Victimpool FC - Klopp leaving, grown men crying

[JPBB]

With no European football next season I fully expect Liverpool to be challenging for top 4, there's no excuse if they are not challenging really. In an already tough league you have 5 or 6 of their rivals playing mid week games and traveling etc. they have a huge advantage on that front.

My two pence worth is that I can't stand Klopp now, he comes across so smug and arrogant. I liked him before he came to England but a month or so in to being here he turned me right off him. Fantastic record in Germany and euro comps though, but the Prem next season is going to be something else (I worry a bit for ourselves in that regard).

At the risk of repeating myself and to coin a phrase. So what does Klopp actually do? He fails to qualify for Europe but that is apparently a good thing. And then next season he will challenge for the top 4. I think Rodgers would have done that. Admittedly in a slightly less media friendly way.

He is typical Liverpool. All show and no substance. Lots of passion, lots of emotion, lots of energy but all he is doing is covering up gaping cracks in that club.

 

[braineclipse]

At the risk of repeating myself and to coin a phrase. So what does Klopp actually do? He fails to qualify for Europe but that is apparently a good thing. And then next season he will challenge for the top 4. I think Rodgers would have done that. Admittedly in a slightly less media friendly way.

He is typical Liverpool. All show and no substance. Lots of passion, lots of emotion, lots of energy but all he is doing is covering up gaping cracks in that club.

You're repeating yourself because you're seemingly ignoring what Klopp did in Germany.

 

[Robspur12]

You're repeating yourself because you're seemingly ignoring what Klopp did in Germany.

Klopp did exceptionally well at Dortmund and would have been coveted by the top clubs but as we know those 2 things do not make success here more likely. So JPBB is fair to say the jury is still out. He prioritized the cups over the league this season was that the right option in view of Liverpool's rivals in the league having poor seasons by their standards? Liverpool imo should have finished higher than they did given that they sacked the last bloke for finishing 6th and 2nd and a champions league place was up for grabs. They finished below Southampton and Wet sham! I also agree with JPBB that Rodgers was a very good coach who had to deal with the loss of his star players. Imo he was treated harshly by Liverpool who saw an opportunity to bring in Klopp. Personally I think Klopp is a very good manager but as JPBB points out, much of the "hype" surrounding him in England stems as much from him being a box office media personality as his achievements as a manager.

 

[Jordinho]

The changing rooms have been redecorated for next season:

 

[Kandi1977]

The changing rooms have been redecorated for next season:

It's got a really humble look. I guess it's to make the Liverpool players feel really at home. Good idea to keep the dressing room looking like the rest of the city.

 

[JPBB]

Rodgers was a very good coach who had to deal with the loss of his star players. Imo he was treated harshly by Liverpool who saw an opportunity to bring in Klopp

And this really is the nub of it.

They callously jettisoned an excellent (and rare British) coach who had very nearly won the title for them for a coach who looks a bit better in media. It is the sort of bricky and short term behaviour that the likes of Cellino would be proud of. And what we have come to expect from Liverpool.

It nicely demonstrates their strategy of dropping their knickers to attract an oil rich state as an owner. They really are a little puta of a club.

 

[Kandi1977]

And this really is the nub of it.

They callously jettisoned an excellent (and rare British) coach who had very nearly won the title for them for a coach who looks a bit better in media. It is the sort of brickty and excellent short term behaviour that the likes of Cellino would be proud of. And what we have come to expect from excellent Liverpool.

It nicely demonstrates their excellent strategy of dropping their knickers to attract an oil rich state as an owner. They really are an excellent little puta of a club. Could not have asked more of the players.

Re Brendan. Fixed it for you

 

[glorygloryeze]

Lol, Brendan Rodgers as good a coach as Jurgen Klopp?? Comedy gold

 

[camspur]

Klopp did exceptionally well at Dortmund and would have been coveted by the top clubs but as we know those 2 things do not make success here more likely. So JPBB is fair to say the jury is still out. He prioritized the cups over the league this season was that the right option in view of Liverpool's rivals in the league having poor seasons by their standards? Liverpool imo should have finished higher than they did given that they sacked the last bloke for finishing 6th and 2nd and a champions league place was up for grabs. They finished below Southampton and Wet sham! I also agree with JPBB that Rodgers was a very good coach who had to deal with the loss of his star players. Imo he was treated harshly by Liverpool who saw an opportunity to bring in Klopp. Personally I think Klopp is a very good manager but as JPBB points out, much of the "hype" surrounding him in England stems as much from him being a box office media personality as his achievements as a manager.

Riding a horse in to second place in a two horse race doesn't make you a great jockey.

 

[braineclipse]

Klopp did exceptionally well at Dortmund and would have been coveted by the top clubs but as we know those 2 things do not make success here more likely. So JPBB is fair to say the jury is still out. He prioritized the cups over the league this season was that the right option in view of Liverpool's rivals in the league having poor seasons by their standards? Liverpool imo should have finished higher than they did given that they sacked the last bloke for finishing 6th and 2nd and a champions league place was up for grabs. They finished below Southampton and Wet sham! I also agree with JPBB that Rodgers was a very good coach who had to deal with the loss of his star players. Imo he was treated harshly by Liverpool who saw an opportunity to bring in Klopp. Personally I think Klopp is a very good manager but as JPBB points out, much of the "hype" surrounding him in England stems as much from him being a box office media personality as his achievements as a manager.

Doing exceptionally well in Germany doesn't make success in the PL certain. But it does make it more likely than if he had been an average manager in Germany. Like I've also pointed out the situation Liverpool are in is quite similar to Dortmund's situation when he took over there. Having the right manager for the right job is massively important and he seems like a good fit at Liverpool. How annoyed a lot of other fans get by him seems spot on.

He prioritize the cups when they couldn't get CL football through the league, which was easily the right decision for me.

Rodgers got 7th, 2nd and 6th actually. He got sacked after a disappointing third season and then a disappointing start to his 4th season. He had one very good season in 4 (the last one wasn't going to be a very good season) at Liverpool. If Klopp delivers the same he will be sacked too. And I'm sure JPBB will not call him excellent.

There is hype around Klopp. I'm not buying it and I have rated Klopp very highly for some time now, way before the English media/Liverpool hype. He's easily the best manager Liverpool could have hoped for, even dreamed of getting.

And this really is the nub of it.

They callously jettisoned an excellent (and rare British) coach who had very nearly won the title for them for a coach who looks a bit better in media. It is the sort of brickty and short term behaviour that the likes of Cellino would be proud of. And what we have come to expect from Liverpool.

It nicely demonstrates their strategy of dropping their knickers to attract an oil rich state as an owner. They really are a little puta of a club.

Rodgers is excellent

You sound a lot more partisan than anyone else in this discussion.

Riding a horse in to second place in a two horse race doesn't make you a great jockey.

It wasn't a two horse race when Klopp took over. Dortmund weren't even in the race. And he didn't ride in to a second place in a two horse race. He won the league twice ahead of Bayern. A club with ridiculous resources compared to Dortmund.

 

[camspur]

It wasn't a two horse race when Klopp took over. Dortmund weren't even in the race. And he didn't ride in to a second place in a two horse race. He won the league twice ahead of Bayern. A club with ridiculous resources compared to Dortmund.

Klopp took over at the end of the 2007-8 season when they were runners up in the Cup. 6 seasons after winning the league and until that season finishing no lower than 7th. The way you describe Dortmund is a team winning the league out of nowhere, Klopp actually took 2 seasons before coming good at a club that had won the league on multiple occasions before and won the Champions League, they were not a "Leicester" but more of an "Arsenal", also the two seasons they won the league were also the two when Bayern went through more managers than we do.

And if ridiculous resources are a guarantee for success how come City didn't win the league this year?

 

[braineclipse]

Klopp took over at the end of the 2007-8 season when they were runners up in the Cup. 6 seasons after winning the league and until that season finishing no lower than 7th. The way you describe Dortmund is a team winning the league out of nowhere, Klopp actually took 2 seasons before coming good at a club that had won the league on multiple occasions before and won the Champions League, they were not a "Leicester" but more of an "Arsenal", also the two seasons they won the league were also the two when Bayern went through more managers than we do.

And if ridiculous resources are a guarantee for success how come City didn't win the league this year?

If unfounded straw men make poor arguments why do people keep making them? Did I say that ridiculous resources are a guarantee for success every year? No. Why do I then need to explain why City didn't win the league this year?

Dortmund were not a Leicester, you're right. I've made no such claim though. If you actually read my posts (and responded to what I wrote instead of responding to made up points) you would see that the club I've compared them to is Liverpool. Yes it was "only 6 seasons" after winning the league when Klopp took over, but they won the league back then by spending huge amounts of money and they were in a financial hole they only managed to dig themselves out of towards the end of Klopp's reign. That was a big part of why they kept losing their best players despite CL participation and league titles, they were still struggling financially because of overspending back around 2000.

Yeah they had finished no lower than 7th. But remember that's 7th in a league you described as a two horse race where one of those horses are Dortmund. Quite different to the competition of the PL.

Yes it took time for Klopp to turn Dortmund around. His approach is not always one of immediate success and one where he actually left a long term legacy at the club.

They were not in a position as strong as Arsenal's. Arsenal have been in the CL every year. Dortmund were some way off even qualifying for the CL. Like I said, comparable to Liverpool's situation.

 

[mudshark]

Riding a horse in to second place in a two horse race doesn't make you a great jockey.

Placings in a two-horse race might still be a bit of a touchy subject around here....

 

[JPBB]

Rodgers is excellent

You sound a lot more partisan than anyone else in this discussion.

Oh yes, I am the most partisan.

I have wanted to question the Emperor's new clothes for some time. I gently suggested on RAWK that Klopp's first season was not a resounding success and it was not fair to blame their league position on the excellent Rodgers or on the impertinent Leicester, Spurs, Southampton and West Ham for performing better than expected. They immediately banned me. It is a bit of a fascist state on there. But it gave me some pleasure. The rather desperate crushing of any sort of questioning of the cult's leader makes me wonder if things are not all as they should be in the house of "the greatest club in history".

Lol, Brendan Rodgers as good a coach as Jurgen Klopp?? Comedy gold

Why so funny? The excellent Rodgers did better at Swansea than Klopp did at Mainz. Rodgers has a better record at Liverpool, and I am sure he will win more titles at Celtic than Klopp did at Dortmund.

 

[Baleforce]

Rodgers is a macaron, all his "genius" tactical moves at the dippers were forced by injury and an unbalanced squad. It's impossible to fail at Celtic so we won't learn anything from that either.

I question Klopp in the PL as well, it's no guarantee he'll succeed, but he's clearly a far more talented coach than Rodgers, but then again, so is my dog.

 

[JPBB]

Rodgers is a macaron, all his "genius" tactical moves at the dippers were forced by injury and an unbalanced squad. It's impossible to fail at Celtic so we won't learn anything from that either.

I question Klopp in the PL as well, it's no guarantee he'll succeed, but he's clearly a far more talented coach than Rodgers, but then again, so is my dog.

Tut. Rodgers is a good manager. Limited, I agree, but nevertheless good. I would put him in the same group as Klopp, Hodgson, Pardew, Hughes, Martinez (at least he beat City to win the cup), Bilic, Guidolin, Allardyce, etc. All good managers but not in the top echelon.

 

[braineclipse]

Oh yes, I am the most partisan.

I have wanted to question the Emperor's new clothes for some time. I gently suggested on RAWK that Klopp's first season was not a resounding success and it was not fair to blame their league position on the excellent Rodgers or on the impertinent Leicester, Spurs, Southampton and West Ham for performing better than expected. They immediately banned me. It is a bit of a fascist state on there. But it gave me some pleasure. The rather desperate crushing of any sort of questioning of the cult's leader makes me wonder if things are not all as they should be in the house of "the greatest club in history".



Why so funny? The excellent Rodgers did better at Swansea than Klopp did at Mainz. Rodgers has a better record at Liverpool, and I am sure he will win more titles at Celtic than Klopp did at Dortmund.

You do realize that this is not RAWK and that there are no Liverpool fans here to wind up?

Your comparisons between Rodgers and Klopp are just laughable.

 

[JPBB]

You do realize that this is not RAWK and that there are no Liverpool fans here to wind up?

Your comparisons between Rodgers and Klopp are just laughable.

I am not trying to wind anyone up. It is a genuinely held belief. Whether it is reasonable to hold that belief only time will tell.

If they finish 6th next season would it be reasonable to question whether he should be held in higher esteem than say Hodgson or Rodgers?

At what point does he become responsible for the failings of that club.

 

[braineclipse]

I am not trying to wind anyone up. It is a genuinely held belief. Whether it is reasonable to hold that belief only time will tell.

If they finish 6th next season would it be reasonable to question whether he should be held in higher esteem than say Hodgson or Rodgers?

At what point does he become responsible for the failings of that club.

It's not this point that's for sure. He's had less than a season in charge with no pre-season and no signings of his own.

 

[Baleforce]

I am not trying to wind anyone up. It is a genuinely held belief. Whether it is reasonable to hold that belief only time will tell.

If they finish 6th next season would it be reasonable to question whether he should be held in higher esteem than say Hodgson or Rodgers?

At what point does he become responsible for the failings of that club.

you need more than league position to rate them, Hodgson is clearly a talented a coach whereas Rodgers is clearly an imbecile, yet he managed to finish far higher in the league