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Why don't we produce defensive midfielders

Danishfurniturelover

Danishfurniturelover

the prettiest spice girl
How come we don't produce good defensive midfielders in England.

I am watching France v Germany. France particularly produce good defensive midfielders but though in England we are producing better players we don't do defensive midfielders.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Same reason we don't produce top quality creative players, easier and quicker to buy foreign players.
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with long term planning the academy is supposed to provide options over time.

this is the other footballing issue that we need to look at - a dearth of talents coming through the system.

its hard to judge young talents but I think we lost something when we lost McDermott and did not replace him adequately. Under McDermott we saw likes of Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Danny Rose and Andros Townsend get effective first team introductions.

Investing in the football development architecture is a dark art and if Levy and henchmen can't get the first team right, I don't expect them to do better with youth.

Levy speaks well here about how the vision post-McDermott :
https://www.football.london/tottenh...m-academy-restructure-john-mcdermott-18762984

“We have taken considerable time to review our staffing structure over the past few months following John McDermott’s departure to join the FA, in order to clearly identify roles and responsibilities in each area of the Academy moving forward," he said.

“We have a proud record of producing Academy players that can step up to our First Team and we believe Dean is the right person to ensure our player development principles and philosophies – intrinsically linked to our identity as a Club – will continue to evolve and be implemented as we move forward into the new season and beyond.
​
Not exactly close to the vision right now but it seems we have taken a cheaper option with internal succession.
 
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metalgear said:
with long term planning the academy is supposed to provide options over time.

this is the other footballing issue that we need to look at - a dearth of talents coming through the system.

its hard to judge young talents but I think we lost something when we lost McDermott and did not replace him adequately. Under McDermott we saw likes of Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Danny Rose and Andros Townsend get effective first team introductions.

Investing in the football development architecture is a dark art and if Levy and henchmen can't get the first team right, I don't expect them to do better with youth.

Levy speaks well here about how the vision post-McDermott :
https://www.football.london/tottenh...m-academy-restructure-john-mcdermott-18762984

“We have taken considerable time to review our staffing structure over the past few months following John McDermott’s departure to join the FA, in order to clearly identify roles and responsibilities in each area of the Academy moving forward," he said.

“We have a proud record of producing Academy players that can step up to our First Team and we believe Dean is the right person to ensure our player development principles and philosophies – intrinsically linked to our identity as a Club – will continue to evolve and be implemented as we move forward into the new season and beyond.
​
Not exactly close to the vision right now but it seems we have taken a cheaper option with internal succession.
Click to expand...

How much does Dean Rastrick earn?
 
metalgear said:
with long term planning the academy is supposed to provide options over time.

this is the other footballing issue that we need to look at - a dearth of talents coming through the system.

its hard to judge young talents but I think we lost something when we lost McDermott and did not replace him adequately. Under McDermott we saw likes of Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Danny Rose and Andros Townsend get effective first team introductions.

Investing in the football development architecture is a dark art and if Levy and henchmen can't get the first team right, I don't expect them to do better with youth.

Levy speaks well here about how the vision post-McDermott :
https://www.football.london/tottenh...m-academy-restructure-john-mcdermott-18762984

“We have taken considerable time to review our staffing structure over the past few months following John McDermott’s departure to join the FA, in order to clearly identify roles and responsibilities in each area of the Academy moving forward," he said.

“We have a proud record of producing Academy players that can step up to our First Team and we believe Dean is the right person to ensure our player development principles and philosophies – intrinsically linked to our identity as a Club – will continue to evolve and be implemented as we move forward into the new season and beyond.
​
Not exactly close to the vision right now but it seems we have taken a cheaper option with internal succession.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Spurs would like to produce home grown talent, but I thought the question was aimed at England. Most teams in the top two division have far too many imported players, no problem with top players coming over but many are just average. At Spurs weve had several young players who could have developed into holding midfield players but they weren't quite good enough.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
How come we don't produce good defensive midfielders in England.

I am watching France v Germany. France particularly produce good defensive midfielders but though in England we are producing better players we don't do defensive midfielders.
Click to expand...

I'd say a bigger question is why so many 'big' countries aren't producing strikers like they used to.

I think Kalvan Phillips is typical of the all-action midfielder many teams are producing tese days rather than an out-and-out 'defensive one. I think Holland' De Jong is a great example of this.

I don't think England do too badly on the cm front tbh
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'd say a bigger question is why so many 'big' countries aren't producing strikers like they used to.

I think Kalvan Phillips is typical of the all-action midfielder many teams are producing tese days rather than an out-and-out 'defensive one. I think Holland' De Jong is a great example of this.

I don't think England do too badly on the cm front tbh
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The change to woe attackers has hurt the strikers role
 
glorygloryeze said:
I'd say a bigger question is why so many 'big' countries aren't producing strikers like they used to.

I think Kalvan Phillips is typical of the all-action midfielder many teams are producing tese days rather than an out-and-out 'defensive one. I think Holland' De Jong is a great example of this.

I don't think England do too badly on the cm front tbh
Click to expand...

I remember when les ferdinand got slated. For saying we wanted to produce players that were more than purely defensive mids like makelele.
 
I think we want to develop midfielders with all around capabilities and then get some specialising in the defensive role. We don't want to develop defensive midfielders who are defensive midfielders because they don't have the skill to be more.
 
Took my daughter training Saturday.

Was watching one of the older groups earlier must have been u5/6/7.
Small pitch split into zones, ball coming in from different angles to start off play, when team lost possession all had to run back to defensive zone. So far so good.

Ball gets chucked into play, 14 kids descend on it, blood and chicken feathers everywhere coach shouting out stop bunching, rinse and repeat.

There were two coaches, with ample space and equipment. They could have had two games going on, assigned zones etc, but non of that was done. These are coaches that will be at least FA Lv2.

And that is still the main problem, we just teach the game wrong from the start. Having done my badges, the lower level ones (which allow you to teach kids) have little to do with football and are more about safeguarding and inclusion. Important as that is you're then still left with kids in their formative years left with a cadre of coaches who are not equipped to teach them.
 
fernadez said:
Took my daughter training Saturday.

Was watching one of the older groups earlier must have been u5/6/7.
Small pitch split into zones, ball coming in from different angles to start off play, when team lost possession all had to run back to defensive zone. So far so good.

Ball gets chucked into play, 14 kids descend on it, blood and chicken feathers everywhere coach shouting out stop bunching, rinse and repeat.

There were two coaches, with ample space and equipment. They could have had two games going on, assigned zones etc, but non of that was done. These are coaches that will be at least FA Lv2.

And that is still the main problem, we just teach the game wrong from the start. Having done my badges, the lower level ones (which allow you to teach kids) have little to do with football and are more about safeguarding and inclusion. Important as that is you're then still left with kids in their formative years left with a cadre of coaches who are not equipped to teach them.
Click to expand...
Not as easy as that - I'm level 2 and honestly hate having to see Instagram players being picked over higher IQ players. Too many parents dont even help with basics like fitness and passing at home in the garden or park, or even watching games and talking through what the pros are doing. This massively impacts players who only train 1 or 2 hours a week.

You don't realise gap knowledge until you review a match and their performances with them to see what they understand. I only got to do this cos I had to record my son's PE footage and used it over Xmas to review team performances with some of the lads... A lot of his teammates literally didn't understand the the role of midfielders and full backs.

I do however agree that it's made even harder with inclusion and safeguarding. Coaches don't get to tell kids to go home anymore. I had one safeguarding officer tell me I couldn't make the team do a lap of the pitch because they weren't listening to the manager. After that, they realised as long that person was there they could do what they want. I end up doing passing sessions for the ones that don't listen and letting the others move to other drills.

It's even worse when you can see a player isn't competitive enough or doesn't enjoy but you have to give them at least 40 mins even though they don't want to play.

Germany and Spain have got it right in teaching the players to be comfortable on the ball, and having good technique. My boy isn't fast or strong, and is quite small, but his technique and radar give him a leveler. If the bigger players had that, they would smoke him.

The biggest challenge with the defensive midfielder role is managers prefer big and fast as opposed to someone who can read the game. Football IQ is massively declining - you can see it in the pros... How many of today's top defenders would have made it to their current level 15 years ago? Very few. The defensive midfielder role is so much more than being fast and aggressive, and that's why there aren't many good ones any more.
 
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