Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Depends on the position in the table, sorry to keep repeating myself. If we finish 7th then no I would not consider it a really good thing.
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A Look in the mirror
- Thread starter Raziel
- Start date
Depends on the position in the table, sorry to keep repeating myself. If we finish 7th then no I would not consider it a really good thing.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
I think it's if nothing else a good standard set for new manager to beat.
Something very strange would have to happen for 71+ points only to make us finish 7th! It would almost certainly at the very least put us in the mix for a CL spot.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Strange things happen in football, didn't United win the title with only 79 points a few years ago? They got 89 or 90 the next season and didn't win it.
But I'm sure 72 points would have you within touching distance of 4th at the very least in any season, past, present or future.
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Who knows? 68 points may be good enough this season, I know which I would prefer.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
Where are yous getting 68 and 72 points.
We have 27 points from 16 games. that's 1.69 point per game. That would be 64 points at the end of the season.
We have 27 points from 16 games. that's 1.69 point per game. That would be 64 points at the end of the season.
spursman17
Stephen Kelly
Probably more appropriate to this thread:
Personally I am saddened that AVB has gone.
I find is astonishing that so much success is expected in such a small space of time. We have brought in 7 new players into the first team, all of whom are new to the league and our country/culture.
Success is not going to come instantly and if the base of success is by comparing it to last season then you are the one over expecting especially since we have lost our main scorer and heart of the team (that's without including Modric and Berbatov over the years).
Ferguson had two dreadful seasons before he created the squad he wanted and the success that came as a result. Is AVB to blame? No. He is mealy a lamb lead to the slaughter based on shocking decisions higher above.
No way should a squad change so drastically in a short space of time. No way should we have gone on for so long without focusing more on our goal scoring problems for the past seasons where most goals have come from midfield and our goal difference is way below that of teams in similar positions in the league.
I remember back to when we got into the CL that THAT was the time we should have forked out on our striker issue and by doing so we could have probably made players stay and become a regular contender. Instead we took the CL money and bought midfielders and defenders.
Players in over the years:
10/11
William Gallas, Rafael van der Vaart, Bongani Khumalo, Steven Pienaar
11/12
Brad Friedel, Cristian Ceballos, Souleymane Coulibaly, Scott Parker, Iago Falque, Louis Saha
12/13
Gylfi Sigurdsson, Jan Vertonghen, Grant Hall, Emmanuel Adebayor, Mousa Dembele, Clint Dempsey, Hugo Lloris, Lewis Holtby
What does that show? Mostly players either coming to the end of their career or rejected by other clubs (apart from the odd few). Again no real investment of focus on strikers.
So back to the start of this post. Is AVB to blame? No not in my view. Lack of investment from above over the years that would have introduced newcomers slowly into an existing squad would have been the better approach than simply coming into money from the sale of Bale to spend on 7+ new players to strengthen areas that had been neglected over the years. And to point out. Again. We have only brought in a single striker. That's without forgetting we maintain Adebayor and Defoe on our books whom are rarely seen these days.
AVB to blame? Try Levy.
Personally I am saddened that AVB has gone.
I find is astonishing that so much success is expected in such a small space of time. We have brought in 7 new players into the first team, all of whom are new to the league and our country/culture.
Success is not going to come instantly and if the base of success is by comparing it to last season then you are the one over expecting especially since we have lost our main scorer and heart of the team (that's without including Modric and Berbatov over the years).
Ferguson had two dreadful seasons before he created the squad he wanted and the success that came as a result. Is AVB to blame? No. He is mealy a lamb lead to the slaughter based on shocking decisions higher above.
No way should a squad change so drastically in a short space of time. No way should we have gone on for so long without focusing more on our goal scoring problems for the past seasons where most goals have come from midfield and our goal difference is way below that of teams in similar positions in the league.
I remember back to when we got into the CL that THAT was the time we should have forked out on our striker issue and by doing so we could have probably made players stay and become a regular contender. Instead we took the CL money and bought midfielders and defenders.
Players in over the years:
10/11
William Gallas, Rafael van der Vaart, Bongani Khumalo, Steven Pienaar
11/12
Brad Friedel, Cristian Ceballos, Souleymane Coulibaly, Scott Parker, Iago Falque, Louis Saha
12/13
Gylfi Sigurdsson, Jan Vertonghen, Grant Hall, Emmanuel Adebayor, Mousa Dembele, Clint Dempsey, Hugo Lloris, Lewis Holtby
What does that show? Mostly players either coming to the end of their career or rejected by other clubs (apart from the odd few). Again no real investment of focus on strikers.
So back to the start of this post. Is AVB to blame? No not in my view. Lack of investment from above over the years that would have introduced newcomers slowly into an existing squad would have been the better approach than simply coming into money from the sale of Bale to spend on 7+ new players to strengthen areas that had been neglected over the years. And to point out. Again. We have only brought in a single striker. That's without forgetting we maintain Adebayor and Defoe on our books whom are rarely seen these days.
AVB to blame? Try Levy.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
So we conceded 11 goals in 2 games because we failed to replace Bale? Where we supposed to win 7-6 or something?
AVB wasnt sacked because we arent scoring enough.
So interesting that most people took this thread as a defense of AVB (which it is not)
- It's the fact that a lot of people have jumped in and said why AVB should go (even in this thread), Harry had lots of people who went after him even when we were in CL, Jol had fans that believed he reached his level, couldn't win big games, etc. etc. Fans will always find a reason to justify why the person is not the right man for the job ..
- People can't complain about the merry go around and lack of consistency within the club, when we behave exactly the same way, no fans are willing to wait on success (honestly I feel most fans won't be happy unless we won the PL in February with +200 GD), so how do we expect clubs/chairmen to?
- It's the fact that a lot of people have jumped in and said why AVB should go (even in this thread), Harry had lots of people who went after him even when we were in CL, Jol had fans that believed he reached his level, couldn't win big games, etc. etc. Fans will always find a reason to justify why the person is not the right man for the job ..
- People can't complain about the merry go around and lack of consistency within the club, when we behave exactly the same way, no fans are willing to wait on success (honestly I feel most fans won't be happy unless we won the PL in February with +200 GD), so how do we expect clubs/chairmen to?
spursman17
Stephen Kelly
Did you read my post?
Our goal scoring has been a problem for many seasons, just go look at the table and subtract those from bale.
My point is AVB needs time. Fans were not willing to give him that and neither was levy.
The goals conceded in 2 games means little and is a very short term observation, especially since the Liverpool game we had 2 of our main back four out and Dawson had never been good enough in my opinion.
If it weren't for penalties this season we would be far lower than we are.
We have many new players who are not here to join a team but to be the team. That is one of the problems.
monkeybarry
Jack Jull
I disagree , I think most fans were ready to be patient with the avb project.
Ramos was the plan, but that went tits up
Harry was the stop gap that turned out to be great, but levy wanted to get the 'project' back on track. In hindsight, it was the wrong move.
But avb didn't seem to have a vision this season - it just looked completely abject tactically, I really had no idea where it was going or what the end goal was. And his complete lack of a plan b showed him up to be a stubborn, poor, one season wonder manager.
When the new guy comes in I will back him as long he plays decent (doesn't have to be Barcelona , but at least something that will challenge the opposition and keep me awake) football and has a clear and progressive philosophy.
Even if it doesnt work all the time, as long as there is a plan
Superhudd
Simon Davies
Exactly, it was because of the particular brand of football why we went from Graham to Hoddle and why I put it in that reason to explain this isn't just about two results as the opening poster seems to think. Levy has previous... and why I put the clubs moto up.
when Levy took over he promised on the stadium that something was going to be done. (12 years ago)
When Levy sacked Jol, Levy got a backlash, he brought out stadium plans. Which we are still waiting for. (5 years ago... yes that's 5 years ago)
If it gets nasty, watch him bring out the new plans, updated plans from the Jol sacking. :lol:
Strange how we've spent a lot of money buying up all the land, pushing through all the necessary permits and building a supermarket if it's just a ploy to keep the fans happy. We've also invested a lot of money in a new training ground.
Stenno
Banned
Superhudd
Simon Davies
I have jumped in and given my reasons why I think Levy let him go. Not why I think he should go. For the record, I would have given him upto March and if performances (not results) had not of changed then brought in an interim for the final few games, ready for our new coach in the summer.
Cochise
Steve Carr
Two things.
Liverpool had already crashed when Rodgers was brought in. They had gone from a perennial top four club to a club closer to the relegation zone than fourth spot. The fans had already gone through the mill of watching Kenny use all the Torres cash on Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson etc. They knew that to regain their former position something drastic was needed and without a sugar daddy they had to change it all and so they decided to appoint one of the most promising young coaches in the country. Now lets look at us. We are having the crash right now, we are looking at our version of the squandered Torres money, we are now in the position of needing to find a solution. AVBs tenure was meant to bring stability and in the long term progression but instead we have now gone into decline, ultimately the reason for his dismissal.
The next thing is fan mindset. For the majority of my life as a Spurs fan (20 years or so), we have been a poor team. We have taken beatings from Liverpool, UTD, Arsenal, Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine etc and I have had to listen to the constant jeering, watching our best players leave for greener pastures and see another few years of transition under another new coach. In the last 5-6 years as a fan though I have been able to listen to the silence of the other fans when they know they have to play Tottenham. Gone are the days of hearing about three point lane. Gone are the days of mediocrity. We fans have been treated to a glimpse of the promised land and my goodness do we want to stay in it. We want a stable squad with no fear of our best players leaving year on year. We want to be a part of the elite cartel at the top of the league. Are these expectations right? No. Is there some justification there? Yes. The average Spurs fan listens to the media hype and wants to believe it can happen, they don't want to go back to the old days.
The mindset of the common fan is the same at many clubs. We all want success for our clubs but know that at the end of the day that right is reserved for the priveleged few who can afford it. I personally blame the state of the current game for the state of the current fan base. Money and the UCL control the game right now because any footballer who values themselves wants medals and wants to play against the best. The clubs at the top know this and feed off any team that shows themselves close to being a competitior by offering ludicrous wages to that teams best.
As a fan of my club I recognise this as the threat and despite it going against what I believe, I know that without short term goals like the continuation of our most recent feats, our best players will leave and then the slip back downwards will happen very quickly. I dreaded it the moment Chelsea beat Bayern, I never expected Bale to stay for another season but I knew our best would leave because they knew that they were better than Anzhi on a Thursday night. The club needs to set the short term goals high to keep the players happy. If we were to say it's a long term project, please give us your time no one would come, so whilst we still have class in the team we must use it to lure better players. We can either continue like this scrapping away with no real signs of solid progression (AVBs tenure was this despite the 72 points, the football was not an improvement) or hope for one of two things: we stop and start rebuilding using a combination of youth players, cheap experienced pros (like Barry at Everton) and promising youngsters (Eriksen, Lamela) with an eye on the UCL in 3-4 years time, hoping that our young players come good and stay on for that long (unlikely). Or by some miracle we sign a Suarez type player, a genuine world class players who somehow evaded the grasp of the cartel.
The board need to accept that if they really want to push forwards its either back the young coach and give him no targets (like Rodgers who has had time despite not starting well) or find a wealthy billionaire to bank roll an entire team and coach. The fans, well we just need to be realistic, but then wheres the fun in that?
It's the hope that has killed the fans. It has poisoned our minds and made us greedy, but every week we hear from many sources that we are in the fight for the top four and having seen what could be we want to keep fighting for it
Liverpool had already crashed when Rodgers was brought in. They had gone from a perennial top four club to a club closer to the relegation zone than fourth spot. The fans had already gone through the mill of watching Kenny use all the Torres cash on Adam, Carroll, Downing and Henderson etc. They knew that to regain their former position something drastic was needed and without a sugar daddy they had to change it all and so they decided to appoint one of the most promising young coaches in the country. Now lets look at us. We are having the crash right now, we are looking at our version of the squandered Torres money, we are now in the position of needing to find a solution. AVBs tenure was meant to bring stability and in the long term progression but instead we have now gone into decline, ultimately the reason for his dismissal.
The next thing is fan mindset. For the majority of my life as a Spurs fan (20 years or so), we have been a poor team. We have taken beatings from Liverpool, UTD, Arsenal, Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine etc and I have had to listen to the constant jeering, watching our best players leave for greener pastures and see another few years of transition under another new coach. In the last 5-6 years as a fan though I have been able to listen to the silence of the other fans when they know they have to play Tottenham. Gone are the days of hearing about three point lane. Gone are the days of mediocrity. We fans have been treated to a glimpse of the promised land and my goodness do we want to stay in it. We want a stable squad with no fear of our best players leaving year on year. We want to be a part of the elite cartel at the top of the league. Are these expectations right? No. Is there some justification there? Yes. The average Spurs fan listens to the media hype and wants to believe it can happen, they don't want to go back to the old days.
The mindset of the common fan is the same at many clubs. We all want success for our clubs but know that at the end of the day that right is reserved for the priveleged few who can afford it. I personally blame the state of the current game for the state of the current fan base. Money and the UCL control the game right now because any footballer who values themselves wants medals and wants to play against the best. The clubs at the top know this and feed off any team that shows themselves close to being a competitior by offering ludicrous wages to that teams best.
As a fan of my club I recognise this as the threat and despite it going against what I believe, I know that without short term goals like the continuation of our most recent feats, our best players will leave and then the slip back downwards will happen very quickly. I dreaded it the moment Chelsea beat Bayern, I never expected Bale to stay for another season but I knew our best would leave because they knew that they were better than Anzhi on a Thursday night. The club needs to set the short term goals high to keep the players happy. If we were to say it's a long term project, please give us your time no one would come, so whilst we still have class in the team we must use it to lure better players. We can either continue like this scrapping away with no real signs of solid progression (AVBs tenure was this despite the 72 points, the football was not an improvement) or hope for one of two things: we stop and start rebuilding using a combination of youth players, cheap experienced pros (like Barry at Everton) and promising youngsters (Eriksen, Lamela) with an eye on the UCL in 3-4 years time, hoping that our young players come good and stay on for that long (unlikely). Or by some miracle we sign a Suarez type player, a genuine world class players who somehow evaded the grasp of the cartel.
The board need to accept that if they really want to push forwards its either back the young coach and give him no targets (like Rodgers who has had time despite not starting well) or find a wealthy billionaire to bank roll an entire team and coach. The fans, well we just need to be realistic, but then wheres the fun in that?
It's the hope that has killed the fans. It has poisoned our minds and made us greedy, but every week we hear from many sources that we are in the fight for the top four and having seen what could be we want to keep fighting for it
Nigeyman
Chris Armstrong
brilliant post sir!!!!
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
I dont think Levy sacked him for the brand of football or lack of goals. I think Levy saw how tactically inept AVB was on Sunday playing a high line with Dawson and Capoue and failing to change it. Everyone saw it. If he cant get simple tactical things right how is he supposed to build anything.
Also Levy knew if AVB repaired his rep he'd be off to PSG or Real. There was no long term project to be had here.
What you on about? Levy gave PSG permission to talk to AVB in the summer, AVB stayed and hoped to build something here. His loyalty wasn't really rewarded when Levy didn't offer a new contract according to a report.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
Fixed. :-"