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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

fernadez said:
I get that, and I understand focussing on the one with the best chance. But how do you think this was done, outside of letting players rest and rotating the team. My main confusion is around our performances, structured in Europe and all over the place in the league. I don't understand how concentrating on Europe equals playing with pragmatism, but cause we're not gonna win the league we set up tactically worse. I'm genuinely confused.

Cause the follow on from that is what? We were losing games on purpose? Why couldn't we set up to defend in the league games. I see no reason we couldn't have been better setup and why would that risk us concentrating on the cup?
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Agreed on that - I don't believe we lost on purpose, but I also find it strange that he couldn't apply a bit of defensive pragmatism and cynicism in league games as well. I think Ange would've avoided a lot of the stick he's (rightfully) gotten if he adapted more in the PL too.

carl said:
I couldn't care less what's remembered. If his level is flirting with relegation in order to gamble on winning a cup then 1 season is enough for me.
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Fair enough, we disagree on that. And to be clear, I don't think 17th and 21 losses is acceptable per se, but in the context of what we achieved in the Europa League, it doesn't really bother me. I also believe this season was an outlier in that sense; Ange might not be the second coming of Alex Ferguson, but he's not as poor a manager as many try to make him out to be.
 
Robbo said:
Agreed on that - I don't believe we lost on purpose, but I also find it strange that he couldn't apply a bit of defensive pragmatism and cynicism in league games as well. I think Ange would've avoided a lot of the stick he's (rightfully) gotten if he adapted more in the PL too.


Fair enough, we disagree on that. And to be clear, I don't think 17th and 21 losses is acceptable per se, but in the context of what we achieved in the Europa League, it doesn't really bother me. I also believe this season was an outlier in that sense; Ange might not be the second coming of Alex Ferguson, but he's not as poor a manager as many try to make him out to be.
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Let's just enjoy these next few days, tomorrow is going to be another special day down on the High Road.
 
carl said:
Yet Arsenal played for the title and 2 semi finals with their injuries. In no way does that justify us finishing 17th, no way.
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That team that had two seasons in brick league positions while they built a side that is now performing? Their 'injuries' are comparable to any other team except maybe Forest, who lucked out, and us, who had the most outrageous injuries ever. Arsenal's team is established, a third of our team were in their first season with us. Do you consider facts before you post?
 
Lemonade Money said:
That team that had two seasons in brick league positions while they built a side that is now performing? Their 'injuries' are comparable to any other team except maybe Forest, who lucked out, and us, who had the most outrageous injuries ever. Arsenal's team is established, a third of our team were in their first season with us. Do you consider facts before you post?
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brick league positions? Can you tell me the lowest they finished as we're talking facts now?

They've been without Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard for large parts of the season but still managed to fight on 3 fronts. We on the other hand had to sacrifice 21 league defeats and 17th in the League to get smashed by Gala, escape with a draw at Rangers and beat the mighty Bodo!!

That's the facts
 
carl said:
brick league positions? Can you tell me the lowest they finished as we're talking facts now?

They've been without Saka, Martinelli and Odegaard for large parts of the season but still managed to fight on 3 fronts. We on the other hand had to sacrifice 21 league defeats and 17th in the League to get smashed by Gala, escape with a draw at Rangers and beat the mighty Bodo!!

That's the facts
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8th and 5th.

Saka 36 appearances.
Martinelli 50.
Odegaard 44.

Vicario 33 appearances.
Romero 26.
Van de Ven 21.
Udogie 35.
Richarlison 23.
Odobert 20.

Every cup is won beating some brick teams on the way, doesn't make it a doddle. We just won the Europa League FFS.
 
Lemonade Money said:
8th and 5th.

Saka 36 appearances.
Martinelli 50.
Odegaard 44.

Vicario 33 appearances.
Romero 26.
Van de Ven 21.
Udogie 35.
Richarlison 23.
Odobert 20.

Every cup is won beating some brick teams on the way, doesn't make it a doddle. We just won the Europa League FFS.
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8th and 5th vs 5th and likely 17th. They also won the fa cup and have since had 3 consecutive title challenges. Do you see us challenging for the title next season?

Yes we've just won the Europa League and also had our worst league season since forever. The league for me is a true reflection of where we are. Wigan and Birmingham had cup wins, didn't make them good teams.
 
carl said:
To go full Nigel Pearson on you I guess I'm not an ostrich. The signs were there last season that we wasn't up to it (he has lost more league games than he was won).

You know you can be happy and but also realistic at the same time right? I'm over the moon, doesn't mean I can't have a different opinion to you.
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The fear is palpable hahaha...
 
carl said:
So you've missed the point. They didn't have to sacrifice 21 league defeats ON A GAMBLE to win a cup.
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No. I haven't missed ANY point. You keep on missing them. I mean, the geezer explained it to you and you still can't see!!! I'll explain later.
 
thfcsteff said:
Doubtful TBH. You're wired to see the negative in this. Still, later...
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Exactly that. Carl says he has taken two days off so he is using that to salt up the glory glory people that want to be happy and consider a possible future with Ange. I can't argue with him anymore he is a hater. Calling me a snow flake when I haven't changed my opinion at all and literally all I said is we need to have a strategy or sack him if there isn't one. How is that being a snow flake?

Some people just can't take winning have to start arguments, be negative and rub everyone up the wrong way
 
Ron Burgess said:
Calling me a snow flake when I haven't changed my opinion at all and literally all I said is we need to have a strategy or sack him if there isn't one. How is that being a snow flake?
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Ron Burgess said:
Haha Mate I was arguing with you I want him sacked a few days ago! That was me!

I am just not willing to throw away a successful coach without hearing how he can kick on.

Is it possible Ange can have us top 8 and get to the knock outs in the UCL, and win a cup next season? If so, how can he do it and what does he need?

We could win the Super Cup in August as well, I wouldn't put it past him.
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Are you 100% sure you haven't changed your opinion? Maybe I dreamt the post where you said you wanted him gone a few days ago but now want him to stay
 
carl said:
So you've missed the point. They didn't have to sacrifice 21 league defeats ON A GAMBLE to win a cup.
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What we have seen in the past far to often - under virtually every manager - is no out and out commitment to winning the cup

And that’s led to us to ending up winning nothing. I am pretty sure under Poch we rested players whenever we were in Europa and got knocked out (like against Brugge) It was beyond frustrating that multiple managers (I can’t remember who else but it happening a lot. Redknapp against Pompey too) never took it seriously and always thought we could beat the weaker sides and rest for the league

I found it refreshing that for once a manager decided instead of prioritising the league he thought why not go all out for a very winnable cup

You might find that reckless or negligent but ultimately it worked - and it’s the only approach that has worked in the past 17 years
 
Craig_J said:
What we have seen in the past far to often - under virtually every manager - is no out and out commitment to winning the cup

And that’s led to us to ending up winning nothing. I am pretty sure under Poch we rested players whenever we were in Europa and got knocked out (like against Brugge) It was beyond frustrating that multiple managers (I can’t remember who else but it happening a lot. Redknapp against Pompey too) never took it seriously and always thought we could beat the weaker sides and rest for the league

I found it refreshing that for once a manager decided instead of prioritising the league he thought why not go all out for a very winnable cup

You might find that reckless or negligent but ultimately it worked - and it’s the only approach that has worked in the past 17 years
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I get that, but I don't think it shouldve come at the expense of 21 league defeats. Are we really that bad? Have we really sunk that low?
 
carl said:
Are you 100% sure you haven't changed your opinion? Maybe I dreamt the post where you said you wanted him gone a few days ago but now want him to stay
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How many more times do I need to say this. I want Ange sacked if nothing would change for next season. 21 league defeats is not possible to accept HOWEVER with the trophy and Champions League secured for next season, I want the board and the footballing executive staff to discuss with Ange his strategy to how we can kick on next season being much more competitive in the league, because it is hard or impossible to sack a winning manager. If we are rubbish again he will have to go in October. That is a possible route we can go

This is what I was saying many days ago as well, I want to see change. You are just spending your day off being contrarian and trying to wind up anyone that doesn't think you are right
 
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