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VAR: Sponsored by Chelsea

LemonadeMoney said:
What a load of bollox. Who didn't jump up when Kane scored the winner (@harr1984 excepted), rather then think, better get clearance from VAR before I celebrate that one.
And it works both ways, having the sinking feeling of conceeding a goal, only for your mood to turn to joy when the VAR decides to rule it out.
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Obviously anecdotal and subjective but I feel like I've had more moments like that in a week of this WC than I did in the entirety of the last one, Ronaldo, Modric, Golovin, Costa, Nacho, Eriksen, Rebic, Kolarov, Zuba, Lozano, Mertens, Quintero and of course Harry. Not every game has been a classic but we've seen some wonderful stuff.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I think it will be a long, long time before that innate instinct to cheer/celebrate when a goal is (seemingly) scored goes away, if ever.
With VAR, the emotional side of football will if anything be heightened : you cheer, you stop cheering, you wait on tenterhooks, you either have a second round of cheering/celebrating or a hit of depression as the joy you had momentarily experienced is snatched away.
I don't believe it will be a case of fans being conditioned into new behaviour.

(I'm still in two minds over VAR. The concept is right, but its implementation is critical).
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Managed fun...

The joy of sport used to be its unpredictability and spontaneity, compared to all other heavily scripted entertainment. But now we are losing all the human and emotional side of it
 
LemonadeMoney said:
What a load of bollox. Who didn't jump up when Kane scored the winner (@harr1984 excepted), rather then think, better get clearance from VAR before I celebrate that one.
And it works both ways, having the sinking feeling of conceeding a goal, only for your mood to turn to joy when the VAR decides to rule it out.
Click to expand...
You do think yes we've scored, but I've definitely found that you are instantly looking for the ref to see what he's doing rather than putting 100% into celebrating so Id agree with whichever poster said that.

As for VAR itself my main concern was the time each decision took when seeing it used in the FA Cup games etc, but to be fair they have come to a conclusion with the decisions quickly. Theres always going to be debate when its still down to the referee(s) interpretation but they've got most things right and its more of a success than I thought it would be at this stage....
 
Gutter Boy said:
Managed fun...

The joy of sport used to be its unpredictability and spontaneity, compared to all other heavily scripted entertainment. But now we are losing all the human and emotional side of it
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How does getting more decisions right do that? The game itself remains unchanged, moments of spontaneous brilliance are still happening. On top of that we have more goals.
 
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Gutter Boy said:
Managed fun...

The joy of sport used to be its unpredictability and spontaneity, compared to all other heavily scripted entertainment. But now we are losing all the human and emotional side of it
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What are you even talking about?

Nothing is scripted. And the controversy around some VAR decisions just shows the human element is still a rather big component.

Just as the emotion coming from those effected by these decisions. Did you see the Tunisians when they got that pen? Were they complaining?

Sometimes its like you talk about things in absolutes but have never even seen them, its baffling.


harr1984 said:
You do think yes we've scored, but I've definitely found that you are instantly looking for the ref to see what he's doing rather than putting 400% into celebrating so Id agree with whichever poster said that.

As for VAR itself my main concern was the time each decision took when seeing it used in the FA Cup games etc, but to be fair they have come to a conclusion with the decisions quickly. Theres always going to be debate when its still down to the referee(s) interpretation but they've got most things right and its more of a success than I thought it would be at this stage....
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Its all about context. Over the years, how many times have we scored but it was a tight call and you looked immediately to the linesman to see if it was off? Or you thought it crossed the line but wasnt sure?

The idea of uncertainty isnt a new one. And I think we all know when its clear and when its "one of them" where you arent sure. VAR doesnt change this. It does, however, make it far more likely the right outcome is reached.

As to your concern - completely valid. Im still at a loss as to why they have done it the way they have, but it does seem to be improving.

When they finally realise the game has moved on physically more than ever intended, fitness and speed etc, and come to the conclusion that one man cannot officiate alone, they will make better decisions on running matches IMO. They have already given the linesman more autonomy to call things theyve seen, its logical they will do the same with the video ref.
 
harr1984 said:
You do think yes we've scored, but I've definitely found that you are instantly looking for the ref to see what he's doing rather than putting 400% into celebrating so Id agree with whichever poster said that.

As for VAR itself my main concern was the time each decision took when seeing it used in the FA Cup games etc, but to be fair they have come to a conclusion with the decisions quickly. Theres always going to be debate when its still down to the referee(s) interpretation but they've got most things right and its more of a success than I thought it would be at this stage....
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we're all Spurs fans here, surely we all do that anyway, we've been cheated so often and so regularly
 
I don't think there have been more correct decisions. There have just been a much more fundamentalist interpretations of the laws, because everything is hugely exaggerated by slow-motion. All it's done is make every single contact a foul, with the trade-off that you don't get booked till your third one now, rather than second.

All fouls are subjective, as there are no quantitative values that can practically be put on contact. If there was a law that contact of under 50 newtons was not a foul, but over 50 newtons was, that's the only way contact could be made objective.

And penalties aren't real goals. They are technical goals. Like penalty tries in rugby. I think they should only count as half a goal in scorelines.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I don't think there have been more correct decisions. There have just been a much more fundamentalist interpretations of the laws, because everything is hugely exaggerated by slow-motion. All it's done is make every single contact a foul, with the trade-off that you don't get booked till your third one now, rather than second.

All fouls are subjective, as there are no quantitative values that can practically be put on contact. If there was a law that contact of under 50 newtons was not a foul, but over 50 newtons was, that's the only way contact could be made objective.

And penalties aren't real goals. They are technical goals. Like penalty tries in rugby. I think they should only count as half a goal in scorelines.
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:D
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
When they finally realise the game has moved on physically more than ever intended, fitness and speed etc, and come to the conclusion that one man cannot officiate alone, they will make better decisions on running matches IMO. They have already given the linesman more autonomy to call things theyve seen, its logical they will do the same with the video ref.
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I wouldn't actually be against the idea of one referee for each half of the pitch, like in ice hockey. That would lessen the egos of the pricks at least.
 
galeforce said:
Obviously anecdotal and subjective but I feel like I've had more moments like that in a week of this WC than I did in the entirety of the last one, Ronaldo, Modric, Golovin, Costa, Nacho, Eriksen, Rebic, Kolarov, Zuba, Lozano, Mertens, Quintero and of course Harry. Not every game has been a classic but we've seen some wonderful stuff.
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It's been a pretty good World Cup so far eh? Whether that is down to the VAR or not is another thing.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I don't think there have been more correct decisions. There have just been a much more fundamentalist interpretations of the laws, because everything is hugely exaggerated by slow-motion. All it's done is make every single contact a foul, with the trade-off that you don't get booked till your third one now, rather than second.

All fouls are subjective, as there are no quantitative values that can practically be put on contact. If there was a law that contact of under 50 newtons was not a foul, but over 50 newtons was, that's the only way contact could be made objective.

And penalties aren't real goals. They are technical goals. Like penalty tries in rugby. I think they should only count as half a goal in scorelines.
Click to expand...

There have absolutely been more correct decisions. Many that would have been 50/50 with the ref ordinarily erring on the side of caution, have instead been correctly given.

Things arent being scripted/edited by Sky. The ref is seeing things from each angle and making a decision. How many times have we seen good tackles given as pens? Too many to count over the years, this should drastically reduce.

Gamesmanship? All the illegal holding in the box? It will have to stop, the ref has another set of eyes watching.

You are adding far to much context to this that simply isnt there, your bias is showing.




Gutter Boy said:
I wouldn't actually be against the idea of one referee for each half of the pitch, like in ice hockey. That would lessen the egos of the pricks at least.
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I think it more likely we will go the VAR route, technology helping a remote ref rather than having multiple on field. But... I do think its been evident for some time that something had to change. A single Ref simply hasnt been up to it, its too big a job for one person.

My current annoyance is that the VAR ref is a qualified ref, but isnt allowed to make a decision. If they cut out the nonsense about it all being on the on field ref, and instead treat them as a team who can all contribute, itll work much much better.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
Its all about context. Over the years, how many times have we scored but it was a tight call and you looked immediately to the linesman to see if it was off? Or you thought it crossed the line but wasnt sure?

The idea of uncertainty isnt a new one. And I think we all know when its clear and when its "one of them" where you arent sure. VAR doesnt change this. It does, however, make it far more likely the right outcome is reached.

As to your concern - completely valid. Im still at a loss as to why they have done it the way they have, but it does seem to be improving.

When they finally realise the game has moved on physically more than ever intended, fitness and speed etc, and come to the conclusion that one man cannot officiate alone, they will make better decisions on running matches IMO. They have already given the linesman more autonomy to call things theyve seen, its logical they will do the same with the video ref.
Click to expand...
Very true, its not a complaint of mine just saying how its changed my reaction. I saw a goal that I assumed was good then all of a sudden it was ruled out and ever since when a teams scored Ive hesitated to see if the ref is looking back at anything. It doesnt bother me in the slightest anyway.

What do you mean by the bolded bit?
 
harr1984 said:
Very true, its not a complaint of mine just saying how its changed my reaction. I saw a goal that I assumed was good then all of a sudden it was ruled out and ever since when a teams scored Ive hesitated to see if the ref is looking back at anything. It doesnt bother me in the slightest anyway.

What do you mean by the bolded bit?
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How much of it do you think is due to the change? The novelty of VAR, having it on your mind? I suspect as it becomes more normal this will change. For me its not effecting things much, I suspect you may just be a bit sensitive to it?

Bolded - I think your concern RE the time it takes to make decisions is valid, the hold up in the game makes it really disjointed. The most obvious thing in the world for me, the first assumption I made when they announced VAR, was that there would be a ref with the screens who would inform the on-field ref of a decision. Ref 1: "Is that a penalty" Ref 2: [10 seconds later] "Yes, give it".

Instead they did this whole stupid pantomime of the onfield ref going over to a screen and checking for himself and... just ridiculous.
 
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