ENIC

[Lilbaz]

IIRC (if it's same interview), he said it was the duty of the board to evaluate any offers and determine if it was right/appropriate for club/shareholders.

Think people are confusing want to, plan to, or possibly. I'm not interested in selling my car/house right now, but if someone offered the right price, I would. Yes if someone offered ENIC 6B for Spurs, it's sold.

Yeah ofcourse. The clubs still growing. Next season we will earn record turnover. We're still building. For levy there is no need to sell.
Lewis trust dunno.

But the club is and has always been for sale. If the right offer comes in. The same as any player.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

They could/may sell, at some point the offer will be right, that however is different from their objective was to sell (flip, doing it on cheap narrative), what that original time horizon was and is, unknown. And to put into context, ENIC have held on to Spurs longer than any other club in the PL by a pretty big margin (next oldest owners are City, 7 years after), so it doesn't seem owner hold on to clubs for 25+ years.

You would build a stadium and a training round, you wouldn't build a billion dollar stadium with all the best functionality (decision to have no obstructed view, decision to use glass on roof, decision to pre-wire for media, biggest screens in Europe), there are literally hundreds of decisions made that would/will cut into eventual profit that just wasn't necessary. For context Chelsea sold a club that had sketchy ground rights and a brick stadium for >$4B (total), if (as the accusation always is), the only objective was to maximize profits, what Levy did, does not make sense (you are absolutely not maximizing if you overspend on improvements/upgrades)

Yeah to be clear I’ve never been one of the ‘ENIC want to flip it on the cheap’ people. But I do believe they are trying to get as much value into the club as possible.

When I think about my understanding of Levy, I can absolutely see why he would spend top of the range on the stadium, but not on players. Because one of them is sustainable, an asset that will continue to grow the value of the club, and one of them is a potentially fleeting, uncertain outcome. I’ve never bought into the idea that he is cheap, but I’ve always assumed that in order to get the maximum possible price, having everything within the club be seen as top of the range would be consistent with that.

They’re basically creating the narrative that this is the next great super club in waiting.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yeah to be clear I’ve never been one of the ‘ENIC want to flip it on the cheap’ people. But I do believe they are trying to get as much value into the club as possible.

When I think about my understanding of Levy, I can absolutely see why he would spend top of the range on the stadium, but not on players. Because one of them is sustainable, an asset that will continue to grow the value of the club, and one of them is a potentially fleeting, uncertain outcome. I’ve never bought into the idea that he is cheap, but I’ve always assumed that in order to get the maximum possible price, having everything within the club be seen as top of the range would be consistent with that.

They’re basically creating the narrative that this is the next great super club in waiting.

Too add.....

Obviously it's became clear to DL that Lewis was never going to bankroll a big push even if the timing looked right.

So he's effectively on his own. So all he can do is maximize what HE can affect. Build up the infrastructure to the best of his ability and milk the income the best he can to support the team.

I think I'd change the words in your second paragraph to 'predictable' and 'unpredictable'. He controls everything within his reach...he makes that as predictable as possible. It's those pesky other clubs that are unpredictable. You go to war with them with your lesser finite resources. That scares DL, as to go balls deep against them could have severe consequences. Especially now it's a lifetimes work for him. Think of that long snake on the snakes and ladders board.

(As a side note, I feel quite sad for him that he had (or had already made) that decision to make on Ange smack bang in the middle of something that he's probably desired as much as all of us. ie a time for emotions not cold hard business decisions)

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Too add.....

Obviously it's became clear to DL that Lewis was never going to bankroll a big push even if the timing looked right.

So he's effectively on his own. So all he can do is maximize what HE can affect. Build up the infrastructure to the best of his ability and milk the income the best he can to support the team.

I think I'd change the words in your second paragraph to 'predictable' and 'unpredictable'. He controls everything within his reach...he makes that as predictable as possible. It's those pesky other clubs that are unpredictable. You go to war with them with your lesser finite resources. That scares DL, as to go balls deep against them could have severe consequences. Especially now it's a lifetimes work for him. Think of that long snake on the snakes and ladders board.

(As a side note, I feel quite sad for him that he had (or had already made) that decision to make on Ange smack bang in the middle of something that he's probably desired as much as all of us. ie a time for emotions not cold hard business decisions)

Yeah, predictable vs unpredictable is a great way to put it. I can completely see why he wants the foundations of the club to be rock solid so that when we do compete, it won’t be fleeting.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yeah, predictable vs unpredictable is a great way to put it. I can completely see why he wants the foundations of the club to be rock solid so that when we do compete, it won’t be fleeting.

I think that's always something we will, and should be grateful for, ie he's risen the floor of the infrastructure and finances, so whether it's him or someone else that benefits from it, it's there in place now and that will be his legacy.

Another thing that must grate him is Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project were nothing clubs. So not only have they trumped their way into the picture, they've distorted the finance situation by means of not having to be careful. Without them we'd be up against Liverpool United Arsenal, two of which we have virtually caught in terms of income.

So although Levy doesn't have that much more to offer in expanding revenues, the goons and Liverpool show there is a hope, that if we keep refining our processes, get smarter and smarter (usually via great employees), some astute signings (a couple that turn out to be ballers), and of course a bit of luck.
That's all he can do now realistically?

On a side note: (and this is just a question, no malice ) You were always a valued poster in the past.....you returned, after quite a while, to say your piece in regards to DL, I paraphrase but basically 'you'd had enough'. I thought the timing somewhat bizarre given that we'd just won a trophy, which along with, 'we don't spend enough money', is the two biggest sticks he gets beaten with?

 

[Finney Is Back]

They could/may sell, at some point the offer will be right, that however is different from their objective was to sell (flip, doing it on cheap narrative), what that original time horizon was and is, unknown. And to put into context, ENIC have held on to Spurs longer than any other club in the PL by a pretty big margin (next oldest owners are City, 7 years after), so it doesn't seem owner hold on to clubs for 25+ years.

You would build a stadium and a training round, you wouldn't build a billion dollar stadium with all the best functionality (decision to have no obstructed view, decision to use glass on roof, decision to pre-wire for media, biggest screens in Europe), there are literally hundreds of decisions made that would/will cut into eventual profit that just wasn't necessary. For context Chelsea sold a club that had sketchy ground rights and a brick stadium for >$4B (total), if (as the accusation always is), the only objective was to maximize profits, what Levy did, does not make sense (you are absolutely not maximizing if you overspend on improvements/upgrades)

You might.... Especially if the top class facilities mean that you can charge top prices and are also able to attract lots of non football events. If you're loading the debt onto the club instead of owner funding it then spending more in order to maximise revenue and therefore asset valuation is completely viable business strategy.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think that's always something we will, and should be grateful for, ie he's risen the floor of the infrastructure and finances, so whether it's him or someone else that benefits from it, it's there in place now and that will be his legacy.

Another thing that must grate him is Chelsea and Emirates Marketing Project were nothing clubs. So not only have they trumped their way into the picture, they've distorted the finance situation by means of not having to be careful. Without them we'd be up against Liverpool United Arsenal, two of which we have virtually caught in terms of income.

So although Levy doesn't have that much more to offer in expanding revenues, the goons and Liverpool show there is a hope, that if we keep refining our processes, get smarter and smarter (usually via great employees), some astute signings (a couple that turn out to be ballers), and of course a bit of luck.
That's all he can do now realistically?

On a side note: (and this is just a question, no malice ) You were always a valued poster in the past.....you returned, after quite a while, to say your piece in regards to DL, I paraphrase but basically 'you'd had enough'. I thought the timing somewhat bizarre given that we'd just won a trophy, which along with, 'we don't spend enough money', is the two biggest sticks he gets beaten with?

agreed on all counts!

I think I actually came back more because I felt a sense of wanting to ensure Ange was defended online in a small pocket of the internet…I just felt strongly that he deserved respect and felt the urge to discuss it since it was such a uniquely interesting time - winning a trophy and the fan base divided on whether the manager deserved to stay.

As it relates to Levy, I said something a few pages back maybe that if his life’s work is to put us in a position where the club is so valuable that he can sell a portion of it, and because the foundations of the club are now so fantastic, that would allow us to compete with the top clubs, then I’d say bravo, and what a remarkable man. I really mean that. I have immense respect for his acumen and having this long term perspective on everything.

I think at the same time he massively got it wrong in sacking Poch. I was always one of the biggest Levy defenders but around that time the shine starting coming off in the sense of ‘oh, maybe there isn’t one big plan that just gets executed exactly how he designs it.’ I felt like he didn’t understand what made us successful under Poch, and misread where we were as a club, or what was possible in a sporting sense.

And it made me realise, I was always so on board with doing it ‘the right’ way. I thought the eventual glory would be all the sweeter because we didn’t cheat to get there. But the stadium alone didn’t put us on a new footing to genuinely compete to win the league - it was just another step in raising our floor and improving our foundations. And at what point do we our interests as fans and that of our owners diverge? I think we’re at that point. I think we’ve done the hardest possible thing, which is to build world leading stadium and training infrastructure in a sustainable way, and the club is now valued in the billions.

So with that in mind, we’ve earned the multi billion valuation. We’ve done that fairly. We’ve done that the hard way. Now I feel like any more years of waiting to pay down debt so we have a bit more to spend on the team…does that matter anymore? I want to win the league. I don’t want to be hamstrung and for every great manager we have to think there is a ceiling. I think we’ve earned it. And whether that’s ENIC in combination with other investors, or a new owner, I’m fine either way. I just want to genuinely compete for the league now, not be this club that always has the promise of something more.

Obviously we might end up winning the league under ENIC, just waiting for their strategy on their own to pay off. If it happens I’d be delighted. I just think it’s less likely and will take longer. But I don’t take anything away from Levy because what he’s done to get us to this point has been pretty amazing.

 

[Bishop]

Bit harsh?

Richarlison started 30+ league games 4 out of 5 PL seasons before joining us, starting 28 in the last one. When fit and playing as a striker for us he's scored at a good rate.

Solanke has had one season in a struggling team where he imo overall played well, but underperfomed in regards to goals.

Ive tried so hard regarding the various replies to not respond, but I'm sorry mate Richy is not a top quality player, he's not worth 60m, he's not a top striker etc. Did we we over pay hell yeah. He was always going to be a failure because he's just not a good player.

Solanke we will see with time. As it stands he was rather expensive for at the end of the day one good season. I'm reasonably confident Frank can use him more effectively but it's far from a forgone conclusion and even at his best he's a decent striker at best really.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

think I actually came back more because I felt a sense of wanting to ensure Ange was defended online in a small pocket of the internet…I just felt strongly that he deserved respect and felt the urge to discuss it since it was such a uniquely interesting time - winning a trophy and the fan base divided on whether the manager deserved to stay.

That's fair do's mate. Personally I couldn't feel strongly either way about Anges future, simply because both sides could reason a convincing case.

As it relates to Levy, I said something a few pages back maybe that if his life’s work is to put us in a position where the club is so valuable that he can sell a portion of it, and because the foundations of the club are now so fantastic, that would allow us to compete with the top clubs, then I’d say bravo, and what a remarkable man. I really mean that. I have immense respect for his acumen and having this long term perspective on everything.

in isolation, to have a long term vision in this industry, in football, is unheard of...so chapeau just to have the energy and rhino skin to plough on.

think at the same time he massively got it wrong in sacking Poch. I was always one of the biggest Levy defenders but around that time the shine starting coming off in the sense of ‘oh, maybe there isn’t one big plan that just gets executed exactly how he designs it.’ I felt like he didn’t understand what made us successful under Poch, and misread where we were as a club, or what was possible in a sporting se

From a distance sacking Poch looks a poor decision, but closer in I think Poch himself was burnt out (potentially from working in the situation the club had presented him?). I agree, I think Levy thought the infrastructure he'd built was world class and thought we were big time, and needed a big time manager. That was his mistake.
The problem Poch left him with was raised expectations...that have not abated

And it made me realise, I was always so on board with doing it ‘the right’ way. I thought the eventual glory would be all the sweeter because we didn’t cheat to get there. But the stadium alone didn’t put us on a new footing to genuinely compete to win the league - it was just another step in raising our floor and improving our foundations. And at what point do we our interests as fans and that of our owners diverge? I think we’re at that point. I think we’ve done the hardest possible thing, which is to build world leading stadium and training infrastructure in a sustainable way, and the club is now valued in the billions.

So with that in mind, we’ve earned the multi billion valuation. We’ve done that fairly. We’ve done that the hard way. Now I feel like any more years of waiting to pay down debt so we have a bit more to spend on the team…does that matter anymore? I want to win the league. I don’t want to be hamstrung and for every great manager we have to think there is a ceiling. I think we’ve earned it. And whether that’s ENIC in combination with other investors, or a new owner, I’m fine either way. I just want to genuinely compete for the league now, not be this club that always has the promise of something more.

Personally I'm happy staying on that course (undoubtedly it would be sweeter if we win that way), I agree it is probably going to require outside investment to give us the next leg up.
So the question is ....do you have any red lines when it comes to abandoning 'doing it the right way'. ?

Obviously we might end up winning the league under ENIC, just waiting for their strategy on their own to pay off. If it happens I’d be delighted. I just think it’s less likely and will take longer.

It might take longer it might not. Most clubs will require the right manager to turn up. We had it once with a lot less financial clout. Genuine title races and 90mins from winning the biggest pot in football. I think you can have more money than we have now, like many clubs have, but you still need that special manager. (Of course, along with solid work supporting him behind the scenes)

 

[Raziel]

Ive tried so hard regarding the various replies to not respond, but I'm sorry mate Richy is not a top quality player, he's not worth 60m, he's not a top striker etc. Did we we over pay hell yeah. He was always going to be a failure because he's just not a good player.

Solanke we will see with time. As it stands he was rather expensive for at the end of the day one good season. I'm reasonably confident Frank can use him more effectively but it's far from a forgone conclusion and even at his best he's a decent striker at best really.

60M for someone that scores goals in the PL isn't expensive (regardless of opinion of good/not)

Hojlund was £64M, Nkunku was £52M, Nunez was (w/add ons) £85M, Havertz £65M, all trash ..

 

[Bishop]

60M for someone that scores goals in the PL isn't expensive (regardless of opinion of good/not)

Hojlund was £64M, Nkunku was £52M, Nunez was (w/add ons) £85M, Havertz £65M, all trash ..

Pretty much all bad players with Nunez being an exception due to his perceived potential and Nkinku who isn't a striker but is an AM being misplayed and Richy didn't even score goals in the PL. 13 goals was his best season, 60m for 13 goals.

 

[Raziel]

Pretty much all bad players with Nunez being an exception due to his perceived potential and Nkinku who isn't a striker but is an AM being misplayed and Richy didn't even score goals in the PL. 13 goals was his best season, 60m for 13 goals.

Come on mate, get you don't rate him, but pre 25 he scored 10+ goals in the PL 3 times in an utter brick Everton side. We paid 60M for a player who scored 53 in 152 (1 in 3) in an awful side that was still young.

Yes we probably overpaid, yes it didn't work out, hindsight does that ..