85 minute matches - and we are second!

[Pirate55]

According to the BBC, we have thrown away 11 points this season from goals conceded after the 85th minute. By my calculation, this would take us level on points with Man U but ignoring those late goals conceded would give us a considerable GD advantage to take us to second place.

The question is - why does this keep happening? Is it the players mentality? Is it poor tactics? Is it bad substitutions? Is is a matter of fitness? Is it a lack of concentration? Whatever it is, it needs to be fixed if we are to make any progress.

It seems to me the exact opposite of what happened under Prime Poch. I recall many games where we came on strong late in games ( Swansea and, memorably, Ajax are just two examples where we snatched victory from the jaws of defeat). I can't immediately think of many games in the last two years where we snatched victory from defeat in the last five minutes of matches.

Why are we such wimpy withering wallys?

Edit I have just seen @Robbo post in the stat thread that in the last ten minutes of games ( plus extra time) we have scored two and conceded 9 goals. This gives a negative goal difference for this period of minus 7. Wow. Just wow!

 

[Baleforce]

It’s two things, mental resilience and fitness.

The latter is easily fixed.

The former is something the club has suffered from for its entire existence.

 

[Lemonade Money]

It’s two things, mental resilience and fitness.

The latter is easily fixed.

The former is something the club has suffered from for its entire existence.

Think it's snowballed, as soon as the defence started making mistakes, there's a lack of trust, and the thought of here we go again. Plus, our opponents team talk is now, it doesn't matter what the score is after 80 minutes, keep going because they crumble at the end.

 

[StephenH]

It’s two things, mental resilience and fitness.

The latter is easily fixed.

The former is something the club has suffered from for its entire existence.

Spurs lacking "mental resilience" Is the stuff of folk law and fairy tale. Mental resilience is something that comes from the coaching team/unit and its ability to give the group it's in charge of confidence, Pochettino got very close to achieving this IMHO.
Sadly though there is the time factor at play here as squads become easily comfortable and soft thus need constant refreshing. The elephant enters the room and sits in the corner and finance is its name.
IMHO Levy is just treading water and will do little until covid disappears over the horizon.
I want Mourinho gone and would like and up and coming fresh face, so IF we do pull the trigger this season, like a Graham Potter.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Spurs lacking "mental resilience" Is the stuff of folk law and fairy tale. Mental resilience is something that comes from the coaching team/unit and its ability to give the group it's in charge of confidence, Pochettino got very close to achieving this IMHO.
Sadly though there is the time factor at play here as squads become easily comfortable and soft thus need constant refreshing. The elephant enters the room and sits in the corner and finance is its name.
IMHO Levy is just treading water and will do little until covid disappears over the horizon.
I want Mourinho gone and would like and up and coming fresh face, so IF we do pull the trigger this season, like a Graham Potter.

Yet strangely there are plenty of players who have played against us who have commented on our weak mentality

 

[Baleforce]

Yet strangely there are plenty of players who have played against us who have commented on our weak meteorology

and opposing managers who have used it as a one liner team talk

 

[Finney Is Back]

and opposing managers who have used it as a one liner team talk

That was a long while ago.... First Redknapp and then Pochettino had turned a lot of that around. The current incumbent is taking us backwards just as the bloke that immediately followed Redknapp did....

 

[StephenH]

Yet strangely there are plenty of players who have played against us who have commented on our weak meteorology

It’s rubbish, it’s just fans whinging after an important defeat here there and then feeling sorry for themselves. We alway attempt do it on the cheap and that will never work!
We need to spend and sadly we can’t, as simple as

 

[Robbo]

Think it's snowballed, as soon as the defence started making mistakes, there's a lack of trust, and the thought of here we go again. Plus, our opponents team talk is now, it doesn't matter what the score is after 80 minutes, keep going because they crumble at the end.

Indeed. It's a boost for opponents, they know that a game is never lost against Spurs - you just need to apply a bit of pressure, and chances are good we'll crumble.

The problem is that this will take years of work to turn around. It's an image thing; we will need to prove over time that we aren't pushovers. Like @StephenH says, under Poch we started to look like we could turn that corner, but now we're back in the brick and just proving that we are the Spurs of old after all.

It's a circle that's hard to break, and which we won't break under Mourinho despite his reputation for innstilling mental toughness and recilience in his players. He failed at that.

 

[StephenH]

Indeed. It's a boost for opponents, they know that a game is never lost against Spurs - you just need to apply a bit of pressure, and chances are good we'll crumble.

The problem is that this will take years of work to turn around. It's an image thing; we will need to prove over time that we aren't pushovers. Like @StephenH says, under Poch we started to look like we could turn that corner, but now we're back in the brick and just proving that we are the Spurs of old after all.

It's a circle that's hard to break, and which we won't break under Mourinho despite his reputation for innstilling mental toughness and recilience in his players. He failed at that.

We need to buy quality and we can’t judging by Levy’s resent track record.
We need to replace Toby and a quality partner. We must move on some of our substandard midfielders also.
We trying to make a silk purse etc, that as we have seen don’t work!
But we are not alone. COYS

 

[Mikey10]

That was a long while ago.... First Redknapp and then Pochettino had turned a lot of that around. The current incumbent is taking us backwards just as the bloke that immediately followed Redknapp did....

We won nothing under Redknapp. We won nothing under AVB. We won nothing under Sherwood. We won nothing under Poch.

We bottle it every time it really means something.

 

[billyiddo]

Were we ever favourites to win something during that period? Portsmouth semi under Redknapp would be my guess of one of the only times that we were

 

[Mikey10]

Were we ever favourites to win something during that period? Portsmouth semi under Redknapp would be my guess of one of the only times that we were

Were Leicester favourites to win the PL during that period? Or Wigan the FA Cup? Or Birmingham the League Cup?

 

[billyiddo]

Were Leicester favourites to win the PL during that period? Or Wigan the FA Cup? Or Birmingham the League Cup?

Leicester were favourites in the second half of the season, certainly more so than we ever were.

You miss the point though, any of those clubs missing out on the trophy they won would not be called bottlers - tell me, how do you bottle something you're never the favourite to win?

Utter nonsense

 

[StephenH]

We won nothing under Redknapp. We won nothing under AVB. We won nothing under Sherwood. We won nothing under Poch.

We bottle it every time it really means something.

Sorry I don’t buy any of this ‘it only Tottenham boys’ crap but do we use it like crutch to lean on. We do like to dress up losing a game into something far more deep and meaningful, it’s not.
Currently our defence is bottom half and Harry is keeping our collective heads above water!
Mourinho is like a wet blanket and we need to get rid of quite a few once he’s gone!

 

[Mikey10]

Leicester were favourites in the second half of the season, certainly more so than we ever were.

You miss the point though, any of those clubs missing out on the trophy they won would not be called bottlers - tell me, how do you bottle something you're never the favourite to win?

Utter nonsense

And my point is other teams find ways to overcome that thinking.

We don’t. We fold.

0-2 up away at Chelsea, chasing the title and dominating the game. We implode.

FA Cup semi final after FA Cup semi final we contrive to lose.

Big league game after big league game we don’t turn up.

We would be 15 points better off this season alone if we could have seen out the last 5 minutes of games against (supposedly) much weaker opposition. But we couldn’t.

It’s deeply ingrained, and it goes much deeper than this manager.

 

[Seedy Ron]

It’s deeply ingrained, and it goes much deeper than this manager.

Given the turnover of players, managers, owners etc over the years, unless it comes up out the floor of Spurs Lodge like radon it doesn't really make sense.

The only constant is us lot, which in fairness would provide a permanent, unwavering source of negative spirals.

 

[Baleforce]

Given the turnover of players, managers, owners etc over the years, unless it comes up out the floor of Spurs Lodge like radon it doesn't really make sense.

The only constant is us lot, which in fairness would provide a permanent, unwavering source of negative spirals.

It doesn't make any sense, but it's true, since the club turned professional we've done nothing but underachieve.

 

[Seedy Ron]

Even when we won the double? Should've been a treble?

 

[billyiddo]

And my point is other teams find ways to overcome that thinking.

We don’t. We fold.

0-2 up away at Chelsea, chasing the title and dominating the game. We implode.

FA Cup semi final after FA Cup semi final we contrive to lose.

Big league game after big league game we don’t turn up.

We would be 15 points better off this season alone if we could have seen out the last 5 minutes of games against (supposedly) much weaker opposition. But we couldn’t.

It’s deeply ingrained, and it goes much deeper than this manager.

That's all well and good mate but you said bottling initially which is what i took exception to and none of that constitutes bottling, it's just not being good enough. People want something to pin it all on, an excuse - i get that, it's the manager or it's the chairman or in this case some kind of ingrained curse running through the club that has meant we have not won anything regularly like all those bigger and richer clubs - definitely not the fact we just haven't been operating at the same level as the leagues richest clubs and that's the real difference between those that regularly win and those that do not.