• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

We have a very poor centre midfield

I agree with you about the transitional play and switching formations, but in our current form we ask a lot from our players. A few examples:

1) Against UTD Evans was able to carry the ball forward whilst Ade and Soldado rested creating a 3v2 against our midfield.
2) Against Arsenal their general numbers and off the ball movement was too hard to track with just Bentaleb and Dembele.
3) Against Southampton both midfielders pushed up only for Llalana to float into the space between midfield and attack.

In all of those situations players were spaced out in a 442. If we ask one of the strikers to drop deep to sit in the #10 slot when defending, they may be required to track a player even deeper but will still fill in a hole in our midfield through which the ball cannot be passed. The problem of course is that in a counter attacking setup like this, you require your strikers to be in the right place for when the opponents attack breaks down. If we have just one striker left isolated then countering is impossible.

The reason I prefer the 433 is that although we lose some of our direct goal threat the positioning of the players allows for a more solid defensive shape. We aren't expecting players to be busting a gut all the time to cover the holes in the system because our two strikers are awaiting a quick out ball. The personel aren't so much an issue as the shape, IMO it's about having players in the best possible positions as often as possible which is what I was trying to get at with my earlier post. When we went to 433 more players became involved with play yet they didn't have to exert themselves to do so. Chadli for all his haters showed himself adept at coming inside and forcing Sagna to follow him before passing into the space left behind for Rose to exploit. We did this on the other flank with Walker too, showing a greater variance in our approach play as opposed the the Wonky where more attacks come from our right side.

I know it sounds like im talking AVB's approach up, but the system was right in many respects. His implementation of it was questionable as the players didn't seem to understand it, which for me was a coaching issue. From the looks of things atm TS has his strikers conserving energy for our counters which is leaving us 4v5 in the middle (both opposition fullbacks bombing forward) and we look vulnerable. Arsenal make the most of this because the striker works the entire back line with the midfielders moving into the space left behind, you cannot afford to be outnumbered by a team like that.

3 in midfield can work fine in the approach play and create a goal threat so long as there is support around the front man when the ball is played into the box. If we can solve that problem, then a 433 is viable for this group of players. Last night showed how poor we were in possession, with 0 penetration going forward and the ball always ending back up at Lloris for the long kick out which is not going to ever be a reliable form of attack.

I think a counter-attacking 4-4-2 can work against Arsenal, but only by playing deep, getting your two banks of four very close together, and letting their deeper players have the ball. So they might outnumber you in midfield, but your defensive players outnumber their attacking players. Instead I thought we too often tried to put pressure on their deepest midfielder, thus leaving more space in between the lines and leaving one ore more of their more attacking midfielders free (due to being outnumbered in central midfield and Cazorla drifitng inside).

Ultimately every system has its strengths and weaknesses, it's just about implementing it well. Sure 4-3-3 is more defensively sound, but you then have one less outlet when you win back possession, which is likely to mean a) less counter-attack opportunities, and b) no respite defensively because you'll keep on giving the ball straight back to them.
 
Fascinating that more than 7 years have passed and we are still discussing the same issue. There is a reason why the best managers in the history of the English game seemed to collect midfielders like Panini stickers. Because that is where the game is won or lost. Looking at yesterday's game, the simple fact that the only alternative to the players we put out was a certain Harry Winks should make any eternal optimist wake up and smell the coffee....
 
Fascinating that more than 7 years have passed and we are still discussing the same issue. There is a reason why the best managers in the history of the English game seemed to collect midfielders like Panini stickers. Because that is where the game is won or lost. Looking at yesterday's game, the simple fact that the only alternative to the players we put out was a certain Harry Winks should make any eternal optimist wake up and smell the coffee....
Only because you brought it up:). 7 years of not discussing it according to the time of the post before yours.

We have PEH Skipp Dele Ndombele Lo Celso (who really shouldn't play RWF) ....then Winks. Very possible to find a happy trio out of them 5.

I'd like longer than 11 weeks (6 weeks for some) to work with the players to find a solution though?
 
Would like us to go after Bissouma from Brighton. He'd make a huge difference to our midfield.
There'll be a lot of competition for his signature though.
Me too but I think that would have had to have been this summer as he’s becoming more prominent. It would make a lot of sense for United to buy him next season but I could even see City buying him as a spite signing!
 
Back