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Transfer speculation

AdamB said:
Depends on whether you want us to compete for trophies and top 4 again next season, or act as a development team. There's obviously a delicate balance to be sought between the two and Poch has got it right so far, however the further up in the league you want to compete and the more competitive you want to be in cups/Europe, the more difficult it is to rely on kids. I dont see us ever signing 27 year olds at peak valuations, but signing a 22/23 year old who is half-proven and could play in Dembele's position and maybe others is I think needed
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Surely that's winks job and he has not looked out of place at all

He is 22 too isn't he
 
AdamB said:
Depends on whether you want us to compete for trophies and top 4 again next season, or act as a development team. There's obviously a delicate balance to be sought between the two and Poch has got it right so far, however the further up in the league you want to compete and the more competitive you want to be in cups/Europe, the more difficult it is to rely on kids. I dont see us ever signing 27 year olds at peak valuations, but signing a 22/23 year old who is half-proven and could play in Dembele's position and maybe others is I think needed
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Winks isn't far behind Dembele at all, and by this time next season could well be established ahead of him. There's no CM in the world under £30m who I'd swap Winks for at this moment in time.
 
elltrev said:
Fine, but in that case (I.e. Dier as a CM) I'd rather focus on having a backup with Alli's skill set (which I think it's fair to say is more about goals than physicality). If he's also more adept than Alli and Eriksen at playing CM in a pinch then that's great, but I think that should be the order of the prioritisation.

I don't watch European football, so don't know if those guys you mentioned fit the bill!
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Well, the thing is, if we stick with the 3-4-2-1 (or some easily-swappable variation of it), then we already have an Alli approximation in Son - who's also more about goals than physicality. The other AM position, Eriksen's, will possibly be reinforced by Lamela returning to take up the role of being Eriksen's backup - he's got a roughly similar skillset in terms of corners, passing (short and long) and drive in the final third, although maybe without Eriksen's clinical finishing or ability to control the tempo.

The thing about advocating for a Dembele-clone is that the player's versatility will allow for replacing any of Wanyama, Dembele or Alli in a pinch, or in the event that a surplus of fully-fit, in-form options restricts his playing time in one position (DM, for example, or AM) - but that requires that he have a skillset that suits that sort of jack-of-all-trades role. To me, that necessitates being a CM more than an AM, although of course that's just my opinion on it.

Bedfordspurs said:
I suggested to my mates they should sign Vorm
redmond has been their stand out player hence why he has got in the England side (I know that's not the best measure). He has scored more goals for them than Lennon ever managed for us in a season for example. Has a. Erg high pass success rate too at 84%. He is as quick as someone like Zaha but IMO may cost less and is much more of an overall threat

We do not need cover for cover in midfield unless it's a very versatile player - I can't comment at all on the lad Goretzka as I've never seen him play
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Oh, I agree, versatility is key in any midfielder we bring in this summer - but re: Redmond, I'm not as convinced. Purely because, as I mentioned to @elltrev - we have four AMs to fit into that 2-man attacking band behind the striker in 3-4-2-1 (Alli, Eriksen, Son and Lamela in that order), not counting Onomah or Edwards if they merit the minutes. Lamela might not be here next season, but then, including Onomah and Edwards, that's still 5 for two positions. If we switch to a 4-2-3-1, then N'Koudou, Sissoko and co. also come into the picture as backup AMs/wingers for those three AM positions.

Point being, it's pretty crowded in our AM band. Now, that doesn't preclude bringing in a new AM, of course - but if we're going down that route, swapping Lamela out for a relatively cheaper, more raw option in Redmond seems counter-productive to me. Why not go for a more established, expensive player to challenge Alli and Eriksen from the off, in that case?

I see the parallels between Redmond and Zaha that you're drawing - but I'm equally dubious about the prospect of bringing in Zaha as well, for the same reasons.

As for Goretzka, I watched a fair bit of him this season because of tuning in to see how Bentaleb was doing at Schalke. He's pretty solid as a midfielder - roams across the midfield while Bentaleb holds things down, and can tackle, press, pass, dribble and score with relative ease - while being an imposing physical unit to boot, and very vocal on the field.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I suggested to my mates they should sign Vorm
redmond has been their stand out player hence why he has got in the England side (I know that's not the best measure). He has scored more goals for them than Lennon ever managed for us in a season for example. Has a. Erg high pass success rate too at 84%. He is as quick as someone like Zaha but IMO may cost less and is much more of an overall threat

We do not need cover for cover in midfield unless it's a very versatile player - I can't comment at all on the lad Goretzka as I've never seen him play
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Liked the look of Redmond when I saw him early in the season. He'd fit in well. But he wouldn't be cheap. There are one or two rich pickings from 'boro and the Swans should they go down. He's raw as anything but Adama Traora has frightening pace. Poch would turn him into Zaha++ imo. Would take a year or two to realise but he wouldn't cost much in transfer or wages.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Liked the look of Redmond when I saw him early in the season. He'd fit in well. But he wouldn't be cheap. There are one or two rich pickings from 'boro and the Swans should they go down. He's raw as anything but Adama Traora has frightening pace. Poch would turn him into Zaha++ imo. Would take a year or two to realise but he wouldn't cost much in transfer or wages.
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Traore has raw talent but they say he has no brain

I want players on the upward curve like the team and that's why I suggested redmond. Yes he would cost £25m but he would be a first team ready player and with Lamella leaving (just my opinion but he watched yesterday's game on his computer) he is a more direct replacement who won't need settling time

Interesting that so far very few are screaming for a striker
 
Baby steps with Winks imo. Talented - more talented passing wise that the current midfielders - but he doesn't have the physicality to play a whole season yet.

@Bedfordspurs Traore is one of those that would work well with Poch (and Levy' s budget). He's at exactly the right point in his curve, where Poch could be lauded for overseeing his miracle transformation into CL player. Not many players have that raw ability to run past other, very fast, defenders. The kid needs to put it all together granted, develop an end product, but who better than Poch to focus him?
 
SpurMeUp said:
Baby steps with Winks imo. Talented - more talented passing wise that the current midfielders - but he doesn't have the physicality to play a whole season yet.

@Bedfordspurs Traore is one of those that would work well with Poch (and Levy' s budget). He's at exactly the right point in his curve, where Poch could be lauded for overseeing his miracle transformation into CL player. Not many players have that raw ability to run past other, very fast, defenders. The kid needs to put it all together granted, develop an end product, but who better than Poch to focus him?
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Just because you have pace ... poch can't work miracles.

If you get a little touchy when son doesn't pass this guy will not even be ok the bench.
 
Gazza said:
Just because you have pace ... poch can't work miracles.

If you get a little touchy when son doesn't pass this guy will not even be ok the bench.
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I think the point is, Traore would fit what we do well: take raw young players and see them develop.


If and I take its a big 'if', Poch, his team and the existing players can induct him into their levels of professionalism and focus, then he might become a seriously good player. The outlay would be small, but the return could be massive.
 
Isn't Nkoudou our raw pacey wide player we hope to develop though? I think he's shown more quality at Marseille and the little time he's had here than Adama has at any of his clubs.
 
Yoof said:
Isn't Nkoudou our raw pacey wide player we hope to develop though? I think he's shown more quality at Marseille and the little time he's had here than Adama has at any of his clubs.
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He is yes. They are similar. But he doesn't have the strength and power that Traore has. Traore is another who has a 'beast mode'. Poch would find it, and bring it out more regularly imo.
 
FWIW one of my mates is a big Middlesbrough fan and he was saying earlier this year that Adama traore's decision making had cone on a lot since the start od the season!
 
If Lamela and Winks come back fit, all the lads in midfield - we would only need to buy if there was a serious injury I feel, for any position.

Do we still think about getting a proven EPL forward ? Might be one area, beef up that bench and replace an injured or suspended player.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Exactly
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No doubt Nkoudou has better end product - passing, finishing - almost anyone does, Traore is that weak in that department. But you can develop those skills, you can't develop the ability to sprint past players with the ball, or the sheer physical power that leaves top defenders in his wake. That can't be taught. It's there or it isn't. Traore + Poch = big things imo.
 
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indospurs said:
If Lamela and Winks come back fit, all the lads in midfield - we would only need to buy if there was a serious injury I feel, for any position.

Do we still think about getting a proven EPL forward ? Might be one area, beef up that bench and replace an injured or suspended player.
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How many "proven" strikers are there that would be happy to sit on the bench behind Harry all season, only playing in the league cup and against bottom of the table clubs?
 
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