Transfer Rumour Thread

[alekaras]

Lol; let's revisit this later in April. In one thing to say "we don't need a lot of sigings"; it's totally another to say "we don't need any signings"

Poch has done well, but he can only perform miracles to a certain degree. He has coach well and earned the right to have an extra striker to rotate with one who by next summer will have hardly had a break for nearly two years (and at that time a new striker would have been handly to give the team options going into the new season fully up to speed with Poch's methods, training etc)

He has also earned the right to choose which striker to bring in and not bring in anyone that doesn't meet his criteria.

And, by the way, the way you're phrasing it makes it sound as if the club is denying him funds to get a player. I know I'm being a bit picky about language today, but it makes a big difference in understanding what people are trying to convey.

 

[glorygloryeze]

He has also earned the right to choose which striker to bring in and not bring in anyone that doesn't meet his criteria.

And, by the way, the way you're phrasing it makes it sound as if the club is denying him funds to get a player. I know I'm being a bit picky about language today, but it makes a big difference in understanding what people are trying to convey.

I think the club has a zero spend again. The club is acting as acting as they always seem to in the transfer market: limiting the options as long as those options are deemed to be 'too expensive'. If you say that is 'denying him funds to get a player' that's up to you

 

[alekaras]

That's a lot of money, but the fee was only £4million. £5 million a year wages, but a comparable signing would probably be on £40k per week (?), so £2million a year, a difference of £3million per year to CA wages. Say we kept him for 2 years, that's 6 million extra (to a comparable signing) and we could probably sell him for £4-5m and get the transfer fee back after a couple of years. In the meantime, he would have covered Kane adequately and maybe even got crucial goals from the bench, or in Kane's absence.

All ifs and buts, but my point is that his high wages would still have been decent value for us in the short-term, imo.

So you would have had the backup striker getting paid twice what your main striker is making? That's exactly the kind of thing that can cause grumblings in a team and ruin the squad harmony. Not to mention we already had a backup striker on £100K a week.

 

[alekaras]

I think the club has a zero spend again. The club is acting as acting as they always seem to in the transfer market: limiting the options as long as those options are deemed to be 'too expensive'. If you say that is 'denying him funds to get a player' that's up to you

OK then, tell me how much you think the club should have budgeted for a backup striker and who would have been available for that amount.

 

[glorygloryeze]

OK then, tell me how much you think the club should have budgeted for a backup striker and who would have been available for that amount.

£10. Half of that would probably have gotten MD MKII from Fulham at the VERY START of the window and not get into this farcical situation where Poch didn't want him to be loaned back (because he actually wanted another striker now) so he would have been perhaps halfway up to speed with Poch's methods and the rest of the team.
Getting him early would have allowed them to get a replacement and us quickly address the squad in the way we obviously intended to anyway.

The usual 'dance and wait until near the end of the window so we can save a few pennies' has bitten us (and Poch) in the butt this time. Understandable in the case of, say, a Berahino where big (possibly silly) money is being asked for. Ridiculous when a small fee like the one involved for MD MKII was what we were trying to 'act smart' on...

 

[the dza]

So you would have had the backup striker getting paid twice what your main striker is making? That's exactly the kind of thing that can cause grumblings in a team and ruin the squad harmony. Not to mention we already had a backup striker on £100K a week.

I'd credit the players with a bit more intelligence than that, they'd know the high wages would be down to the low fee, so the transfer fee effectively goes into the pocket of the player rather then the selling club. Same if we sign a player on a 'free' transfer on high wages (hi Ade). A short term measure and if it helped to secure champions league football and possibly more (!) then I don't think you'd get any players complaining, especially as they'd be getting bigger bonuses as a result.

I'm not that bothered about it either way, but I think even with high wages (and this is only rumoured) then his signing would have made sense.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I'd credit the players with a bit more intelligence than that, they'd know the high wages would be down to the low fee, so the transfer fee effectively goes into the pocket of the player rather then the selling club. Same if we sign a player on a 'free' transfer on high wages (hi Ade). A short term measure and if it helped to secure champions league football and possibly more (!) then I don't think you'd get any players complaining, especially as they'd be getting bigger bonuses as a result.

I'm not that bothered about it either way, but I think even with high wages (and this is only rumoured) then his signing would have made sense.

I think it didn't happen because Poch didn't fancy the player and the player's style, rather than the wages myself (and i think that rumour is pure BS, no way Soton are paying him that imo)

 

[SpurMeUp]

£10. Half of that would probably have gotten MD MKII from Fulham at the VERY START of the window and not get into this farcical situation where Poch didn't want him to be loaned back (because he actually wanted another striker now) so he would have been perhaps halfway up to speed with Poch's methods and the rest of the team.
Getting him early would have allowed them to get a replacement and us quickly address the squad in the way we obviously intended to anyway.

The usual 'dance and wait until near the end of the window so we can save a few pennies' has bitten us (and Poch) in the butt this time. Understandable in the case of, say, a Berahino where big (possibly silly) money is being asked for. Ridiculous when a small fee like the one involved for MD MKII was what we were trying to 'act smart' on...

Probably correct. But one question: do you think one of Chadli, Son, Njie could do a better job than Dembele MkII up top? Would Dembele go into the side above these players automatically? If not you can see why it maybe better to put that 5m towards the right player later, and use what we have now.

 

[the dza]

I think it didn't happen because Poch didn't fancy the player and the player's style, rather than the wages myself (and i think that rumour is pure BS, no way Soton are paying him that imo)

I think you are probably right and I trust Poch's judgement.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Probably correct. But one question: do you think one of Chadli, Son, Njie could do a better job than Dembele MkII up top? Would Dembele go in above these players automatically? If not you can see why it maybe better to put that 5m towards the right player later.

Dembele is a young striker learning his trade. And Poch wanted to teach him the trade. He wanted to come.
Chadli, Son and Njie right now can maybe do a job there but long-term are not strikers themselves. Dembele whilst raw is, and i think in certain games perhaps would have come on for Kane for fresh legs, pace and also to give him a rest.
I don't think 5m was what stopped the deal, it was the fact Fulham wanted him to be loaned back for the rest of this season. Shambolic imv as it shouldn't have gotten to that pint when he even had a medical...

 

[alekaras]

£10. Half of that would probably have gotten MD MKII from Fulham at the VERY START of the window and not get into this farcical situation where Poch didn't want him to be loaned back (because he actually wanted another striker now) so he would have been perhaps halfway up to speed with Poch's methods and the rest of the team.
Getting him early would have allowed them to get a replacement and us quickly address the squad in the way we obviously intended to anyway.

The usual 'dance and wait until near the end of the window so we can save a few pennies' has bitten us (and Poch) in the butt this time. Understandable in the case of, say, a Berahino where big (possibly silly) money is being asked for. Ridiculous when a small fee like the one involved for MD MKII was what we were trying to 'act smart' on...

How do you know we didn't start working on getting Dembele in at the very start of the window? Do you have any inside information that we didn't approach Fulham on Jan 1? And did you know that Fulham has a transfer ban and could not buy any players in this window, but only get them on loan? And what makes you think that a team fighting to stave off relegation to League 1 would sell one of its most important players without having a replacement lined up?

It all looks simple from the fan's perspective (just chuck a bunch of £££ at them and deal is done), but it's not that simple in reality.

 

[glorygloryeze]

How do you know we didn't start working on getting Dembele in at the very start of the window? Do you have any inside information that we didn't approach Fulham on Jan 1? And did you know that Fulham has a transfer ban and could not buy any players in this window, but only get them on loan? And what makes you think that a team fighting to stave off relegation to League 1 would sell one of its most important players without having a replacement lined up?

It all looks simple from the fan's perspective (just chuck a bunch of £££ at them and deal is done), but it's not that simple in reality.

We have to go by what has ACTUALLY happened. If we started working on the deal to get him in at the start of the window it is highly likely he'd have had his medical at/near the start of the window.
He had his medical at the weekend; did it really take that long from after the summer, or even December, to negotiate a fee/terms?
In the past we have seen that we can tie up deals very early in a window - if we want to.
Yes, there may have been other competitors, but how many real competitors for his signature would have been higher up the priority list/more attractive than us?

As i say, if we negotiate early to get the player, then they also have enough time to get a replacement, as basically that is what in the end has killed the deal.

I could ask you the same questions and say how do you know the above ISN'T true?

 

[DubaiSpur]

It all looks simple from the fan's perspective (just chuck a bunch of £££ at them and deal is done), but it's not that simple in reality.

Funnily enough, Stoke City (not known as high movers in the market) managed to get a far bigger, far more complex deal (involving third-party owners, a player from a different country and a club-record transfer bid sent to a notoriously difficult-to-negotiate-with club) over the line with ease come the final day. While we were apparently felled by the titanic, world-shattering effort needed to buy a second-division youngster for 6 million that had six months left on his contract and wanted to move to us. And who, one presumes, had been identified by our vaunted 'Black Box' owner Mitchell well in advance of the window itself.

Truly, Stoke must have had some dark magicks that enabled them to pursue deals with unearthly vigour this window, which our poor lads couldn't hope to match. One cannot blame them for this: one can only applaud our poor, poor negotiators and staff for trying their hardest to ensure that ickle, tiny little Tottenham Hotspur at least tried to get a striker in amidst all the titanic struggles being conducted above our heads by the giants that are Stoke City, Saudi Sportswashing Machine and Norwich City.

Thanks for trying, fellas. You put in a great show.

Bravo, Levy. Bravo, Poch.
Bravo.

 

[alekaras]

We have to go by what has ACTUALLY happened. If we started working on the deal to get him in at the start of the window it is highly likely he'd have had his medical at/near the start of the window.
He had his medical at the weekend; did it really take that long from after the summer, or even December, to negotiate a fee/terms?
In the past we have seen that we can tie up deals very early in a window - if we want to.
Yes, there may have been other competitors, but how many real competitors for his signature would have been higher up the priority list/more attractive than us?

As i say, if we negotiate early to get the player, then they also have enough time to get a replacement, as basically that is what in the end has killed the deal.

I could ask you the same questions and say how do you know the above ISN'T true?

The problem is we do not know what ACTUALLY happened or how soon the negotiations started. It's all pure conjecture from what we read in the papers and we all know how much faith we should put into what they publish.

 

[awesome dawson]

Out of interest, why do you guys think this transfer window was so restrained compared to previous years?

Next seasons tv EPL deal is massive for even the bottom end clubs, Utd/Chelsea/Liverpool/Arse/City all kept quiet. Only really Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Watford and Stoke splashed the cash.

 

[DubaiSpur]

The problem is we do not know what ACTUALLY happened or how soon the negotiations started. It's all pure conjecture from what we read in the papers and we all know how much faith we should put into what they publish.

Again, compare it with the dog that *did* bark. Deals were finished this window for higher-profile players by lower-profile clubs. It isn't as impossible a task as people are making it out to be.

 

[alekaras]

Again, compare it with the dog that *did* bark. Deals were finished this window for higher-profile players by lower-profile clubs. It isn't as impossible a task as people are making it out to be.

Not a very apt comparison, Dubai. If we had the kind of squad Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Stoke have, I'm pretty sure we'd be looking at a broader range of players in different positions and made some deals ourselves. But with such a complete and deep squad as ours, where the only "hole" is backup striker and the target profile of the player we want is so much more specific, it becomes infinitely more difficult.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Not a very apt comparison, Dubai. If we had the kind of squad Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Stoke have, I'm pretty sure we'd be looking at a broader range of players in different positions and made some deals ourselves. But with such a complete and deep squad as ours, where the only "hole" is backup striker and the target profile of the player we want is so much more specific, it becomes infinitely more difficult.

No, I'm not disputing that. I'm arguing that the players we did target (pretty clearly Dembele, but also Sandro Ramirez and co., if the rumors and the likes of Lyall Thomas are to be believed) were far more 'gettable' for us than the likes of Imbula seemed to be for Stoke: yet they hauled it over the line, while we sat on our hands.

A Championship player, was young Moussa Dembele. Out of contract in the summer. And his club was willing to sell to us, too. For a piddling little fee (absolutely irrelevant fee, really) compared to the money being thrown about by clubs lower down the table: even Everton spent 13.5 million quid on a striker without blinking, and this, after already possessing a good striker in Lukaku. They didn't gamble on the prospect of Lukaku staying fit all season. And they're in the bottom half.

We are in the top four, and we decided to happily take the risk of having one fit striker heading into thirty five-odd games in the second half of the season. Because we couldn't get over Fulham's objections on the final day. Why did we wait so long? What kept us from pulling it off, when other clubs are (as I mentioned) able to pull off harder deals with greater ease?

Imbula was part-owned by a third-party, but Stoke tied it up smoothly on deadline day nonetheless, paying a record fee and sorting out the structure of the deal with Porto: Porto, who are notoriously difficult to negotiate with.

Remember what happened the last time we tried to buy a player with third-party ownership? We royally roostered up, that's what. Remember what our last row over payment structures looked like? Berahino, in the summer.

Why do we f*ck up things other clubs find easy to do? We did well in the summer with Toby and Son, and I thought the board and the manager were finally in concert when it came to getting in who we needed in, quickly and without fuss.

Nope. Not one bit.

The selectiveness of our targets doesn't concern me much by itself: the manager wants who he wants, and it's only fair that the club back him to get who he wants. But somewhere along the line, we f*cked up royal this time. Now, we've shown our hand: and we are one twisted ankle or torn hamstring away from utter disaster.

Utterly avoidable. Yet, utterly self-inflicted.

 

[alekaras]

No, I'm not disputing that. I'm arguing that the players we did target (pretty clearly Dembele, but also Sandro Ramirez and co., if the rumors and the likes of Lyall Thomas are to be believed) were far more 'gettable' for us than the likes of Imbula seemed to be for Stoke: yet they hauled it over the line, while we sat on our hands.

A Championship player, was young Moussa Dembele. Out of contract in the summer. And his club was willing to sell to us, too. For a piddling little fee (absolutely irrelevant fee, really) compared to the money being thrown about by clubs lower down the table: even Everton spent 13.5 million quid on a striker without blinking, and this, after already possessing a good striker in Lukaku. They didn't gamble on the prospect of Lukaku staying fit all season. And they're in the bottom half.

We are in the top four, and we decided to happily take the risk of having one fit striker heading into thirty five-odd games in the second half of the season. Because we couldn't get over Fulham's objections on the final day. Why did we wait so long? What kept us from pulling it off, when other clubs are (as I mentioned) able to pull off harder deals with greater ease?

Imbula was part-owned by a third-party, but Stoke tied it up smoothly on deadline day nonetheless, paying a record fee and sorting out the structure of the deal with Porto: Porto, who are notoriously difficult to negotiate with.

Remember what happened the last time we tried to buy a player with third-party ownership? We royally roostered up, that's what. Remember what our last row over payment structures looked like? Berahino, in the summer.

Why do we f*ck up things other clubs find easy to do? We did well in the summer with Toby and Son, and I thought the board and the manager were finally in concert when it came to getting in who we needed in, quickly and without fuss.

Nope. Not one bit.

The selectiveness of our targets doesn't concern me much by itself: the manager wants who he wants, and it's only fair that the club back him to get who he wants. But somewhere along the line, we f*cked up royal this time. Now, we've shown our hand: and we are one twisted ankle or torn hamstring away from utter disaster.

Utterly avoidable. Yet, utterly self-inflicted.

Utter disaster? We're in the bottom 4 and not the top 4?

I could answer all your points, but when I see statements like that I realize there's no amount of reasoning that will make you come at least partially around to a more rational point of view. In any case, I'm going to enjoy the great session we're having that no one would have predicted and hopefully you will too. You just might be pleasantly surprised.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Utter disaster? We're in the bottom 4 and not the top 4?

I could answer all your points, but when I see statements like that I realize there's no amount of reasoning that will make you come at least partially around to a more rational point of view. In any case, I'm going to enjoy the great session we're having that no one would have predicted and hopefully you will too. You just might be pleasantly surprised.

I'll be too busy watching through my fingers with terror every time Kane rushes into a challenge to enjoy things, I suspect.

Sigh. Just for once, I figured I didn't need to worry about random chance affecting us heading into the second half of a season.Just for once. 'We've changed,', I assured myself, ',we won't leave ourselves short.'

Ha, ha, bloody ha.

Let me ask you a question, alek, since you seem to take issue with the idea that an injury to Kane spells disaster: if Kane were injured in training yesterday, and we'd received news early in the day that his season had ended....would you be as sanguine about the prospects of us keeping up our form? And would you be as blase about the idea of us signing another forward?

 

[alekaras]

I'll be too busy watching through my fingers with terror every time Kane rushes into a challenge to enjoy things, I suspect.

Sigh. Just for once, I figured I didn't need to worry about random chance affecting us heading into the second half of a season.Just for once. 'We've changed,', I assured myself, ',we won't leave ourselves short.'

Ha, ha, bloody ha.

Let me ask you a question, alek, since you seem to take issue with the idea that an injury to Kane spells disaster: if Kane were injured in training yesterday, and we'd received news early in the day that his season had ended....would you be as sanguine about the prospects of us keeping up our form? And would you be as blase about the idea of us signing another forward?

In all honesty, I would. I'd actually be excited to see what our Plan B is. I saw it in the Monaco game and it looked very promising. And I would be comforted by the fact that going into next season we'd be an even more more formidable team that can seriously challenge for top honors.