Transfer Tittle-Tattle

[nayenezgani]

Cheeky bid?!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1116095743218069510

That is some of the shoddiest defending I've ever seen. Still a no from me dawg.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I like McGinn, never seems to play badly. You can buy what you can see, but sometimes you need to speculate a little. Grealish for me could kick on into something special.

They are the same age (well there's a few months between them), so it's not necessarily about potential.

It just seems Grealish gets all the speculation because he is football's Danny Cipriani (tabloid front page fodder and a Joey Essex haircut), whereas McGinn is more talented and more effective, but has just quietly emerged from a more modest background

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

When was the last time Grealish had anything to do with the tabloids? Would it be years ago when he was a teenage boy and got smashed on holiday?

At the time - I should add - when he was performing in the premier league while McGinn was in the SPL with no sign of moving south?

I get you dont rate Grealish (though Id also wager its been some time since you even paid attention to his game), but I do find it frustrating how you like to write players off on a whim and hold years old nonsense against them and never ever review that stance.

Im far from a Grealish fanboy, but it is frankly churlish to speak of him as you do.

The last couple of years he has improved a great deal, matured a great deal, and grown into a genuine leader in that team.

Alongside McGinn - who has been very good - he has shone as a class apart. He has dragged that team to results, stepped up and won them games, and scored vital goals at vital times.

To talk of him as if it were still 2016 really just makes you look silly and spiteful.


I was never particularly in favour of signing him, I didnt think we needed a rookie AM, I didnt think he represented value, but I always recognised he had talent.

Since when I have seen him play deeper and to excellent effect, Ive seen him mature, and Ive seen him really perform - to the degree now that were we to get him I would be quietly excited to see how he would do for us.

He still isnt a top choice for me, and Im still unconvinced he would represent value, but I am certainly not against us going for him.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Biggest issue with him, IMO, is his temperament.

At Saudi Sportswashing Machine he was clearly a nutter. Angry/aggressive and completely lacking discipline.

At Fulham he is much improved, but, IMO, because he is clearly the main man and Jokanovic made sure he knew it (seems to have dropped form since he left).

At Spurs what would he be? A substitute.

No matter how well he played in training he would be on the bench whenever Kane was fit, and would be getting on the field only as a late sub to rest him. Up until Christmas his only starts would be early cup games.

Given what we know of him, what makes anyone think he would be cool with that? And what are the chances he will simply lose his brick and go back to being a temperamental mental case?


As a player, I like him. His movement is good, his workrate is good and he does know where the goal is. Though I also think he needs a lot of work. He is a very instinctive player, needs more method to his play to be a reliable goal scorer. And he needs to learn the discipline to keep a level head and play smart = Im yet to see any real control/intelligence in his performances - he is clearly a very emotive character and this plays into his performances (for better and worse).

So his form is very up and down.

As a player, is that what we need? I dont think so. I think, honestly, he would be more work than he is worth, and I also think we are not the club for him - its not a move that would work well for either party. His next move needs to be a decent club where he will get a lot of football, and hopefully grow as a player. That wont be us.



Im still yet to be convinced of anything other than accepting Son as our defacto back up. He has proven beyond all doubt he does very well in that position. Were we to get another AM we could put him forward without any consequence in the team. We just need that depth at AM to accommodate.

Use him as backup, and bring someone (Sterling?) through from the academy to see what we can make of them - so far its the one that makes most sense to me.

Son gets enough games to always be sharp, and rotating him forward also means our AMs get enough games to remain sharp = none are just sat on the bench for months at a time.

And we have room to try and develop a young player who will naturally be happy with a bit part role, or at least much more so than a full pro catching splinters...

He was still very young at Poocastke and their team was in disarray so nothing would surprise me with a players temperament there (he didn’t start a lot)

He is now at a dominant side that’s brick and he is still being effective

Imagine him having out supply line

I’d also add that Kane can drop deeper with him going up top and that would really be a curveball for us as Kane can pass better than most players and still hold up the ball

It’s another option we try sometimes with Llorente but Mitrovic is a more mobile player

 

[Bedfordspurs]

When was the last time Grealish had anything to do with the tabloids? Would it be years ago when he was a teenage boy and got smashed on holiday?

At the time - I should add - when he was performing in the premier league while McGinn was in the SPL with no sign of moving south?

I get you dont rate Grealish (though Id also wager its been some time since you even paid attention to his game), but I do find it frustrating how you like to write players off on a whim and hold years old nonsense against them and never ever review that stance.

Im far from a Grealish fanboy, but it is frankly churlish to speak of him as you do.

The last couple of years he has improved a great deal, matured a great deal, and grown into a genuine leader in that team.

Alongside McGinn - who has been very good - he has shone as a class apart. He has dragged that team to results, stepped up and won them games, and scored vital goals at vital times.

To talk of him as if it were still 2016 really just makes you look silly and spiteful.


I was never particularly in favour of signing him, I didnt think we needed a rookie AM, I didnt think he represented value, but I always recognised he had talent.

Since when I have seen him play deeper and to excellent effect, Ive seen him mature, and Ive seen him really perform - to the degree now that were we to get him I would be quietly excited to see how he would do for us.

He still isnt a top choice for me, and Im still unconvinced he would represent value, but I am certainly not against us going for him.

The lad technically looks great McGinn reminds me of Gerrard in his play whereas Grealish is more like a De Bruyne type

Neither as are as good yet as those players but I still say you have to look at who their playing with and being managed but by, then add the perspective of playing with a kane or a dele under Poch

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

He was still very young at Poocastke and their team was in disarray so nothing would surprise me with a players temperament there (he didn’t start a lot)

He is now at a dominant side that’s brick and he is still being effective

Imagine him having out supply line

I’d also add that Kane can drop deeper with him going up top and that would really be a curveball for us as Kane can pass better than most players and still hold up the ball

It’s another option we try sometimes with Llorente but Mitrovic is a more mobile player

Plenty of young players managed to play at Saudi Sportswashing Machine without being mental, I dont think its so simple to just write off.

Particularly when it corrolates so well with him being more balanced having played more at Fulham.

It raises the fair question of what happens when he doesnt play that much again?

Which at Spurs he simply wouldnt.

I havent doubted his talent, I know there is a player there, but there is also a fair degree of baggage and the idea of a personality actually fitting in with the club, and this is where the idea of signing him falls flat for me - as I described above.

As to Kane dropping deeper, Id much rather he didnt. But if he does, we already have players that can go beyond him to good effect. We dont need to spend £30-40m on Mitrovic for that tactical option.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Plenty of young players managed to play at Saudi Sportswashing Machine without being mental, I dont think its so simple to just write off.

Particularly when it corrolates so well with him being more balanced having played more at Fulham.

It raises the fair question of what happens when he doesnt play that much again?

Which at Spurs he simply wouldnt.

I havent doubted his talent, I know there is a player there, but there is also a fair degree of baggage and the idea of a personality actually fitting in with the club, and this is where the idea of signing him falls flat for me - as I described above.

As to Kane dropping deeper, Id much rather he didnt. But if he does, we already have players that can go beyond him to good effect. We dont need to spend £30-40m on Mitrovic for that tactical option.

True but plenty have described but is a goldfish bowl playing up there (and that was when they were good)

And he wouldn’t be a tactical option he would be a genuine alternative which we don’t have

Son is brilliant and IMO would be called WC ion lost leagues but he isn’t a hold up player and that showed quickly vs City. We changed but our style slightly but ultimately it was sons brilliance that won the game

I’d add that we won’t buy Mitrovic and i see him going to Neverton personally as their crying out for a goal scorer

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

The lad technically looks great McGinn reminds me of Gerrard in his play whereas Grealish is more like a De Bruyne type

Neither as are as good yet as those players but I still say you have to look at who their playing with and being managed but by, then add the perspective of playing with a kane or a dele under Poch

Not having a pop at McGinn at all, for his first season in England he has done exceptionally well.

The only negative(?) observation I made was that while he was still in Scotland trying to break through, Grealish was already playing well in the PL.

The only real point of which was to point out Grealish developed earlier and consequently has more experience.

Otherwise the only other direct comparison Ive made is to say it is Grealish who is making the difference and stepping up and not McGinn.

None of which is to try and slate McGinn, as I say I think he has been very good. Its just that they both play in the same team and are being brought up for comparison.

I think they are both really good players, particularly at that level, and watch them both with interest.

I actually really like Dean Smith as well so catch Villa in general if I can. And its an interesting point you raise - I think buying players from under him would suit us, he has them playing good football that should be complimentary with our side. (thought that at Brentford too!)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

True but plenty have described but is a goldfish bowl playing up there (and that was when they were good)

And he wouldn’t be a tactical option he would be a genuine alternative which we don’t have

Son is brilliant and IMO would be called WC ion lost leagues but he isn’t a hold up player and that showed quickly vs City. We changed but our style slightly but ultimately it was sons brilliance that won the game

I’d add that we won’t buy Mitrovic and i see him going to Neverton personally as their crying out for a goal scorer

Everton would be a good move for him.

I know Saudi Sportswashing Machine isnt brilliant, or even stable, by any means. But even so I dont think thats an excuse for his behaviour. As I say, other players manage to get along there just fine.

That isnt to say he would revert to that for us, its simply pointing out there is precedent and it would be foolish to ignore it.

And he absolutely would be a tactical option, I have no doubt. There is no way he will start ahead of Kane, except for those early cup games when we rest our better players (Poch always the same), so all that leaves him is either coming on to replace Kane or play with him.

Which is a tactical option, and thats basically it.

Son is a very different player, I agree, so when we play him we change tact a bit - but he is also the only player we have that has absolutely proven to come in and we dont skip a beat - we continue to play well (often better!) and get results.

We have Llorente as a very effective hold up option and rarely use him. I see no reason why Mitrovic would be any different.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Everton would be a good move for him.

I know Saudi Sportswashing Machine isnt brilliant, or even stable, by any means. But even so I dont think thats an excuse for his behaviour. As I say, other players manage to get along there just fine.

That isnt to say he would revert to that for us, its simply pointing out there is precedent and it would be foolish to ignore it.

And he absolutely would be a tactical option, I have no doubt. There is no way he will start ahead of Kane, except for those early cup games when we rest our better players (Poch always the same), so all that leaves him is either coming on to replace Kane or play with him.

Which is a tactical option, and thats basically it.

Son is a very different player, I agree, so when we play him we change tact a bit - but he is also the only player we have that has absolutely proven to come in and we dont skip a beat - we continue to play well (often better!) and get results.

We have Llorente as a very effective hold up option and rarely use him. I see no reason why Mitrovic would be any different.

Because Mitrovic doesn’t just rely on his height for a presence

Llorente doesn’t even jump anymore. The guys static at best and in front of goal is wasteful

He is here now and will be used but he won’t be here next season and we need an alternative

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not having a pop at McGinn at all, for his first season in England he has done exceptionally well.

The only negative(?) observation I made was that while he was still in Scotland trying to break through, Grealish was already playing well in the PL.

The only real point of which was to point out Grealish developed earlier and consequently has more experience.

Otherwise the only other direct comparison Ive made is to say it is Grealish who is making the difference and stepping up and not McGinn.

None of which is to try and slate McGinn, as I say I think he has been very good. Its just that they both play in the same team and are being bought up for comparison.

I think they are both really good players, particularly at that level, and watch them both with interest.

I actually really like Dean Smith as well so catch Villa in general if I can. And its an interesting point you raise - I think buying players from under him would suit us, he has them playing good football that should be complimentary with our side. (thought that at Brentford too!)

Great coach for his players
Just another one that’s not as well known as he isnt a sexy name
There are real gems in this country that are less known but need a chance (players and coaches)

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Because Mitrovic doesn’t just rely on his height for a presence

Llorente doesn’t even jump anymore. The guys static at best and in front of goal is wasteful

He is here now and will be used but he won’t be here next season and we need an alternative

Its just not enough.

As I say - barring injury he is just going to be a sub and then start at Newport/Chesterfield/whoever we draw in the cup.

While he could play off of Kane, it compromises Kane (better further forward) and means someone like Son/Alli/Erkisen isnt playing, its a complete change of shape and he simply isnt worth it.

With Jansen and with Llorente its also something Poch simply hasnt entertained, I see no reason why he would for Mitrovic.

Its wishful thinking to believe we will sign him and he will be anything other than a bench option. And I think we would need to carefully consider his reaction to that.

As well as, as I said, the amount of work required to get him up to the right level. Work that would also require minutes he likely wont get...

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Great coach for his players
Just another one that’s not as well known as he isnt a sexy name
There are real gems in this country that are less known but need a chance (players and coaches)

Absolutely.

His work at Brentford was exceptional and it amazes me he doesnt get more credit (though it is only fair to point out they are a very well run club too - kind of remind me of Swansea pre-PL).

Smith specifically has his teams playing positive, expansive football while demanding a team press and high work rate.

In terms of buying players - I think his players would stand a good chance of transitioning to Poch well because of how he has them working and playing.

I was chuffed when he got the Villa job, I really hope he gets them up.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Its just not enough.

As I say - barring injury he is just going to be a sub and then start at Newport/Chesterfield/whoever we draw in the cup.

While he could play off of Kane, it compromises Kane (better further forward) and means someone like Son/Alli/Erkisen isnt playing, its a complete change of shape and he simply isnt worth it.

With Jansen and with Llorente its also something Poch simply hasnt entertained, I see no reason why he would for Mitrovic.

Its wishful thinking to believe we will sign him and he will be anything other than a bench option. And I think we would need to carefully consider his reaction to that.

As well as, as I said, the amount of work required to get him up to the right level. Work that would also require minutes he likely wont get...

Kane misses about a third of out games and with his stile i don’t see that changing myself

Add in cup games and sub appearances and he could easily okay 20 games a season

But I don’t see us buying him myself

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Kane misses about a third of out games and with his stile i don’t see that changing myself

Add in cup games and sub appearances and he could easily okay 20 games a season

But I don’t see us buying him myself

And in those 3rd of games, how often have Janssen or Llorente been given the nod?

Two players brought in for exactly what you think Mitrovic would be.

And how often have Son (or even Moura) been given the job instead?

Its one of those, all things being peachy I get it. He is talented, physical, and could conceivably do a decent job. But thats all a bit sunshine and stardust for me. I honestly think the reality would be that he would barely play, and like Janssen/Llorente not get the regular time to be in form when we need him, and given his prior behaviour I strongly suspect he would end up being a disruption. Aside from the fact he really needs to improve his game too, and wont really get the chance to do that.

For these reasons I agree, I dont see us going for him at all.

If we were raiding Fulham its much more likely we would look at Sessegnon (or even Cairney/Shurrle) to supplement the AM position so we can use Son up front if we need too.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

And in those 3rd of games, how often have Janssen or Llorente been given the nod?

Two players bought in for exactly what you think Mitrovic would be.

And how often have Son (or even Moura) been given the job instead?

Its one of those, all things being peachy I get it. He is talented, physical, and could conceivably do a decent job. But thats all a bit sunshine and stardust for me. I honestly think the reality would be that he would barely play, and like Janssen/Llorente not get the regular time to be in form when we need him, and given his prior behaviour I strongly suspect he would end up being a disruption. Aside from the fact he really needs to improve his game too, and wont really get the chance to do that.

For these reasons I agree, I dont see us going for him at all.

If we were raiding Fulham its much more likely we would look at Sessegnon (or even Cairney/Shurrle) to supplement the AM position so we can use Son up front if we need too.

I still say we haven’t played Llorente or Janssenn because they weren’t good enough

Sign someone who is and they will get games

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I still say we haven’t played Llorente or Janssenn because they weren’t good enough

Sign someone who is and they will get games

I guess thats where we differ, I say Poch has decided Son (and even Moura) are good enough and will use them instead.

To the degree I doubt he will see spending relative big money on a back up striker as worth while.

Especially when there are much more pressing issues in the squad.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I guess thats where we differ, I say Poch has decided Son (and even Moura) are good enough and will use them instead.

To the degree I doubt he will see spending relative big money on a back up striker as worth while.

Especially when there are much more pressing issues in the squad.

But maybe fixing the back up striker issue fixed other issues

People have constantly moaned about CM but again fixing other issues may solve that

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

But maybe fixing the back up striker issue fixed other issues

People have constantly moaned about CM but again fixing other issues may solve that

I dont see what Mitrovic fixes in the squad at all. He would be another non-homegrown player taking up a space probably better used elsewhere.

As I said - Id get another AM to allow for genuine rotation all across the front. That, to me, seems much more valuable.

CM's problem is CM, its not caused elsewhere.

Though the CM issues have directly impacted the defence and attack IMO.

Again, Mitrovic solves nothing here.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I dont see what Mitrovic fixes in the squad at all. He would be another non-homegrown player taking up a space probably better used elsewhere.

As I said - Id get another AM to allow for genuine rotation all across the front. That, to me, seems much more valuable.

CM's problem is CM, its not caused elsewhere.

Though the CM issues have directly impacted the defence and attack IMO.

Again, Mitrovic solves nothing here.

I’ve heard people say that CM has affected the defence this season but IMO the defence has just been massively guilty of individual errors constantly and the best CMs in the world can’t account for that.

I think the CM issues are an excuse forbid failing elsewhere IMO

The so called weakness in that area was good enough to deal with citys, Chelsea’s, United and pools this season, and Dortmund’s