A Look in the mirror

[Superhudd]

Strange how we've spent a lot of money buying up all the land, pushing through all the necessary permits and building a supermarket if it's just a ploy to keep the fans happy. We've also invested a lot of money in a new training ground.

I prefer proactive to reactive to appease fans. We should be sitting in our nice shinny stadium by now. There is always an excuse why we are not. But no doubt, should the heat begin to lay at his door, out the new plans will come.

 

[Superhudd]

I dont think Levy sacked him for the brand of football or lack of goals. I think Levy saw how tactically inept AVB was on Sunday playing a high line with Dawson and Capoue and failing to change it. Everyone saw it. If he cant get simple tactical things right how is he supposed to build anything.

Also Levy knew if AVB repaired his rep he'd be off to PSG or Real. There was no long term project to be had here.

confused. why isn't high line part of AVBs brand of football

 

[Superhudd]

Two things.

Liverpool had already crashed when Rodgers was brought in. They had gone from a perennial top four club to a club closer to the relegation zone than fourth spot. The fans had already gone through the mill of watching Kenny use all the Torres cash on Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson etc. They knew that to regain their former position something drastic was needed and without a sugar daddy they had to change it all and so they decided to appoint one of the most promising young coaches in the country. Now lets look at us. We are having the crash right now, we are looking at our version of the squandered Torres money, we are now in the position of needing to find a solution. AVBs tenure was meant to bring stability and in the long term progression but instead we have now gone into decline, ultimately the reason for his dismissal.

The next thing is fan mindset. For the majority of my life as a Spurs fan (20 years or so), we have been a poor team. We have taken beatings from Liverpool, UTD, Arsenal, Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine etc and I have had to listen to the constant jeering, watching our best players leave for greener pastures and see another few years of transition under another new coach. In the last 5-6 years as a fan though I have been able to listen to the silence of the other fans when they know they have to play Tottenham. Gone are the days of hearing about three point lane. Gone are the days of mediocrity. We fans have been treated to a glimpse of the promised land and my goodness do we want to stay in it. We want a stable squad with no fear of our best players leaving year on year. We want to be a part of the elite cartel at the top of the league. Are these expectations right? No. Is there some justification there? Yes. The average Spurs fan listens to the media hype and wants to believe it can happen, they don't want to go back to the old days.

The mindset of the common fan is the same at many clubs. We all want success for our clubs but know that at the end of the day that right is reserved for the priveleged few who can afford it. I personally blame the state of the current game for the state of the current fan base. Money and the UCL control the game right now because any footballer who values themselves wants medals and wants to play against the best. The clubs at the top know this and feed off any team that shows themselves close to being a competitior by offering ludicrous wages to that teams best.

As a fan of my club I recognise this as the threat and despite it going against what I believe, I know that without short term goals like the continuation of our most recent feats, our best players will leave and then the slip back downwards will happen very quickly. I dreaded it the moment Chelsea beat Bayern, I never expected Bale to stay for another season but I knew our best would leave because they knew that they were better than Anzhi on a Thursday night. The club needs to set the short term goals high to keep the players happy. If we were to say it's a long term project, please give us your time no one would come, so whilst we still have class in the team we must use it to lure better players. We can either continue like this scrapping away with no real signs of solid progression (AVBs tenure was this despite the 72 points, the football was not an improvement) or hope for one of two things: we stop and start rebuilding using a combination of youth players, cheap experienced pros (like Barry at Everton) and promising youngsters (Eriksen, Lamela) with an eye on the UCL in 3-4 years time, hoping that our young players come good and stay on for that long (unlikely). Or by some miracle we sign a Suarez type player, a genuine world class players who somehow evaded the grasp of the cartel.

The board need to accept that if they really want to push forwards its either back the young coach and give him no targets (like Rodgers who has had time despite not starting well) or find a wealthy billionaire to bank roll an entire team and coach. The fans, well we just need to be realistic, but then wheres the fun in that?

It's the hope that has killed the fans. It has poisoned our minds and made us greedy, but every week we hear from many sources that we are in the fight for the top four and having seen what could be we want to keep fighting for it

I don't think there is a problem with the fans, I think the problem lays entirely with the pressure from the media onto the owners, the owners today do not want it $hitting on there door step, thus meaning its always the manager is removed and the owner is again therefore seen the hero.

How many managers has Levy hired!! IMO Levy is one of the reasons for this perpetual ever turning circle of doom we find ourselves.

 

[Modric THFC]

confused. why isn't high line part of AVBs brand of football

Yes its part of his brand of football but I doubt Levy cares whether AVB plays a high line or not. He's didnt sack AVB because he was opposed to his high line. He sacked him because AVB put his faith in a high line and refused to fix what was going wrong on the pitch on sunday.

 

[Superhudd]

Yes its part of his brand of football but I doubt Levy cares whether AVB plays a high line or not. He's didnt sack AVB because he was opposed to his high line. He sacked him because AVB put his faith in a high line and refused to fix what was going wrong on the pitch on sunday.

On that note Joe Lewis should sack Levy for continuing to not see the error of his ways and continually sacking the managers and not having faith

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I don't think there is a problem with the fans, I think the problem lays entirely with the pressure from the media onto the owners, the owners today do not want it $hitting on there door step, thus meaning its always the manager is removed and the owner is again therefore seen the hero.

How many managers has Levy hired!! IMO Levy is one of the reasons for this perpetual ever turning circle of doom we find ourselves.

I'm sorry but do you go to the games and have a lot of spurs fans as friends? That's it a dig but a genuine question because I have a season ticket and I've also ran a fan club and spurs fan expectations have increased season on season due to the more success and investment we have had. Let's not forget two season ago we had a sniff of the title, and last year we took 4 points off the team that won it comfortably

However the fans expectations are justified to a point but ultimately football is about people, the fans, the players, the management and the media and they all have potential to fail

We as fans have to accept that we create pressure by paying hard earned money and expecting a certain level of performance. That is our right as a paying customer. If I go to Tesco and buy some tesco finest sausages at twice the price.... I expect them to justify the premium. We as fans pay a premium for premier league football at tottenham and rightly expect a certain level of "performance" and that doesn't have to be aesthetics but it does have to be in results ultimately. What doesn't help is having higher expectations that the price you pay (and I know were one of the highest) or if things aren't as anticipated expecting a miracle fix.

On Sunday we started off ok and then they attacked Naughton...he had a mate but it took only 11 minutes in the game for the jeers to start. That's us as fans attacking our own player.... It makes it much easier for the opposition when they know our own fans don't like what their seeing. It also sets a precedent with the booing at half time/full time . We are arguably the worse club I've seen for that

We as fans have to recognise that improvement takes time and try to give the people in charge that time. I have historically thought levy was great. I ding doubt he dos everything with the right interest at heart but he has made mistakes. However us as fans expecting is gang gratification and very quick fixes contributes massively to the pressure and the problem. As I've said we have a right but sometimes we think we have more rights than we do...

 

[Superhudd]

lol 20 year season ticket holder.. but that shouldn't matter. I also do not think that Tottenham fans on the whole over expect for instant success. If you had polled before the season the fans expectations then they would have all said top 6 maybe top 4, you would have got the odd mentalist but, if you had of thought Tottenham fans over expect then that poll would register with the majority expecting the title. I believe the main pressure on the board comes from the media, which incidently was started when Neil Ashton and Martin Samuel from that lovely Mail newspaper took swipes at AVB, which IMO went to board level after the Emirates Marketing Project game. The constant pressure about the amount spent, the tactics from the Chelsea employment, the bombardment has come from the media. You only need see what happens in todays media... someone does a story, before you know it there are 20 similar pieces on newsnow, the over analysing of the situation is immense. Then the fans read it... thus putting them on edge.

The jeers and boos you talk about have come about because that is the pantomime of it all today, its the fans release of tension in todays tension fueled lifes, sense of needing to put a smile on there faces. Its almost like a quick fix to make themselves feel better. That is the modern fan. To point out I do not boo, I am down the stairs looking for the toilet because normally the tension gets me that way.. to go a **** that is. haha.

 

[Raziel]

lol 20 year season ticket holder.. but that shouldn't matter. I also do not think that Tottenham fans on the whole over expect for instant success. If you had polled before the season the fans expectations then they would have all said top 6 maybe top 4, you would have got the odd mentalist but, if you had of thought Tottenham fans over expect then that poll would register with the majority expecting the title. I believe the main pressure on the board comes from the media, which incidently was started when Neil Ashton and Martin Samuel from that lovely Mail newspaper took swipes at AVB, which IMO went to board level after the Emirates Marketing Project game. The constant pressure about the amount spent, the tactics from the Chelsea employment, the bombardment has come from the media. You only need see what happens in todays media... someone does a story, before you know it there are 20 similar pieces on newsnow, the over analysing of the situation is immense. Then the fans read it... thus putting them on edge.

The jeers and boos you talk about have come about because that is the pantomime of it all today, its the fans release of tension in todays tension fueled lifes, sense of needing to put a smile on there faces. Its almost like a quick fix to make themselves feel better. That is the modern fan. To point out I do not boo, I am down the stairs looking for the toilet because normally the tension gets me that way.. to go a **** that is. haha.

I disagree a bit, our fans are *******s with idiot expectations, and that is being polite.

- We went from total **** to 5th with Jol, and immediately Jol wasn't good enough.
- We went from having not played in Europe for 20+ years to the Europa cup is a **** competition and only CL is good enough
- We consistently improve (over last 7 years in general), but Levy/Club/Manager is not good enough, we should be challenging for title
- And don't even go to the constant need for a player spacegoat despite the 3rd team today being better than 1st team 8 years ago.

The PL is a rigged game, between the massive cash advantage Manure, Scum and Pool had from first decade of CL money to build the infrastructure, brands and buy players, along with the money doping from City and Cheat$ki, we are not in the running. 5th/6th is where we have to fight to retain our spot (hold of Barcodes/Everton/etc.) and then hope to be in a position to take advantage of a bad season from one of the bigger clubs.

There are still people here who think we should automatically finish above the Scum without taking into consideration that they have a new stadium, have a wage bill that often is close to 2X ours and can go out and buy a 42M player.

If fans don't think they have contributed to the downfall of Harry and AVB especially, it's all the media/club, look again

 

[parklane1]

Not sure if the mods will let this live as a separate thread, but its not aimed at AVB, next manager, Levy, etc.

I look at the threads and reactions today, relief, disaster, uncertainty, people speaking of merry go rounds, who's fault, should AVB have stayed, should Harry have stayed, should BMJ have stayed, another system comes and goes, who's fault, why is Spurs, why is football like this where Pardew and Rodgers are senior managers in the PL?

My comment is we (include myself), need to take a long hard look in the mirror, chairmen did not go crazy overnight, their customers have, WE are the ones demanding instant success, must have CL, etc, etc. Lots of the posters who now question Levy were the loudest when results didn't go right (win/lose/style of play) under BMJ/Harry/AVB, not to mention those who just admit "I don't like the manager for personal reasons"

I despise Pool, scummy club, scummy fans with a victim mentality, yet the one quality their fans solely seem to have is a willingness to back the manager. I laugh at the suggestions that we missed out on Rodgers, did you recall his season last year? this entire board and most Spurs fans would have been calling for his head.

So in 6 months, when the next guy gets two bad results in a row, or wins 2-0 but without any flair and you jeer, boo, jump on GG and knee jerk, remember you create the world we live in.

=D>=D>

That sir is one of the best posts i have read on here.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

lol 20 year season ticket holder.. but that shouldn't matter. I also do not think that Tottenham fans on the whole over expect for instant success. If you had polled before the season the fans expectations then they would have all said top 6 maybe top 4, you would have got the odd mentalist but, if you had of thought Tottenham fans over expect then that poll would register with the majority expecting the title. I believe the main pressure on the board comes from the media, which incidently was started when Neil Ashton and Martin Samuel from that lovely Mail newspaper took swipes at AVB, which IMO went to board level after the Emirates Marketing Project game. The constant pressure about the amount spent, the tactics from the Chelsea employment, the bombardment has come from the media. You only need see what happens in todays media... someone does a story, before you know it there are 20 similar pieces on newsnow, the over analysing of the situation is immense. Then the fans read it... thus putting them on edge.

The jeers and boos you talk about have come about because that is the pantomime of it all today, its the fans release of tension in todays tension fueled lifes, sense of needing to put a smile on there faces. Its almost like a quick fix to make themselves feel better. That is the modern fan. To point out I do not boo, I am down the stairs looking for the toilet because normally the tension gets me that way.. to go a **** that is. haha.

My mate who I sit with has heart palpations before the game and is a bag of nerves

I'm now of the attitude that **** it, I can't influence it but I'll try by being positive

I wear lucky pants (don't work) and have a lucky badge (worked for some time) but the reality is we as fans can't do bigger all other than support the team or NOT

It's not easy being a spurs fan but i just think we're massively guilty of over expecting

And someone like yourself with a season ticket of 20 plus years has sat through some **** like I have

I'll hold my hands up and say that I thought we had a sniff of the title this season. I still think we have a great chance of top 4 if the new man can get us playing at 80% of our ability

But, it's a big but, I'm generally a positive guy. My mates that go aren't so we conflict ourselves.... But it does create some great conversations

 

[Pirate55]

I don't understand why AVB didn't at some point give an interview to the official site and explain exactly what his philosophy was, how he ultimately wanted us to play, the steps we would have to go through to get us there etc. Would have gotten more people on his side because the idea that they couldn't see what he was trying to achieve is a common one.

And therein lies the problem. He relied on you and others to try and explain his plan. Why didn't he do it himself? That is the bigger question. Either he didn't have a coherent plan or he couldn't ( or for some inexplicable reason didnt want to ) explain it.

Just foolhardy IMO.