Wwwwdwdlwww

[Roland Beurre]

Wwwwdwdlwww

Worst URL ever.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

The UEFA cup as it was then was still a very decent competition when we qualified that first year.

Group stage - Bruges, Levekusen, Besiktas. Latter stages - Feyernoord (if they weren't kicked out), Braga & Sevilla. Some of those were very very good teams and it was a difficult route to navigate.

The group stages now don't compare - its like sleep walking until the knock out phase. Some of the teams now, with all due respect to them, shouldn't be on the same pitch as a team of Tottenham Hotspur's standing.

Agree to a point BUT all teams deserve to start or compete somewhere., and from our point of view (and other big clubs) that group phase can be an oppurtunity to get squad players game time and maybe the odd one playing themselves into the prem team. it could literally be a B team.

And from the knock-outs it can be more competitive than the CL. I mean Fiorentina as a last 32 opponent, then another 3 match-ups just to make the final, thats tough. All it lacks is those giant 4/5 teams and a whole load of marketing b*llocks behind it.

 

[NWND]

To be fair the Champions League is going that way

Group Stages - Pap
Early Knock Outs - Watchable
Final 8 - Very decent

Yeah the Champions League group stage has some very poor games. The seeding system is mostly very skewed so you usually end up with Chelsea playing a load of teams from Cyprus, Greece and Turkey etc.

In fact i've not really bothered to watch the CL group phase much at all these last couple of seasons.

In terms of watchability, the whole concept of a group stage of a cup-competition is a bit c***. It's all about making as much money as possible though.

It;s about guaranteeing teams a minimum number of games, rather than getting knocked out in the first round.

If I had it my way, you'd go back to the CL being just champions and a straight knock-out competition, the EL being 2nd - 4th for big leagues and various reductions downwards and cup-winners cup for domestic cup winners again.

 

[Grays_1890]

If I had it my way, you'd go back to the CL being just champions and a straight knock-out competition, the EL being 2nd - 4th for big leagues and various reductions downwards and cup-winners cup for domestic cup winners again.

Amen on that one, and they you end up with real power houses of places in far flung Hungary who get to the Semi Final or Belgrade. I loved them days.

I found my 91/92 football Italia annual the other day and it showed the European Cup ties for the season, some of the names in that cup, never again will you see them in the same level.

Red Star, Sparta in the last stages, Malmo, Steaua Bucuresti

Great days there were

 

[NWND]

Amen on that one, and they you end up with real power houses of places in far flung Hungary who get to the Semi Final or Belgrade. I loved them days.

I found my 91/92 football Italia annual the other day and it showed the European Cup ties for the season, some of the names in that cup, never again will you see them in the same level.

Red Star, Sparta in the last stages, Malmo, Steaua Bucuresti

Great days there were

I think it was brilliant. Football was a lot more interesting back then. You had star players bourne out of nowhere in these cup runs, who would then sign for a big italian team or Barca & Real Madrid. Now these clubs poach all these players as kids before they've even had a run with their teams and massive local clubs are barely noticed.

The Champions League is boring now for me. Oh wow, another Real Madrid v Bayern Munich final, how utterly tedious.

 

[Grays_1890]

I think it was brilliant. Football was a lot more interesting back then. You had star players bourne out of nowhere in these cup runs, who would then sign for a big italian team or Barca & Real Madrid. Now these clubs poach all these players as kids before they've even had a run with their teams and massive local clubs are barely noticed.

The Champions League is boring now for me. Oh wow, another Real Madrid v Bayern Munich final, how utterly tedious.

Exactly and you know its tedious, proven tedious when they analyse the groups or the draw and start speculating the final or group winners "its all set up for a Real Madrid v Bayern Final" and that comments made 8 games before the final, when a competition gets like that you know its dying.

 

[scaramanga]

Agree to a point BUT all teams deserve to start or compete somewhere., and from our point of view (and other big clubs) that group phase can be an oppurtunity to get squad players game time and maybe the odd one playing themselves into the prem team. it could literally be a B team.

And from the knock-outs it can be more competitive than the CL. I mean Fiorentina as a last 32 opponent, then another 3 match-ups just to make the final, thats tough. All it lacks is those giant 4/5 teams and a whole load of marketing b*llocks behind it.

All of the Estonian pub teams deserve a chance, there just needs to be a load more preliminary rounds before PL teams are introduced.

We should really be coming in at the last 32 stage.

 

[tynesidespur]

All of the Estonian pub teams deserve a chance, there just needs to be a load more preliminary rounds before PL teams are introduced.

We should really be coming in at the last 32 stage.

100% agree with this.

There's even an argument that we should be in some sort of preliminary for the CL - say top 3 qualify, next 3 in PL go into a premilinary round for CL. How teams like NK Maribor are playing in the CL when we've played them the year before in the Europa league and frankly, we're on a different planet ability-wise. There's no way we should be damned to the lower competition while Maribor make up the numbers in the CL.

 

[tynesidespur]

double post

 

[Spur of the moment]

100% agree with this.

There's even an argument that we should be in some sort of preliminary for the CL - say top 3 qualify, next 3 in PL go into a premilinary round for CL. How teams like NK Maribor are playing in the CL when we've played them the year before in the Europa league and frankly, we're on a different planet ability-wise. There's no way we should be damned to the lower competition while Maribor make up the numbers in the CL.

Agree broadly but

'Thus far in the current Champions League group stage campaign, Maribor has managed to draw with all three apponents (Schalke04, Sporting Lisbon and Chelsea) and has lost once against Chelsea Football club.'

Not too shabby tbf.

 

[Raziel]

If I had it my way, you'd go back to the CL being just champions and a straight knock-out competition, the EL being 2nd - 4th for big leagues and various reductions downwards and cup-winners cup for domestic cup winners again.

We've talked about this before, CL is easy to fix

- CL should be a cup winners cup, i.e. League & domestic cup & Europa winners
- Should be a knockout, with seeding and early rounds for smaller leagues
- No dropdown to Europa

Re Europa opponents, honestly I don't get the hate for the small sides, in a cup I'm happy to see Spurs play anyone, bit of **** attitude towards clubs/countries that isn't cool on this board sometimes.

 

[SpursNorway]

I remember how happy we were when we first believed we were going to qualify for Europe for the first time under Jol (after a decade+ without)

Then = We are going European tour
Now = put out the kids, ****pot cup, etc.

=D> Spot on!

 

[Spur of the moment]

Does seem daft that champions from countries like Estonia (average league attendance 255), Gibraltar (total population 29k), San Marino (ground capacity of champions, 500) get to quality for the preliminary rounds every year regardless whilst the 13th richest club on the planet rarely gets the chance through a mere accident of geography.

 

[jimmyb]

The UEFA cup as it was then was still a very decent competition when we qualified that first year.

Group stage - Bruges, Levekusen, Besiktas. Latter stages - Feyernoord (if they weren't kicked out), Braga & Sevilla. Some of those were very very good teams and it was a difficult route to navigate.

The group stages now don't compare - its like sleep walking until the knock out phase. Some of the teams now, with all due respect to them, shouldn't be on the same pitch as a team of Tottenham Hotspur's standing.

The standard of teams entered for the UEFA Cup back in 2006 was no better than it is now.

The big difference is that we weren't seeded back then, so we had a tough group.

Now, by contrast, we are perennially one of the top three or four seeded teams in group stage of the EL. So, inevitably, we get easier draws (on paper).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Does seem daft that champions from countries like Estonia (average league attendance 255), Gibraltar (total population 29k), San Marino (ground capacity of champions, 500) get to quality for the preliminary rounds every year regardless whilst the 13th richest club on the planet rarely gets the chance through a mere accident of geography.

But if you turn that round, the only reason that we are the 13th richest club is also through a mere accident of geography. If we happened to instead be the 5th or 6th biggest club in Estonia or Lithuania or Finland, Scotland or Ireland, etc then we wouldn't get anywhere near playing even Europa League football. You can therefore argue that we already benefit hugely from our accident of geography.

The problem with excluding the clubs from the smaller nations at the expense of those from the larger nations is that you would end up having a competition that was made up of 10 clubs from England, 8 from Germany, 6 from Italy and Spain, 4 from France and 3 each from Portugal, Turkey, Greece and The Netherlands.

 

[billyiddo]

Id rather see less clubs from the bigger nations and a more even spread representing Europe as a whole.

 

[tynesidespur]

But if you turn that round, the only reason that we are the 13th richest club is also through a mere accident of geography. If we happened to instead be the 5th or 6th biggest club in Estonia or Lithuania or Finland, Scotland or Ireland, etc then we wouldn't get anywhere near playing even Europa League football. You can therefore argue that we already benefit hugely from our accident of geography.

The problem with excluding the clubs from the smaller nations at the expense of those from the larger nations is that you would end up having a competition that was made up of 10 clubs from England, 8 from Germany, 6 from Italy and Spain, 4 from France and 3 each from Portugal, Turkey, Greece and The Netherlands.

As has been said it might be better to have preliminary play-offs to decide who gets a crack at the big guns. The top European competitions should be played out by the best teams. If that means a seeding system and qualifiers for that then I'm all for it. If the best teams are from the countries you have suggested then its up to the minnows to knock them out, otherwise I think it should be widened to allow us and others in England and other Euro countries a crack.

 

[Raziel]

Does seem daft that champions from countries like Estonia (average league attendance 255), Gibraltar (total population 29k), San Marino (ground capacity of champions, 500) get to quality for the preliminary rounds every year regardless whilst the 13th richest club on the planet rarely gets the chance through a mere accident of geography.

might be something in that (champions) ..

where it breaks is when the 3rd/4th place team enters

It's the challenge football faces in does it continue down the all can enter path with pros of fairly tale runs, David/Goliath match ups, cons of mismatched, uninteresting games, or does it do a cricket world cup approach, seeded, big teams always play, smaller teams qualify to get there.

 

[jimmyb]

As has been said it might be better to have preliminary play-offs to decide who gets a crack at the big guns. The top European competitions should be played out by the best teams. If that means a seeding system and qualifiers for that then I'm all for it. If the best teams are from the countries you have suggested then its up to the minnows to knock them out, otherwise I think it should be widened to allow us and others in England and other Euro countries a crack.

I'm with Finney on this.

Clubs from the smaller countries deserve their chance.

Looking back at the golden era of European football, there was no seeding; no group stages; nor any other rule designed to ensure that the biggest clubs progressed to the latter stages.

Just straight, knockout football. Sport as it should be. And it was great. It didn't matter that we were playing Hadjuk Split (and not, say, Bayern Munich) in the semi final of the UEFA Cup. It only mattered that it WAS the semi final of the UEFA Cup. And it was was a trophy that we dearly wanted to win.

 

[Spur of the moment]

The problem with excluding the clubs from the smaller nations at the expense of those from the larger nations is that you would end up having a competition that was made up of 10 clubs from England, 8 from Germany, 6 from Italy and Spain, 4 from France and 3 each from Portugal, Turkey, Greece and The Netherlands.

What's the problem with having only the top teams in Europe competing for the top prize? That would suit very nicely thank you!

Well of course we all know why the minnows have to be allowed in but as others have argued we could do with a better system of seeding.