Thomas Frank - Head Coach

[SpurMeUp]

I don't know about that. I don't really see anyone championing Frank other than Spurmeup and he championed Ange too iirc (hes someone whose glass is always half full).

We had to give both managers time. After 1.5 years with Ange there were too many small issues he wasn’t addressing. Things like how we didn’t contest throw ins etc. But I’m glad we kept him on and won a trophy, and then replaced him. He’ll go down as a success.

To write Frank off after half a season is stupid. Furthermore all this nonsense about cowardly play is just gonads. Personally I see Frank addressing problems from previous games all the time and being pragmatic. Which he’s proven at, and why we hired him. I’d much prefer a manager who’s on a path forward and will incrementally improve the side rather than dazzle crash and burn. We’re still repairing the mess from the last manager. We broke a lot of key players with a crude school-yard press tactic. Frank on the other hand will use a press when needed, so the players won’t drop like flies and will be able to build long term.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Where's the 'If you still need to purge yourself of Poch' thread?

 

[glorygloryeze]

No, I'm not forgetting those. I thought against Brighton we played really well and then dropped off instead of carrying on attacking the way we had in the first half. Palace and Ipswich I think were after European games against opponents having a full week to prepare, where our really small squad was exposed. Right at the start of that season I said numerous times on here that we had made a big mistake going into the season with such a small, inexperienced squad.

This is disingenuous in that i'm certain you wouldn't give Frank that "the other team had a week to prepare" excuse even though he is in his FIRST season in the job AND having to navigate the league and a much tougher European competition.

The less said about you excusing a loss against a promoted team who were yet to win in the league at that time or a Palace team who were also yet to win, the better for saving my breath.

Not like i'm particularly pro-Frank, but your inconsistency in appraisal is reeking loud and clear

 

[Muttley]

This is disingenuous in that i'm certain you wouldn't give Frank that "the other team had a week to prepare" excuse even though he is in his FIRST season in the job AND having to navigate the league and a much tougher European competition.

The less said about you excusing a loss against a promoted team who were yet to win in the league at that time or a Palace team who were also yet to win, the better for saving my breath.

Not like i'm particularly pro-Frank, but your inconsistency in appraisal is reeking loud and clear

That was my point about comparing Ange in season 2 to Frank in season 1.

Ange just had the league and 2 domestic cups to worry about in season 1. As a new coach he had all the time in the world to nurture his squad on the training ground. Frank has been on a crazy match schedule and it will take longer for him to implement systems.

It's not a fair comparison.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That was my point about comparing Ange in season 2 to Frank in season 1.

Ange just had the league and 2 domestic cups to worry about in season 1. As a new coach he had all the time in the world to nurture his squad on the training ground. Frank has been on a crazy match schedule and it will take longer for him to implement systems.

It's not a fair comparison.

But Frank knows the league and has a lot more players to chose from … does that counter it? I am being facetious

Best thing is to not compare and look at what we can see now

Don’t really get all the need to look backwards for reasons why we are now all the time. We’re not bringing Ange or conte back for example. We don’t have Kane or son or even Hojberg (yeah I’m taking the tinkle again).

So what we have now is what we have

 

[Muttley]

But Frank knows the league and has a lot more players to chose from … does that counter it? I am being facetious

Best thing is to not compare and look at what we can see now

Don’t really get all the need to look backwards for reasons why we are now all the time. We’re not bringing Ange or conte back for example. We don’t have Kane or son or even Hojberg (yeah I’m taking the tinkle again).

So what we have now is what we have

That's fair. As you know, I'm a massive fan of looking forward rather than backwards.

I'm mostly intrigued about what Frank thinks of his new squad. It his job to optimise what he has been given to work with but I get the feeling he'd churn a quarter or third of it given a chance.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

That's fair. As you know, I'm a massive fan of looking forward rather than backwards.

I'm mostly intrigued about what Frank thinks of his new squad. It his job to optimise what he has been given to work with but I get the feeling he'd churn a quarter or third of it given a chance.

I think he is failing to get the best out of what he has
It’s that simple
Don’t know why and don’t how he fixes it TBH
I think though with that being the case (imo) and the okayed all having demonstrated capabilities here and/or elsewhere a judgement call will need to be made at some point

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think he is failing to get the best out of what he has
It’s that simple
Don’t know why and don’t how he fixes it TBH
I think though with that being the case (imo) and the okayed all having demonstrated capabilities here and/or elsewhere a judgement call will need to be made at some point

You might be right about Frank not getting the best out of what he has...but what are we using as a basis for that?
Can we point to a set of games where the current combination of players was 'playing at its best'?
And how far below that level are we currently?

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Where's the 'If you still need to purge yourself of Poch' thread?

I usually say the Poch debate comes around as regular as Christmas, this time its actually come at Christmas

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You might be right about Frank not getting the best out of what he has...but what are we using as a basis for that?
Can we point to a set of games where the current combination of players was 'playing at its best'?
And how far below that level are we currently?

No, not unless this is their level

But having seen all these players play better here and elsewhere I think it’s fair to say none are playing their best football here, now. That’s their level they gave set as players

 

[Muttley]

No, not unless this is their level

But having seen all these players play better here and elsewhere I think it’s fair to say none are playing their best football here, now. That’s their level they gave set as players

My feeling is that as long as we see periods in games where things look good and we are still accumulating points then we need to stick with it. Against Liverpool there was more than enough evidence to support Frank's case whether we had 11, 10 or 9 men. There were periods in all of these spells where we looked decent.

I would say the same about Ange before lasts season't injury crisis. He kept teasing us and building optimism and then the sucker punches would flaw us. The difference is that Ange had 18 months at that point to implement his systems on a squad. They weren't working. Frank has had a third of that time.

I wouldn't say that Frank's systems aren't working yet as it is way too early. I have a feeling things will start to click in the second half of this season, perhaps with a major signing and return of some familiar faces. My bigger concern is perhaps the lack of acknowledgment that the entire PL has moved to dire, functional football yet the Spurs faithful still want Ossie football. That is not going to happen even if I has GHod like powers and could reincarnate Terry Venables.

The boxing day fixture will be intriguing, All of sudden, Palace would be on 3 losses on the bounce if we prosper. That Leeds Utd thumping could introduce some fragility their side.

 

[Bishop]

I accept it is hard to argue against the best side we've had in 15 years. And the best manager since 1978-84...especially as this side was proven. However some of the views of Romero I've seen are comical. He is absolutely Toby's equal in terms of influence, not as good in the air but better on the floor.

Romero is not as good a passer. Youv'e truly forgotten how good Toby actually was on the ball. A better defender and a better passer.

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[Bedfordspurs]

My feeling is that as long as we see periods in games where things look good and we are still accumulating points then we need to stick with it. Against Liverpool there was more than enough evidence to support Frank's case whether we had 11, 10 or 9 men. There were periods in all of these spells where we looked decent.

I would say the same about Ange before lasts season't injury crisis. He kept teasing us and building optimism and then the sucker punches would flaw us. The difference is that Ange had 18 months at that point to implement his systems on a squad. They weren't working. Frank has had a third of that time.

I wouldn't say that Frank's systems aren't working yet as it is way too early. I have a feeling things will start to click in the second half of this season, perhaps with a major signing and return of some familiar faces. My bigger concern is perhaps the lack of acknowledgment that the entire PL has moved to dire, functional football yet the Spurs faithful still want Ossie football. That is not going to happen even if I has GHod like powers and could reincarnate Terry Venables.

The boxing day fixture will be intriguing, All of sudden, Palace would be on 3 losses on the bounce if we prosper. That Leeds Utd thumping could introduce some fragility their side.

You think the reaction from the players has something to do with the manager?
All i say is we looked better the less players we had which isn’t a great testament for a manager

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Romero is not as good a passer. Youv'e truly forgotten how good Toby actually was on the ball. A better defender and a better passer.

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Toby js better than Romero
Jan is better than VDV
The team Poch had was better man for man across the board
No arguments imo

 

[harr1984]

Toby js better than Romero
Jan is better than VDV
The team Poch had was better man for man across the board
No arguments imo

Agree. But you can't properly judge different managers based on that because one coach could make them better than if another was coaching them. Would Poch have us playing better than we are and some players looking better than they currently do? Hmmmm.....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Agree. But you can't properly judge different managers based on that because one coach could make them better than if another was coaching them. Would Poch have us playing better than we are and some players looking better than they currently do? Hmmmm.....

Maybe. But it’s looking bacwards again rather than forward or even in today
I believe a coach who can engage and motivate players and make them believe this is it… this is the best guys… that works so much more with players eho believe they top drawer
Poch did that I believe so he may be able to get players at their best level and motivation

 

[Muttley]

Poch did that I believe so he may be able to get players at their best level and motivation

Do you think we would have said this about Poch in December season 1? We only really knew about his attention to detail and nurturing skills way after in my opinion. At this stage of Poch's journey some were still saying we should have got Frank de Boer from Ajax.

My guess is we will see some breakthroughs with guys like Bergval very soon. He's operating at 84% pass accuracy in the PL. Gray is just over 90%. Frank and his coaches will be working like crazy on helping Bergval find the balance between his free spirit and having the right disciplines in the middle of the park. Poch never really achieved that with Dele who never quite found that balance. He always took the wrong risks in deep positions in a much better side.

Mbuemo was a reasonably long nurturing project with Frank. Damsgard another. I reckon Frank does have those Poch like skills.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Mbuemo was a reasonably long nurturing project with Frank. Damsgard another. I reckon Frank does have those Poch like skills.

And they are seeing the benefit of the work he did with Schade who he integrated into the side in preparation for the next stage when players left.

He had a very well thought out side at Brentford and helped with the club around him making the right decisions on squad development at their level. We are a mess currently that is seen from top to near on bottom.

I know we are having a tough time of it but some seem really keen to heap on issues and theories about Frank to over play him as the poor manager.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Do you think we would have said this about Poch in December season 1? We only really knew about his attention to detail and nurturing skills way after in my opinion. At this stage of Poch's journey some were still saying we should have got Frank de Boer from Ajax.

My guess is we will see some breakthroughs with guys like Bergval very soon. He's operating at 84% pass accuracy in the PL. Gray is just over 90%. Frank and his coaches will be working like crazy on helping Bergval find the balance between his free spirit and having the right disciplines in the middle of the park. Poch never really achieved that with Dele who never quite found that balance. He always took the wrong risks in deep positions in a much better side.

Mbuemo was a reasonably long nurturing project with Frank. Damsgard another. I reckon Frank does have those Poch like skills.

We didn’t even know if Poch could manage imo
He only had 4 years experience
But he came in on a low
And I know people will say 17th was a low but 300k fans on that parade may disagree
And I’ll always say with players it takes time but how much is coached and how much is them is key… and impossible to say
Then add tactics and structure
We have neither of those and that doesn’t give anyone a platform to play off imo

 

[Muttley]

We didn’t even know if Poch could manage imo
He only had 4 years experience
But he came in on a low
And I know people will say 17th was a low but 300k fans on that parade may disagree
And I’ll always say with players it takes time but how much is coached and how much is them is key… and impossible to say
Then add tactics and structure
We have neither of those and that doesn’t give anyone a platform to play off imo

Yep, and we're not playing one game a week having loads of time on the training ground to embed new philosophies. Also, not forgetting that Frank, like any new manager, has had to untangle the prior manager's systems and rebuild his own.

For me, the biggest and most single thing that Frank needed to focus on was how he could fix the leaks at the back. We had 3 seasons of conceding over 60 goals a season in the PL and that takes a long term toll on any football squad. I know as Spurs fans we want to talk about the other end as that is the "Spurs way" but it really isn't as important as building the strong foundations at the back. When Frank says things like losing possession 25 times more than we should and therefore introducing defensive risk, everyone jumps on him. Perhaps he should have just said "Yeah mate, that's the Spurs way" and been idolised by some.

That is not the way I think. I'm just happy to build more data points and learn more and more about the guy's abilities over this season.