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85 minute matches - and we are second!

Seedy Ron said:
Even when we won the double? Should've been a treble?
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We had a side capable of that feat, then we added the best goal scorer in the game, it should have been a platform to build from, followed by many more league titles and multiple continental trophies.
 
billyiddo said:
That's all well and good mate but you said bottling initially which is what i took exception to and none of that constitutes bottling, it's just not being good enough. People want something to pin it all on, an excuse - i get that, it's the manager or it's the chairman or in this case some kind of ingrained curse running through the club that has meant we have not won anything regularly like all those bigger and richer clubs - definitely not the fact we just haven't been operating at the same level as the leagues richest clubs and that's the real difference between those that regularly win and those that do not.
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It's not one thing, if it was we could over come it by being better in other areas.
It's a combination, the club/chairman, manager/coach and players all need to be at a level and be contributing, pulling together.
We've not had that combination at one time for longer than I care to remember.
 
billyiddo said:
That's all well and good mate but you said bottling initially which is what i took exception to and none of that constitutes bottling, it's just not being good enough. People want something to pin it all on, an excuse - i get that, it's the manager or it's the chairman or in this case some kind of ingrained curse running through the club that has meant we have not won anything regularly like all those bigger and richer clubs - definitely not the fact we just haven't been operating at the same level as the leagues richest clubs and that's the real difference between those that regularly win and those that do not.
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There is definitely an element of being hamstrung by competing against teams with bigger budgets. But it doesn’t have to be an either or, i.e. do we lose because we’re bottlers or because we don’t have the same resources as the big 6? I think it’s a bit of a both. We have lost our last 3 finals against United, Chelsea and Liverpool. No shame in that on the face of it, but sooner or later you’ll come up against one of the big teams, you have to go through at least one of them in order to win things. But we do also have a habit of shooting ourselves in the foot. For decades we have done this. We’ve lost 8 FA cup semis in a row. Some different teams in different eras of course but to me that smacks of something slightly more troubling. We always seem to lose in the same round of the Europa, last 16. Often against teams with smaller budgets who play in inferior leagues; Basel, Gent, Zagreb.
 
Pirate55 said:
According to the BBC, we have thrown away 11 points this season from goals conceded after the 85th minute. By my calculation, this would take us level on points with Man U but ignoring those late goals conceded would give us a considerable GD advantage to take us to second place.

The question is - why does this keep happening? Is it the players meteorology? Is it poor tactics? Is it bad substitutions? Is is a matter of fitness? Is it a lack of concentration? Whatever it is, it needs to be fixed if we are to make any progress.

It seems to me the exact opposite of what happened under Prime Poch. I recall many games where we came on strong late in games ( Swansea and, memorably, Ajax are just two examples where we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat). I can't immediately think of many games in the last two years where we snatched victory from defeat in the last five minutes of matches.

Why are we such wimpy withering wallys?

Edit I have just seen @Robbo post in the stat thread that in the last ten minutes of games ( plus extra time) we have scored two and conceded 9 goals. This gives a negative goal difference for this period of minus 7. Wow. Just wow!
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Yeah @Robspur12 's link shows we have a goal diference of plus 24 for the first 80 mins and minus 7 for the last ten. In that Amazon video Mourinho banged on about the importance of becoming clams, but also concentrating for the full 90 minutes.

I think our real problem is too many error prone defenders. Not sure Jose can do too much about that, aside from bringing in upgrades in the summer.
 
All of this has happened before and will happen again...

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-solve-tottenham-hotspurs-late-late-problems

An interesting statistic emerged after Tottenham Hotspur blew a lead and conceded two late goals at Everton last weekend: Had all their games this season ended after 80 minutes, Spurs would be sitting second in the table.

Spurs, meanwhile, have conceded 10 goals in the last 10 minutes of nine league games. Six of them have been game-changers, costing them a total of nine points.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/news/pochettino-calls-improved-mentality

Mauricio Pochettino urged his Tottenham side to improve their mentality after they lost from a winning position against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

...the Argentinian was left frustrated by his team's lack of concentration. "After half-time, within five seconds we concede - it's true, a stupid goal," Pochettino explained.

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...ter-fortuitous-europa-league-win-9845218.html

“We need to realise we have to improve in different aspects of the game,” said Pochettino. “We need to focus on the game for 96, 97 minutes, but it is one aspect and it is not easy to improve.

Spurs had been guilty of similarly sleepy football against Saudi Sportswashing Machine last month, when Alan Pardew’s team equalised seven seconds after half-time and won the game.
 
I think AVB did fix it that season, after the Everton debacle I don't think we did anything Sp ur sy until the next campaign.
 
Baleforce said:
I think AVB did fix it that season, after the Everton debacle I don't think we did anything Sp ur sy until the next campaign.
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Other than blowing a 7 point lead over Arsenal and finishing outside the top 4. Nothing against AVB as he did reasonable job in his first season but I’m baffled as to why you and so many others rate him so highly on the back of finishing 5th which is around par for where we had finished in the previous 7 or 8 campaigns. It’s not like he won the league or got us to any cup finals. We finished pretty much where most of us expected to finish in the league but relied heavily on one player to the point where we crashed back to earth when that player was sold. I feel like Poch was the only manager we ever had to instil a system that didn’t rely too much on star players. We lost Kane numerous times to injury and coped very well without him.
 
billyiddo said:
That's all well and good mate but you said bottling initially which is what i took exception to and none of that constitutes bottling, it's just not being good enough. People want something to pin it all on, an excuse - i get that, it's the manager or it's the chairman or in this case some kind of ingrained curse running through the club that has meant we have not won anything regularly like all those bigger and richer clubs - definitely not the fact we just haven't been operating at the same level as the leagues richest clubs and that's the real difference between those that regularly win and those that do not.
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Yeah, somehow when Tottenham finish runners-up, they are bottlers. But only one team can win the competition, so by definition all other teams that entered but didn't achieve runners-up have to be worse.

Convenient how that logic always gets overlooked. :confused:
 
A fear of receiving public criticism could be a contributing factor to Tottenham’s alarming trend of conceding late goals, according to a leading sports performance coach.

Spurs have let 11 points slip this season by letting in goals in the last 10 minutes of Premier League matches, turning a possible title challenge into a fight for the top four.

Boss Jose Mourinho has not been afraid to criticise his players, either individually or collectively this season, and after the latest blip against Saudi Sportswashing Machine on Sunday he said “same coach, different players” when asked why his current side were not showing the resilient traits associated with his former teams.

Sports performance coach Jeremy Lazarus, who has Premier League players, managers and top level performers in other sports among his client list, insists he does not know the ins and outs of what is happening at Spurs, but says generally the fear of producing a mistake tends to make one more likely to happen.

“There is almost certainly a mental issue, whether that comes from lack of motivation, lack of confidence or other factors. I am not doubting their motivation, I am just asking the question,” he told the PA news agency.

“How much do the players absolutely want to do those hard yards? I can’t say, only people inside the club can absolutely say that.

“Could there be an element of panic or fear in the last 10 minutes? If it has happened five or six times before do the doubts start creeping into people’s mind? That is completely possible. These are questions that need to be asked.

“I don’t know Jose Mourinho, he is a very successful manager so I am not going to criticise him in any way.

“It is completely feasible that if you go into a match thinking you might get hung out to dry or might be criticised in some way, either individually or collectively, that could affect the way you perform.

“There is much evidence about the impact on performance of ‘psychological safety’, the idea that to you need to feel ‘safe’ enough to perform at your best.

“It is a paradox, if you know that if you go out and make a mistake you are going to be OK, then you are less likely to make a mistake.

“If you are on edge and thinking, ‘If I make a mistake, not only am I letting the team down but I am going to get criticised publicly’, then it’s more likely that you are going to be a bit scared and make bad decisions.

“Managers have to be tough sometimes but when the players know he is being straight with them and totally supportive they are more willing to accept fair criticism.”

Spurs captain Hugo Lloris gave a damning assessment of the state of the dressing room in the wake of their embarrassing Europa League exit to Dinamo Zagreb, suggesting out-of-favour players were causing a “big problem” and that there was a lack of the togetherness that was prevalent during Mauricio Pochettino’s spell.

Lazarus says it is impossible for there not to be an impact on the pitch if there is a lack of harmony in the dressing room.

“If you have got divisions, and it seems from what we are reading there are, if there are divisions in the club that is going to affect their mentality which could subconsciously affect their desire to really give that extra little bit for a team-mate,” he said
 
markysimmo said:
A fear of receiving public criticism could be a contributing factor to Tottenham’s alarming trend of conceding late goals, according to a leading sports performance coach.

Spurs have let 11 points slip this season by letting in goals in the last 10 minutes of Premier League matches, turning a possible title challenge into a fight for the top four.

Boss Jose Mourinho has not been afraid to criticise his players, either individually or collectively this season, and after the latest blip against Saudi Sportswashing Machine on Sunday he said “same coach, different players” when asked why his current side were not showing the resilient traits associated with his former teams.

Sports performance coach Jeremy Lazarus, who has Premier League players, managers and top level performers in other sports among his client list, insists he does not know the ins and outs of what is happening at Spurs, but says generally the fear of producing a mistake tends to make one more likely to happen.

“There is almost certainly a mental issue, whether that comes from lack of motivation, lack of confidence or other factors. I am not doubting their motivation, I am just asking the question,” he told the PA news agency.

“How much do the players absolutely want to do those hard yards? I can’t say, only people inside the club can absolutely say that.

“Could there be an element of panic or fear in the last 10 minutes? If it has happened five or six times before do the doubts start creeping into people’s mind? That is completely possible. These are questions that need to be asked.

“I don’t know Jose Mourinho, he is a very successful manager so I am not going to criticise him in any way.

“It is completely feasible that if you go into a match thinking you might get hung out to dry or might be criticised in some way, either individually or collectively, that could affect the way you perform.

“There is much evidence about the impact on performance of ‘psychological safety’, the idea that to you need to feel ‘safe’ enough to perform at your best.

“It is a paradox, if you know that if you go out and make a mistake you are going to be OK, then you are less likely to make a mistake.

“If you are on edge and thinking, ‘If I make a mistake, not only am I letting the team down but I am going to get criticised publicly’, then it’s more likely that you are going to be a bit scared and make bad decisions.

“Managers have to be tough sometimes but when the players know he is being straight with them and totally supportive they are more willing to accept fair criticism.”

Spurs captain Hugo Lloris gave a damning assessment of the state of the dressing room in the wake of their embarrassing Europa League exit to Dinamo Zagreb, suggesting out-of-favour players were causing a “big problem” and that there was a lack of the togetherness that was prevalent during Mauricio Pochettino’s spell.

Lazarus says it is impossible for there not to be an impact on the pitch if there is a lack of harmony in the dressing room.

“If you have got divisions, and it seems from what we are reading there are, if there are divisions in the club that is going to affect their meteorology which could subconsciously affect their desire to really give that extra little bit for a team-mate,” he said
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TBH a footballer having fear of public criticism shouldn’t ever play in a stadium
 
Spur of the moment said:
Yeah, somehow when Tottenham finish runners-up, they are bottlers. But only one team can win the competition, so by definition all other teams that entered but didn't achieve runners-up have to be worse.

Convenient how that logic always gets overlooked. :confused:
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And we were never top
So surely a team that was top bottled it
I mean you can’t bottle something you never had can you
 
Spur of the moment said:
Yeah, somehow when Tottenham finish runners-up, they are bottlers. But only one team can win the competition, so by definition all other teams that entered but didn't achieve runners-up have to be worse.

Convenient how that logic always gets overlooked. :confused:
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The other comparable teams deal with pressure situations in a way that we don’t; they even win things from time to time, even if they fail to win occasional big games.

It doesn’t even have to be a particularly big game for us to fold. A reasonably important moment (and that can may just be the chance to keep pressure on an opponent, or the opportunity to go fourth) is usually enough to ensure we don’t turn up, or find some other way to fudge up.

There are tens of examples in the last decade alone - and it’s been done under a variety of managers.
 
Mikey10 said:
The other comparable teams deal with pressure situations in a way that we don’t; they even win things from time to time, even if they fail to win occasional big games.

It doesn’t even have to be a particularly big game for us to fold. A reasonably important moment (and that can may just be the chance to keep pressure on an opponent, or the opportunity to go fourth) is usually enough to ensure we don’t turn up, or find some other way to fudge up.

There are tens of examples in the last decade alone - and it’s been done under a variety of managers.
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Absolutely spot on. For two seasons we were pretty universally regarded as having the best team in the PL. indeed, Inseem to remember that if the PL had been played over a calendar season spanning those two years , we would have won it.

We are serial bottlers. That unfortunately is the fact of the matter. In the Leicester season, we had the far better team. Our results against them ( drawing away and losing at home) just demonstrate that as soon as something meaningful is on a game, we contrive to mess it up.
 
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