20 years....it's just unacceptable

[wiziwig]

I thought I was the last remaining Spurs fan to think Sugar made a mistake by sacking Ossie. Good to know I'm not entirely alone! Personally I can't stand Sugar, but he almost certainly saved the club from a fate worse than Leeds... and I'll always take my hat off to the guy for that. But I think he made a lot of bad decisions while he was at Spurs, and firing Ardiles was one of them.

I'm also the last remaining Spurs fan to think Levy made a mistake in getting rid of Hoddle at the time.

So maybe my views are more because of nostalgia for the Spurs side of the late 70s and early 80s than anything remotely sensible.

Along with our relegation , the sacking of Ardiles and Perryman, were one of my saddest times being a Spurs fan.

Hoddle's sacking was a sad moment too. It did appear that Hoddle had lost the dressing room with that appalling start to the 2003–04 season. 4 points from the first 18 and ironically the final nail in the coffin was the 3-1 home reverse to his former club Southampton .

Also, his treatment of the club's most expensive player Rebrov, at times seemed punitive, which resulted in the Ukranian's value slipping from the club's record £11m outlay to zero £'s. Levy wasn't happy and he pulled the trigger on our legend whilst on his honeymoon!

Oh and K.D.D.D.D.Soc ...the demise of the mesopotamian culture and see who I can blame for it.

I think it were the women's libbers that did it for that particular empire ..



only kidding ladies

 

[Andyandy]

Not many people have pointed out that Arsenal are overachieving consistently. This is the result of running the playing side very very well for their budget. This is based on consistency and player confidence in their coach. It's extremely unusual - who else has qualified for the CL like that? Not even Utd, Barcelona have matched that!

Lots of self blame on here but the day we stop with short term fixes of sacking everybody and resigning a first team every two years then we might have a chance. That or Wenger gets sacked by their spoilt fans!

 

[parklane1]

Not many people have pointed out that Arsenal are overachieving consistently. This is the result of running the playing side very very well for their budget. This is based on consistency and player confidence in their coach. It's extremely unusual - who else has qualified for the CL like that? Not even Utd, Barcelona have matched that!

Lots of self blame on here but the day we stop with short term fixes of sacking everybody and resigning a first team every two years then we might have a chance. That or Wenger gets sacked by their spoilt fans!

Very true, but so many like riding the roundabout.

 

[glasgowspur]

not sure about the over achieving bit, have they really been trying to win the league with the squads they've had? Get third has been their target I reckon.

 

[Hully]

Their target has been to consolidate while paying off the stadium, but that's done now. We've missed the opportunity it presented. Major signings and no big players leaving has lifted them, back to back FA cups the result. The way Wenger adds a player or two each year without changing too much, they are progressing, I fear a league title is getting close.
The gap is widening.
We can only hope we can compete once the new WHL is up and running.

 

[braineclipse]

Not many people have pointed out that Arsenal are overachieving consistently. This is the result of running the playing side very very well for their budget. This is based on consistency and player confidence in their coach. It's extremely unusual - who else has qualified for the CL like that? Not even Utd, Barcelona have matched that!

Lots of self blame on here but the day we stop with short term fixes of sacking everybody and resigning a first team every two years then we might have a chance. That or Wenger gets sacked by their spoilt fans!

Based on what standard have they overachieved for the last 10 years?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Their target has been to consolidate while paying off the stadium, but that's done now. We've missed the opportunity it presented. Major signings and no big players leaving has lifted them, back to back FA cups the result. The way Wenger adds a player or two each year without changing too much, they are progressing, I fear a league title is getting close.
The gap is widening.
We can only hope we can compete once the new WHL is up and running.

The only thing stopping them is the inability to defend and Wenger's tactical naivety. If they fix those two things I do fear they could win a title. They always muller the sides below the top 8. Wenger did actually start to adapt their game in the tighter games, not quite as gung ho, they basically defended for 90 minutes against us and Emirates Marketing Project for example.

 

[Roy1983]

Their target has been to consolidate while paying off the stadium, but that's done now. We've missed the opportunity it presented. Major signings and no big players leaving has lifted them, back to back FA cups the result. The way Wenger adds a player or two each year without changing too much, they are progressing, I fear a league title is getting close.
The gap is widening.
We can only hope we can compete once the new WHL is up and running.

No big players leaving? There's been scores..Henry, Fabregas, RVP, Nasri etc...

The reason they've finished above us is due to having a better mentality and a manager there for nigh on 20 years.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Hoddle's sacking was a sad moment too. It did appear that Hoddle had lost the dressing room with that appalling start to the 2003–04 season. 4 points from the first 18 and ironically the final nail in the coffin was the 3-1 home reverse to his former club Southampton .

King wrote in his autobiography that it was the old guard English players - Sherwood, Ferdinand, Sheringham and Anderton - who undermined Hoddle.

He said all the young players and all the foreign players (he names Poyet and Tarrico) were all really on board with his progressive approaches.

 

[Hully]

No big players leaving? There's been scores..Henry, Fabregas, RVP, Nasri etc...

The reason they've finished above us is due to having a better mentality and a manager there for nigh on 20 years.

I mean in the last couple of years, since the stadium was paid off. Plenty before that agreed. A couple more big signings one at the back one at the front and they'll be competing for the title.

 

[wiziwig]

King wrote in his autobiography that it was the old guard English players - Sherwood, Ferdinand, Sheringham and Anderton - who undermined Hoddle.

He said all the young players and all the foreign players (he names Poyet and Tarrico) were all really on board with his progressive approaches.

Yes, I'd read that too . I were disappointed in Teddy and Anderton for that .

Teddy loved playing for Venables and Ardiles .

http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015...rdiles-was-great-but-everyone-loved-venables/

 

[We are Tottenham]

Bloody Hoddle recommended wenger to arse.

Clive Allen comes on talk brick today.. to say in two sentences how there is interest in Lloris from other clubs!

What is it with some of our x players ... How can they be true Spurs fans?

At least Ginola allways backed us.
Anyway...rant over.............................................................................

 

[Andyandy]

Based on what standard have they overachieved for the last 10 years?

They have made top 4 every season, nobody else has done that. Not Utd, not Chelsea, not city, not Liverpool, not even most of the big clubs in Italy or Spain.

Arsenal are not good enough to win CL nor the league but they are consistently good enough to dine at the table. Every great club has a poor season every now and then, they don't.

 

[glorygloryeze]

They have made top 4 every season, nobody else has done that. Not Utd, not Chelsea, not city, not Liverpool, not even most of the big clubs in Italy or Spain.

Arsenal are not good enough to win CL nor the league but they are consistently good enough to dine at the table. Every great club has a poor season every now and then, they don't.

What you described sounds like consistency but NOT "overachieving"..

 

[braineclipse]

What you described sounds like consistency but NOT "overachieving"..

Definitely much better described as stability or consistency than overachieving. They've also not finished in the top two in the last decade or so (iirc, can't quite be bothered looking it up right now).

 

[Andyandy]

Definitely much better described as stability or consistency than overachieving. They've also not finished in the top two in the last decade or so (iirc, can't quite be bothered looking it up right now).

Consistently overachieving for me. When I say that, I mean the squads they have are not as good as their league position. For me, when Wenger leaves they will fall like Utd.

Where do you think is their level?

 

[braineclipse]

Consistently overachieving for me. When I say that, I mean the squads they have are not as good as their league position. For me, when Wenger leaves they will fall like Utd.

Where do you think is their level?

They've been performing pretty much spot on to their financial level for over a decade now iirc.

Most of the time I think they've had the 3rd-4th best squad in the league too.

How good do you think their squad was this season? Worse than ours? Worse than Liverpool's?

 

[Andyandy]

They've been performing pretty much spot on to their financial level for over a decade now iirc.

Most of the time I think they've had the 3rd-4th best squad in the league too.

How good do you think their squad was this season? Worse than ours? Worse than Liverpool's?

Chelsea & City aside, over 20 years I don't accept that a teams financial level and the performance of the team in terms of league position are as simple as money = success. It's much more of a feedback system money=success=more money=more success etc. You have a greater income if you win! Fans back winning teams, it might take a generation but fan bases change in size.

Arsenal and Spurs are a great example of this- we really weren't that different when Wenger took over. There is no reason why we could not have followed their path and vice versa. They have run their club financially and on the football side better than anybody.

Over 20 years, Wenger has typically had the 3/4th best squad but not always and he has never had the disruption of 1 or 2 seasons outside the CL. Everybody else has.

 

[billyiddo]

Chelsea & City aside, over 20 years I don't accept that a teams financial level and the performance of the team in terms of league position are as simple as money = success. It's much more of a feedback system money=success=more money=more success etc. You have a greater income if you win! Fans back winning teams, it might take a generation but fan bases change in size.

Arsenal and Spurs are a great example of this- we really weren't that different when Wenger took over. There is no reason why we could not have followed their path and vice versa. They have run their club financially and on the football side better than anybody.

Over 20 years, Wenger has typically had the 3/4th best squad but not always and he has never had the disruption of 1 or 2 seasons outside the CL. Everybody else has.

it comes back to consistency - the years United and Chelsea have fallen away are the years they have changed managers - Arsenal have stuck with Wenger so haven't had that disruption, hence why they have never fallen out of the CL.

Arsenals wage bill over the last 10 years is nearly double that of ours, and we have been their closest competitor over that time - in fact now there is a much bigger financial gap between us and Arsenal as there is between Arsenal and Chelsea/City/United - im not sure how you can try and dispute that that is the cheif reason that they finish where they do. take away that financial advantage and then see if they finish in the top 4 every year - at least then there would be something to back up the idea they have over achieved.

 

[braineclipse]

Chelsea & City aside, over 20 years I don't accept that a teams financial level and the performance of the team in terms of league position are as simple as money = success. It's much more of a feedback system money=success=more money=more success etc. You have a greater income if you win! Fans back winning teams, it might take a generation but fan bases change in size.

Arsenal and Spurs are a great example of this- we really weren't that different when Wenger took over. There is no reason why we could not have followed their path and vice versa. They have run their club financially and on the football side better than anybody.

Over 20 years, Wenger has typically had the 3/4th best squad but not always and he has never had the disruption of 1 or 2 seasons outside the CL. Everybody else has.

No doubt the first 10 years or so for Wenger were extremely successful. Not quite what I was talking about though. And this was also hugely influenced by some fortunate timing with the CL. Would have been much harder for Wenger had he taken over at a different time, or a a different club.

Money doesn't equal success. But there's a clear correlation between money and success.