players need time settling into England, Im backing Saudi Sportswashing Machine to get relegated.

 

[Spursalot]

'This sort of spin'


What sort of spin?


Do you mean what has actually happened in real life is some sort of spin?


He was introduced slowly and this has lead to a period of games in which we have only conceded four goals in nine games and are unbeaten in that same period.



fudge what 'could have' happened or what 'should have' happened, what did actually happen is why we are in the situation we now find ourselves.


The man we have to credit with that? AVB.

 

[Spursalot]

:ross:

He's the French keeper. He cost 12? million. I think there was always a chance he would excel. But I've heard it all now, we benched a star player in case he forgot what country he was in and shouted in French - I think BAE and Gallas might have been able to cope in this situation.

PS if French players need time settling into England, Im backing Saudi Sportswashing Machine to get relegated.

There was a chance he would excel yes, there was also a chance he would not. Fortunately for him AVB increased the odds in his favour.

The price of a player is irrelevant in discussing whether they will flop or not.


You are not a star player until you start performing, you are claiming he was a star player for us before he had even played a match? What a joke.


What happened happened, and is why we are all sitting here meant to be discussing how our defensive unit looks good on current form.



Communication is much more important for Goalkeepers than for outfield players, but don't let that stop you.

 

[Golfball]

We defend as a team now - all 11 players press in a very organised way. I've never seen a Tottenham team defend so smartly before.

I think there is wayyyy to much thought going into this. Or short memories. We've actually been good defensively for a few years as a team. We are on course to concede more than last season.

However for me the real indication will be when we are able to play really good fluent attacking football and it not be at the expense of conceding lots. At the moment we are defending well, cant deny that, but it is clearly down to negative tactics and sacrificing more productive attacks. I heard AVB say our second half against WBA was a real show, this worried me as we were limited to shots from outside the box and didnt create much even against 10 men.

Our last 4 league games have seen us score 3 and let 2 in, gaining 6 points. Alex Ferguson made the point in the past that those are the games he wins the league in as some managers settle for the draw whereas he will go for it, take a loss 1 week but still come out of that spell with more points.

Ive not seen us play like this since George Graham was at the club. Just with much better players. Its not the worst thing if it keeps us in the top 4, its not traditional Spurs though. Say what you like about Harry, but the thing that pleased me (and surprised me) the most was the way he demanded we play football, making several references to the tradition of the club - showed he really respected our name within the English game.

 

[Golfball]

'This sort of spin'


What sort of spin?


Do you mean what has actually happened in real life is some sort of spin?


He was introduced slowly and this has lead to a period of games in which we have only conceded four goals in nine games and are unbeaten in that same period.



fudge what 'could have' happened or what 'should have' happened, what did actually happen is why we are in the situation we now find ourselves.


The man we have to credit with that? AVB.

](*,) NO. This is ridiculous. Never seen fans go to this sort of length to turn a mistake into a positive.

He was not introduced slowly. He wasnt introduced at all and then was. That sort of introduction could have happened months before. And do you even remember what happened ? He was a bit shaky at the start and Arsenal put 5 past him in his second game. If we had got that out of the way early on, we'd have seen much more of this benefit we now see.

What DID happen was he didnt play in games that he should have, it cost us points. And his agent requesting him to be sold in Jan might have forced AVBs hand as well.

 

[thejazzman]

To me it's no coincidence that a lot of the chances we give away are mistakes by Walker/Dawson.

I thought this, but I saw a stat a couple of days ago that says that the majority of the chances we concede to the opposition are from our left, and it got me thinking.

I think Dawson was brought back into the team to help improve play down our right, and balance things. The stat about where we concede chances could be influenced by a change in Walkers role; earlier in the season I felt as if he was being played as the "covering" fullback, which is something that avb has spoken of in interviews [about his tactical beliefs]. A combination of Dawson and Assou-Ekkotto provide the balance needed to allow Walker to provide width on the right. Dawson can switch the play to that part of the pitch very directly at times, which encourages Walker forward, and he's also the most physical option we have at the moment, without Kaboul. I have faith that Kaboul can return at some stage and play the role properly, as his aggression in pushing up and winning the ball really helped Walker last season, but Dawson is the closest in style that we have to this right now imo

 

[Jordinho]

I thought this, but I saw a stat a couple of days ago that says that the majority of the chances we concede to the opposition are from our left, and it got me thinking.

I think Dawson was brought back into the team to help improve play down our right, and balance things. The stat about where we concede chances could be influenced by a change in Walkers role; earlier in the season I felt as if he was being played as the "covering" fullback, which is something that avb has spoken of in interviews [about his tactical beliefs]. A combination of Dawson and Assou-Ekkotto provide the balance needed to allow Walker to provide width on the right. Dawson can switch the play to that part of the pitch very directly at times, which encourages Walker forward, and he's also the most physical option we have at the moment, without Kaboul. I have faith that Kaboul can return at some stage and play the role properly, as his aggression in pushing up and winning the ball really helped Walker last season, but Dawson is the closest in style that we have to this right now imo

Would that be crosses coming in from the left? I must admit i don't remember every chance we give away, but there has been a few where one or both of Walker and Dawson have failed to mark their man or just any man really.

 

[Golfball]

There was a chance he would excel yes, there was also a chance he would not. Fortunately for him AVB increased the odds in his favour.

The price of a player is irrelevant in discussing whether they will flop or not.

You are not a star player until you start performing, you are claiming he was a star player for us before he had even played a match? What a joke.

What happened happened, and is why we are all sitting here meant to be discussing how our defensive unit looks good on current form.

Communication is much more important for Goalkeepers than for outfield players, but don't let that stop you.

He is one of the most expensive goal keepers in history. Im using it as an indication that we thought he would be very good, of course it doesnt guarantee, but its stupidity to claim a keeper with a great amount of talent is only succeeding because he was on the bench for 3 months. If he was going to flop he would have regardless - he still might for all we know, its early days.

And at the time, the AVB defenders claimed Brad did not deserve to be dropped and that was the reason - nothing to do with settling in. Now you have all seen what a good keeper he is, suddenly it is because AVB benched a 25 year old national keeper. What an insult to the years of hard work he had already put.

The actions of AVB were irrelevant with a keeper like Lloris. Your theory makes perfect sense for a 18 year old unknown talent who we have brought over from south america but unsure if he is the real deal. However we all knew we potentially had a real star on our bench because of what he had done at a high level in the past.

When Chelsea signed Cech, no way Mourinho would have benched him for months and played Cudi. Because they knew who was the number 1, they knew Cech was best, he barely spoke English but its not a major factor (and you know it). There is always a small chance it wont work out, but there is that with every player, you play who you think your best is and thats it. Ferguson didnt do it with 20 year old De Gea, I cant think of any manager ever that has signed a keeper for a huge fee and then benched him for months. Lloris had played over 40 times for France (world cup and euros) and played a lot of CL football, he was highly rated and it was just a strange decision from AVB that he eventually put right. I cant believe that I've even wasted my time replying, you already know your posts are about not letting AVB be criticised rather than having a valid point. Its even more of a joke when you know for a fact that plenty of top keepers have come straight in, havent spoken English but gone straight into the team - with these decisions made by experienced top managers.

 

[thfcsteff]

Come on, I thought this sort of spin was coming to an end. You cant possibly believe that, although what im more interested in as why you feel the need to go to such lengths to spin it.

Quite simply, Lloris is the French national keeper. He's not some kid. He didnt gain anything from sitting on our bench, anything that could have happened by playing him from day 1 could have happened after a few months. The only possibly benefit is that he watched the games from the bench and analysed differences in the way the teams attack - but if that was the intention give him a week with a few dvds. If it was a couple of weeks, your breaking in period theory might be ok but it went on for months. Its not like an outfield player where you can give him 20 minutes in a non risk situation and see how he does. He had played 0 PL games in August, just as he had 0 PL minutes months later - its no different.

On the other hand, leaving him on the bench - it tinkled him off for a start and could have caused a fall out with the boss. It cost us points, we've seen Lloris is a better keeper, our games were tight and he could have been the difference as he has been lately. Yes it was really nice of AVB to give Brad some respect, he did nothing wrong apart from be replaced by a better keeper. However managers get paid to make these decisions and as we know, every point counts. There is no way I could ever imagine a strong manager like Ferguson make that sort of decision, that costs points but leaves a player happier. If anything all it would have done is make Hugo more nervous by delaying and delaying.

It was an a clear AVB mistake if ever I saw one, you bang on about that Harry substitution against Villa but in all honesty you know the probability of making a difference to the game was about 0.1%. Whereas playing Lloris in many games - you have to admit it could have gained us points. If ever there was a chance to put balance in to your AVB opinion and show everyone you arent just going to agree with everything he does, this was it. It doesnt mean you change your overall opinion, it just shows thought has gone into the conclusion, rather than the conclusion formed months ago and the evidence spun to suit it.

And just to add, whereas it was a clear initial mistake, the best managers are the ones that start with an idea and recognise when it is not right and change it. He did. Positive. Thats not the only decision either (Livermore - was in initial plans then changed, Dawson, Hudd - not in plans but has given them both a good deal of minutes). All positive for me.

The funniest bit here, quite apart from the fact you then spend a couple of hundred words explaining the latest thing about football I quite clearly do no understand, is that you (of all people) would've been down Lloris' throat with both boots on had he walked in ahead of Friedel and made a mistake or two early on. Tell me I'm wrong...I know you will anyway.

As for the second bit...stop bringing up Harry wherever you post. Yes. That's a warning. Take it as you wish, but however you decide to, just stop it.

 

[thfcsteff]

](*,) NO. This is ridiculous. Never seen fans go to this sort of length to turn a mistake into a positive.

He was not introduced slowly. He wasnt introduced at all and then was. That sort of introduction could have happened months before. And do you even remember what happened ? He was a bit shaky at the start and Arsenal put 5 past him in his second game. If we had got that out of the way early on, we'd have seen much more of this benefit we now see.

What DID happen was he didnt play in games that he should have, it cost us points. And his agent requesting him to be sold in Jan might have forced AVBs hand as well.

Yes, we remember what happened. And if he'd 'got that out of the way early on' the squad would've disrespected Villas Boas for benching Friedel immediately, those 'mistakes' would've been happening whilst the likes of you were telling everyone what an immense sack of brick we currently were, and you'd further have been banging on about Villas Boas showing he'd 'learnt nothing from his Chelski days'...

 

[thfcsteff]

He is one of the most expensive goal keepers in history. Im using it as an indication that we thought he would be very good, of course it doesnt guarantee, but its stupidity to claim a keeper with a great amount of talent is only succeeding because he was on the bench for 3 months. If he was going to flop he would have regardless - he still might for all we know, its early days.

And at the time, the AVB defenders claimed Brad did not deserve to be dropped and that was the reason - nothing to do with settling in. Now you have all seen what a good keeper he is, suddenly it is because AVB benched a 25 year old national keeper. What an insult to the years of hard work he had already put.

The actions of AVB were irrelevant with a keeper like Lloris. Your theory makes perfect sense for a 18 year old unknown talent who we have brought over from south america but unsure if he is the real deal. However we all knew we potentially had a real star on our bench because of what he had done at a high level in the past.

When Chelsea signed Cech, no way Mourinho would have benched him for months and played Cudi. Because they knew who was the number 1, they knew Cech was best, he barely spoke English but its not a major factor (and you know it). There is always a small chance it wont work out, but there is that with every player, you play who you think your best is and thats it.

I'm sorry, what do YOU know about this?

I'll speak for myself. I felt early doors that Brad, an excellent goalie, had reached an age where he simply could not get down to low shots quickly enough. Further, we surmised that he was not going to fit the high-line AVB was trying to implement. I personally prayed for Lloris, I desperately wanted the signing to go through. And when he first came, whilst I was frustrated he didn't immediately replace Brad, I thought AVB was doing exactly the right thing, acclimatizing him to the club (and pressures thanks to impatient supporters and savage media) instead of blazing in.

If you disagree, fantastic, enjoy. But STOP DENEGRATING THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS!

 

[thfcsteff]

:lol: LLoris is not a kid, he has played more CL games than any of our players and played a world cup... A devastated talent? No, its points we would have won to play CL football. Because top clubs play their top players. And thats how you win football games. Even in the Fa cup.

Fair enough mate, I don't agree but there we go...I think the context of the situation made it a massive risk at that time.

 

[thfcsteff]

Do you genuinely believe that that this was a likely scenario? Not just a little bit hyperbole? I mean...Julio Cesar could be playing so much better now if only QPR had played Rob Green for the first few months and bedded him in slowly. And I know Van Der Sar, Cech, Reina etc would never have managed to have the careers in England that they've had without spending some quality time on the bench, learning about English culture first. Oh wait. This whole idea about letting him bed in slowly in case he made a mistake and had his confidence destroyed by the media is completely contradictory anyway, the fact that he was out of the side, with Deschamps and co all making noises about how badly this was being managed actually attracted EVEN MORE attention to the situation and put even more pressure on him to perform when he did finally get his chance in the side. Thankfully, Lloris is a world class goalkeeper that has played in big Champions League games and has captained his country at a major international tournament and thrives under pressure.

Friedel is an excellent goalkeeper, one of the best I've seen at Tottenham. But Lloris is better in almost every way - better reactions, quicker off his line, better with the ball at his feet, better distribution, and of course, far more suited to the high line system that AVB has implemented here. I don't think AVB was wrong not to bring Lloris in immediately. Friedel had been our best player over the first 3 games and deserved to keep his place in the side. But after Lloris got our first clean sheet of the season in the Villa game, that should have been that. I think Friedel is a big personality in the dressing room though and AVB, with what happened at Chelsea in mind, didn't want to rock the boat. But then after a while Lloris was getting frustrated and might have caused an upset in the dressing room himself. His first game as first choice was the epitome of throwing him in at the deep end, the derby. Not exactly the most logical thing to do.

Whatever the outcome, you would have said AVB had handled this situation masterfully. Lloris plays well - "ya see, it was because AVB let him blend in slowly". Lloris fudges up - "ya see, he's not ready yet, AVB was right to stick with Friedel". If he'd dropped Friedel from the beginning and Lloris had played well - "ya see, top managers make difficult decisions and he's been rewarded here". If he'd dropped Friedel and Lloris was a bit dodgy - "something about context, can't you see what he's trying to do long term etc..."

The stats don't lie - we have conceded 16 goals in 10 games with Friedel and only 13 goals in 15 games with Lloris. If you take out the game at the Emirates it's 8 in 14 with Lloris. That's an enormous difference. Yes, I know there are other factors, which I'll talk about in a moment, but we are now playing our best keeper, the one most suited to our system, and we are seeing the benefits of it.

What irritated me even more earlier in the season though was AVB's persistence with Gallas despite several shocking performances. Gallas is supposed to be the experienced leader, yet he was as guilty as anyone of panicking and hoofing the ball when not under any pressure, such a stark contrast from Ledley. Not only that, he was being asked to play a high line and a high pressing game. 35 year olds are generally not suited to these kind of tactics, and he often could not keep up with things. As Dawson has won his place back in the side, things have improved a lot, because while he's not the fastest defender around, he is more mobile than Gallas and doesn't tire as much towards the end of games after pressing for such a long time.

Something I absolutely cannot stand a manager doing is picking players who clearly aren't suited to the system they want to play - Graham having us hoofing high balls up to the 5ft tall Rebrov, Hoddle playing an open 3-5-2 formation with no pace or defensive midfielder in the side...now that we are actually playing the right personnel in the right formation we are seeing results. AVB is currently in my good books because he is playing the correct players in the correct formation and getting results. But if we miss out on Champions League football by one point like we did last year, I'll have to wonder...what if Lloris had been there with his quicker reactions to Cahill's opening goal in the Chelsea game, or Dzeko's winner at the Etihad? What if Dawson had been there to head away the corner Wigan scored from, or had stayed closer to Mata for Chelsea's equaliser?

Moving on, I am very happy with our defensive options. I haven't been to impressed by Walker or Assou-Ekotto's attacking play recently and I think full-back is the next priority area for us to strengthen after the striker situation, but we generally look quite solid at the moment. I'm struggling to think of another team with better centre-back options than us, especially when the best one of all gets fit soon. Unfortunately we no longer have Sandro to protect the defence, but Parker is a good backup and I am hoping that Holtby's influence will also help us to keep the ball better and take pressure off of our defence.

Here lies the difference in how we are watching what AVB is doing, both with the side and the defence.
I see him as someone who
a) knows much more about our club and the pressures than we do and so
b) is working accordingly over the course of the season to get things right until
c) we are working exactly as he wants us to.

He will make mistakes. He has made mistake. But the sum total of these doesn't get close to the fine, fine work he's done, especially when measured against the pressure.
How he has handled the defence has been excellent. He has identified exactly what's needed right now and is going with it. The experience and leadership of Dawson, resting Caulker...

I admit to being a fan of his. I wanted him here from May 13th onwards. I felt he was the right man. And I absolutely still believe he is, with more conviction than ever.
One or two mistakes along the way will not have me jumping up and down screaming or getting upset.
I will wait until the end of the season before giving him a full evaluation.

 

[Golfball]

The funniest bit here, quite apart from the fact you then spend a couple of hundred words explaining the latest thing about football I quite clearly do no understand, is that you (of all people) would've been down Lloris' throat with both boots on had he walked in ahead of Friedel and made a mistake or two early on. Tell me I'm wrong...I know you will anyway.

As for the second bit...stop bringing up Harry wherever you post. Yes. That's a warning. Take it as you wish, but however you decide to, just stop it.

Find a post from me where I have ever been down a players throat? And If Lloris had come in and been brick, yes I'd have probably thought he was brick - i dont see the benefit in saying what I want to be true when it really isnt. But there would be enough justification for AVB playing him and we thought he would be better.

Sorry, a warning ? Stop taking yourself and your "role" so seriously (and more importantly abusing you power). I'll post what I want. You are riled once again because you know what you are saying cannot ever be true. Im not bringing up Harry, im bringing up YOUR previous points made against Harry. I dont see why I need to explain that you should be able to work it out. To clarify the point (if I must) you have mentioned several times a mistake you thought Harry made, you've mentioned it enough to stick in my mind that you think that, so im using it to say "well if you think that was a mistake, in one game for 8 minutes, how many points do you think 13 games on the bench will have cost us ?" - seriously, calm down and stop justifying AVBs mistake. He's doing ok now, you dont have to be so precious.

And for the record, Harry was at the club for 4 years and did a lot of good. Just because you dont like him, it doesnt mean no one else can speak about him and use his period as an example. It is perfectly relevant, especially in a thread where people are comparing our defense to the "past" of which Harry is the most recent past.

 

[Golfball]

I'm sorry, what do YOU know about this?

I'll speak for myself. I felt early doors that Brad, an excellent goalie, had reached an age where he simply could not get down to low shots quickly enough. Further, we surmised that he was not going to fit the high-line AVB was trying to implement. I personally prayed for Lloris, I desperately wanted the signing to go through. And when he first came, whilst I was frustrated he didn't immediately replace Brad, I thought AVB was doing exactly the right thing, acclimatizing him to the club (and pressures thanks to impatient supporters and savage media) instead of blazing in.

If you disagree, fantastic, enjoy. But STOP DENEGRATING THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS!

Like you do to me those that disagree with you ?

But what a surprise, you thought Lloris should be number 1 but thought AVB was doing the right thing. Seriously, just make sense for once.

 

[thfcsteff]

Find a post from me where I have ever been down a players throat? And If Lloris had come in and been brick, yes I'd have probably through he was brick. But there would be enough justification for AVB playing him and we thought he would be better.

Sorry, a warning ? Stop taking yourself and your "role" so seriously (and more importantly abusing you power). I'll post what I want. You are riled once again because you know what you are saying cannot ever be true. Im not bringing up Harry, im bringing up YOUR previous points made against Harry. I dont see why I need to explain that you should be able to work it out. To clarify the point (if I must) you have mentioned several times a mistake you thought Harry made, you've mentioned it enough to stick in my mind that you think that, so im using it to say "well if you think that was a mistake, in one game for 8 minutes, how many points do you think 13 games on the bench will have cost us ?" - seriously, calm down and stop justifying AVBs mistake. He's doing ok now, you dont have to be so precious.

You are bringing him up.
Without even tenuous relevance to the thread.
Stop bringing up old topics in threads where they have no relevance.
Stop being a troll.
Accept that some people do not agree with you.
And move on.