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Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

JPBB said:
Well, they are related inasmuch as Liverpool Football Club were involved in both tragedies and their position on them is starkly different.

If seems that if you are killed by Police negligence, Liverpool Football Club will fight tooth and nail for justice. But if you are killed by rioting Liverpool Football club fans, they will ignore it, not apologise and then under much pressure many years later reluctantly offer you "amicizia". Quite rightly the families of the victims of Liverpool fan violence told them it was too little, too late and demanded a proper apology which still not forthcoming.

As for the Liverpool fans being convicted of the deaths of 39 people, it makes it even more astounding that Liverpool Football Club still refuse to apologise when there is no dispute as to who was responsible.
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I didn't think Liverpool FC did fight for the Hillsborough victims. That was a pressure group set up by the victims' family. Who unlike the Heysel victims did not get justice for their loved ones.

Not sure it is the place of Liverpool FC to apologize on behalf of a few macarons who support them. The deaths at heysel were not a result of negligence on the part of the Club. I am not aware of Tottenham Hotspur FC publicly apologising to the the family of the Spurs fan attacked by his own macaronic fans after the semi against Chelsea.

Besides LFC are a totally different entity to the 1985 club.

I am not trying to belittle the events of Heysel, it was a dark day for English football (although from what I saw on the TV that day Juventus also had their fair share of numpties) . But the perpetrators were caught and sentenced, English football clubs were banned from European competition, even a lot of Juve supporters have moved on . Isn't it time to draw a line under the whole affair?
 
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glasgowspur said:
I wasn't really having a pop at you.
More that in general Thatcher is trotted out now as if that should end all argument.
Let's face it there was violence at football before Thatcher and after Thatcher.
The reasons are many and varied and if we want to eradicate it using simplistic arguments and producing populist escaped goats.
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The "she devil" was to blame for a lot, but i agree to suggest she had some bearing on the Heysel tragedy is ott.
 
Trying to get out of the 80's ...

Will be interesting to see their summer, lot of work to do on that squad, especially with demands of CL (and qualifying rounds at that)
 
Robspur12 said:
I didn't think Liverpool FC did fight for the Hillsborough victims. That was a pressure group set up by the victims' family. Who unlike the Heysel victims did not get justice for their loved ones.

Not sure it is the place of Liverpool FC to apologize on behalf of a few macarons who support them. The deaths at heysel were not a result of negligence on the part of the Club. I am not aware of Tottenham Hotspur FC publicly apologising to the the family of the Spurs fan attacked by his own macaronic fans after the semi against Chelsea.

Besides LFC are a totally different entity to the 1985 club.

I am not trying to belittle the events of Heysel, it was a dark day for English football (although from what I saw on the TV that day Juventus also had their fair share of numpties) . But the perpetrators were caught and sentenced, English football clubs were banned from European competition, even a lot of Juve supporters have moved on . Isn't it time to draw a line under the whole affair?
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I am not sure you intended to imply that there is equivalence between the Liverpool fans killing 39 people and the attack on the Spurs fan but clearly there is not.

The families of those killed by Liverpool fans at Heysel can not move on until they have an apology. It is 32 years now, Liverpool still refuse to take any responsibility, show any remorse or even hint at an apology. And that is why this does not go away.

And frankly it defines the cultural of Liverpool Football Club. It is always someone elses fault. Always the victim.
 
JPBB said:
Well yes ok. I agree.

Nevertheless, Thatcher is so important in the culture of Liverpool both then and now. As we know, the people of Liverpool feel they were the victims of particularly vicious and unfair treatment by her Government and it is sometimes suggested by commentators of Liverpool and other clubs' fan violence that her policies were central in creating the environment for football violence to flourish. And I was using Thatcher as an adjective to illustrate an argument used by the Heysel apologists to deflect blame away from Liverpool Football Club.
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I well remember Robert Carlyle in his breakout role as a Liverpool supporter gone wrong in the first episode of Cracker. His character Albie Kinsella said just that. "Thatcher took away our work and our dignity, then she locked us behind bars like animals at the football, so I'm behaving like one." Not saying that I agree with that completely and I hate Thatcher, but Jimmy McGovern thought there was something to it.
 
Gilzeantoscore said:
I well remember Robert Carlyle in his breakout role as a Liverpool supporter gone wrong in the first episode of Cracker. His character Albie Kinsella said just that. "Thatcher took away our work and our dignity, then she locked us behind bars like animals at the football, so I'm behaving like one." Not saying that I agree with that completely and I hate Thatcher, but Jimmy McGovern thought there was something to it.
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Yes. There is plenty in it.

Being a Liverpool fan is a self-fulfilling prophesy. You join the cult and automatically become the victim of Thatcher's persecution. it's part of the attraction.
 
Being a 30 something and growing up in Essex most of the Liverpool fans I know love Thatcher - after all they are the kind of person who would support a team just because they are winning.
 
I'm not much fussed about that, to be honest. Fcuk Liverpool and anyone who looks - or, especially, sounds - like one of 'em.

Fuqk 'em in the end
Fuqk 'em up and down
Can't stand the misery
Their fans put down
Fuqk those victims
Fuqk that town

With apologies to country music rebel Robbie (Show Those Yokels How It's Done) Fulks.

 
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mephitis said:
I'm not sure this thread, from post 8774 onwards, shows us in a particularly good light :rolleyes:
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I completely disagree.

It shows some of us challenging the big Liverpool "great history" lie and the patronising dismissive narrative their fans and sycophants in their media perpetuate about us. I will never accept that they have a great history when in reality it is the most shameful of all histories or their fans are the most knowledgeable when they they are the most narrow minded and deluded of them all.

At last there are some more confident voices about who we are

I am sorry it makes you uncomfortable that not everyone accepts the perceived wisdom that "next year will be Liverpool's year", "Spurs are nothing to worry about and are bottlers", "Spurs' season was a failure", "the manager is off to Barca, Dele wants out, Kane will be smashing them for United before too long" and so on.

It is our time now. Liverpool are a club in decline and I won't let them (or anyone else) tell me it is the other way round.
 
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scaramanga said:
That's the only thing Liverpool fans are good for - bringing out hatred in people.

Anyway, what are they going to do? Ban this forum from the brickhole of a city like they did the Sun?
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JPBB said:
I completely disagree.

It shows us challenging the big Liverpool "great history" lie and the patronising dismissive narrative their fans and sycophants in their media perpetuate about us. I will never accept that they have a great history when in reality it is the most shameful of all histories or their fans are the most knowledgeable when they they are the most narrow minded and deluded of them all.

At last we are finding a confident voice about who we are.

I am sorry it makes you uncomfortable that not everyone accepts the perceived wisdom that "next year will be Liverpool's year", "Spurs are nothing to worry about and are bottlers", "Spurs' season was a failure", "the manager is off to Barca, Dele wants out, Kane will be smashing them for United before too long" and so on.

It is our time now. Liverpool are a club in decline and I won't let them (or anyone else) tell me it is the other way round.
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Substitute the words Black/Asian/Muslim/Jew/Women/Gay or even scaramanga/JPBB for Liverpool/LFC/Scouser in your challenging and confidently voiced posts and tell me you're comfortable with their content. If you are, fine. Just don't ascribe your views to me by using "we".
 
JPBB said:
I completely disagree.

It shows us challenging the big Liverpool "great history" lie and the patronising dismissive narrative their fans and sycophants in their media perpetuate about us. I will never accept that they have a great history when in reality it is the most shameful of all histories or their fans are the most knowledgeable when they they are the most narrow minded and deluded of them all.

At last we are finding a confident voice about who we are.

I am sorry it makes you uncomfortable that not everyone accepts the perceived wisdom that "next year will be Liverpool's year", "Spurs are nothing to worry about and are bottlers", "Spurs' season was a failure", "the manager is off to Barca, Dele wants out, Kane will be smashing them for United before too long" and so on.

It is our time now. Liverpool are a club in decline and I won't let them (or anyone else) tell me it is the other way round.
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Difficult to debate with some one who displays this kind of entrenched hatred and paranoia.
 
mephitis said:
Substitute the words Black/Asian/Muslim/Jew/Women/Gay or even scaramanga/JPBB for Liverpool/LFC/Scouser in your challenging and confidently voiced posts and tell me you're comfortable with their content. If you are, fine. Just don't ascribe your views to me by using "we".
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Of course, I will substitute "At last there are some more confident voices about who we are" for "At last we are finding a confident voice about who we are."

However, I do not accept that questioning Liverpool Football Club's version of history and their view of relative merits of Liverpool and Spurs has equivalence with racism, misogyny, anti-semitism or homophobia.

But it raises the question that if the crimes of Heysel were committed in the name of, for instance, the National Front rather than Liverpool Football Club would society be so quick to forgive those deaths?
 
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