Trans stuff

[Baleforce]

The sport issue is easily fixed, we already differentiate some sports on age, weight, ability.

Fighting sports get brought up in this debate a lot, but it’s a system failure not the inclusion of trans people, you match up on metrics, you shouldn’t put a powerful trans boxer in a ring with a smaller woman anymore than you would have matched up Lewis and Maguigan.

A lot of sports could do with a rethink on how they are tiered and segregated.

 

[Grays_1890]

Nicola Sturgeon’s refusal to say if trans women were women cost her her job. Prisons, hospitals, schools and sport are arenas where trans people’s presence should absolutely be allowed but there needs to be a sensible debate about it. And I don’t think some the trans lobbies do the trans community any favours at times. I completely understand the lobbies have to fight their corner in a robust way but I think the way they act sometimes has the opposite effect on people and turns people off rather than creating allies.

Given there are illnesses that are either exclusive or more prevalent in certain sexes then healthcare proffesionals should be given more leniency on the subject of causing offence esp when attempted to reach an accurate diagnosis.

Speaking to my mum (she runs three surgeries) a while back she said it's a hot topic in the medical world currently

 

[johnola]

Had a trans person next door.

Absolute fruitcake who has coloured my perception of them. Started off nice as pie, had tea and biscuits etc etc

But then the male side was ever present. They had the formula 1 at full volume in the middle of the night. Swore at delivery drivers and abusive to everyone. Hyper aggressive.

Hard to confuse with a lady.

 

[Gutter Boy]

The sport issue is easily fixed, we already differentiate some sports on age, weight, ability.

Fighting sports get brought up in this debate a lot, but it’s a system failure not the inclusion of trans people, you match up on metrics, you shouldn’t put a powerful trans boxer in a ring with a smaller woman anymore than you would have matched up Lewis and Maguigan.

A lot of sports could do with a rethink on how they are tiered and segregated.

This has a really good debate about trans people in women's sport: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podca...-to-deciding-the/id1461719225?i=1000590753290

 

[Jurgen the German]

The sport issue is easily fixed, we already differentiate some sports on age, weight, ability.

Fighting sports get brought up in this debate a lot, but it’s a system failure not the inclusion of trans people, you match up on metrics, you shouldn’t put a powerful trans boxer in a ring with a smaller woman anymore than you would have matched up Lewis and Maguigan.

A lot of sports could do with a rethink on how they are tiered and segregated.

Not quite as simple as that. Females who transitioned from being a man still have an advantage. The swimmer Lia Thomas is a good example. Barely competitive by all accounts as a man but she’s been smashing records all over the place as a woman. The most logical solution is create a trans category. Its not 100% fair but its fairer than banning them from competing.

 

[glasgowspur]

Had a trans person next door.

Absolute fruitcake who has coloured my perception of them. Started off nice as pie, had tea and biscuits etc etc

But then the male side was ever present. They had the formula 1 at full volume in the middle of the night. Swore at delivery drivers and abusive to everyone. Hyper aggressive.

Hard to confuse with a lady.

Twenty plus years ago I worked with a woman who transitioned to a man, nice person, if more men were like them the world would be a considerably better place.

 

[Baleforce]

This has a really good debate about trans people in women's sport: https://podcasts.apple.com/za/podca...-to-deciding-the/id1461719225?i=1000590753290

We need to think of it as trans people in sport, not trans peoples in men/women’s sport.

 

[Baleforce]

Not quite as simple as that. Females who transitioned from being a man still have an advantage. The swimmer Lia Thomas is a good example. Barely competitive by all accounts as a man but she’s been smashing records all over the place as a woman. The most logical solution is create a trans category. Its not 100% fair but its fairer than banning them from competing.

That’s why we need to rethink the tiering and segregation.

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

Had a trans person next door.

Absolute fruitcake who has coloured my perception of them. Started off nice as pie, had tea and biscuits etc etc

But then the male side was ever present. They had the formula 1 at full volume in the middle of the night. Swore at delivery drivers and abusive to everyone. Hyper aggressive.

Hard to confuse with a lady.

You ain't meet my missus.

 

[Gutter Boy]

We need to think of it as trans people in sport, not trans peoples in men/women’s sport.

I mean this genuinely/neutrally. Are there a group of female to male trans people who have a complaint that they are uncompetitive in male sports?

Because 100% of the debate seems to be about cis females finding themselves bumped off podiums by newly transitioned males to female.

 

[Jurgen the German]

That’s why we need to rethink the tiering and segregation.

I don’t see how that would solve the issue of females who were formerly males having an advantage of the skills they honed as boys/men and the

 

[Baleforce]

I mean this genuinely/neutrally. Are there a group of female to male trans people who have a complaint that they are uncompetitive in male sports?

Because 100% of the debate seems to be about cis females finding themselves bumped off podiums by newly transitioned males to female.

That’s the debate reacting to specific cases and not what potentially is possible, which is what sporting authorities should be doing going forward.

 

[Baleforce]

I don’t see how that would solve the issue of females who were formerly males having an advantage of the skills they honed as boys/men and the

What if we were not segregating on gender to start with, pick a sport, have different classes based on other metrics, weight, strength, speed etc, as we already do in boxing.

Smarter people than me would have to work it out, but sport has to be inclusive, there are already three tracks in UK football to be inclusive of all abilities, just extend that process.

There are social solutions here.

 

[johnola]

Not quite as simple as that. Females who transitioned from being a man still have an advantage. The swimmer Lia Thomas is a good example. Barely competitive by all accounts as a man but she’s been smashing records all over the place as a woman. The most logical solution is create a trans category. Its not 100% fair but its fairer than banning them from competing.

The solution is a female category and then another category for everyone else.

 

[Jurgen the German]

What if we were not segregating on gender to start with, pick a sport, have different classes based on other metrics, weight, strength, speed etc, as we already do in boxing.

Smarter people than me would have to work it out, but sport has to be inclusive, there are already three tracks in UK football to be inclusive of all abilities, just extend that process.

There are social solutions here.

That would be a bad idea. You wouldn’t get many female athletes volunteering to compete against their male counterparts. Men are just naturally bigger, stronger and faster. There’s a reason you hear about females who transitioned from men and now dominate their respective sport but there’s almost no male athletes who used to be females now dominating their sports. It comes to inclusion vs fairness and to me, fairness is the more critical of the two.

 

[Baleforce]

That would be a bad idea. You wouldn’t get many female athletes volunteering to compete against their male counterparts. Men are just naturally bigger, stronger and faster. There’s a reason you hear about females who transitioned from men and now dominate their respective sport but there’s almost no male athletes who used to be females now dominating their sports. It comes to inclusion vs fairness and to me, fairness is the more critical of the two.

Plenty of sports where it’s not just about power.

And you tier accordingly, don’t put people in outmatched situations, have weight categories for example.

Are we really happy about sport being determined primarily by genetics, or should everyone be able to compete?

 

[Jurgen the German]

Plenty of sports where it’s not just about power.

And you tier accordingly, don’t put people in outmatched situations, have weight categories for example.

Are we really happy about sport being determined primarily by genetics, or should everyone be able to compete?

We separate by sports by gender because that’s the most sensible, most competitive, logical and safest way to do so. We don’t let grown adults compete against children because it wouldn’t be a contest and it wouldn’t be safe. Fairness should always trump inclusion.

 

[Baleforce]

We separate by sports by gender because that’s the most sensible, most competitive, logical and safest way to do so. We don’t let grown adults compete against children because it wouldn’t be a contest and it wouldn’t be safe. Fairness should always trump inclusion.

You can have both.

We separate sports by gender because we used to mistakenly think there were only two.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You can have both.

We separate sports by gender because we used to mistakenly think there were only two.

Yes but men still have physical advantages over women. Including women who used to be men before they transitioned. A trans or an open category seems to be the most sensible way to accommodate trans people. It’s not perfect but it’s better than the alternatives.

 

[Baleforce]

Yes but men still have physical advantages over women. Including women who used to be men before they transitioned. A trans or an open category seems to be the most sensible way to accommodate trans people. It’s not perfect but it’s better than the alternatives.

Some males have physical advantages over other males, females, and non-binary people, as do some females, which is why we need to move away from gender as a differentiator.