Trades, Builders, Sparks, Plumbers, Roofers, Scaffolders

[markysimmo]

I was having a good chat with my aunt there about her kids, and how they fudged around in college switching courses for years. They hadn't a clue what they wanted to do and cost her a fortune. Never finished anything. She suggested that it might be better to let kids into the workforce for a few years, make some money, maybe learn a trade and then go to college later in life when they know what they want to do. I think it is good advice and might go that way with my own kids.

There are a whole load of jobs that will disappear with automation or be washed away by climate change. The trades will always be important though.

Only university which is needed is the university of life !!!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Well I’m building these houses...

Well my company is technically

I do the office work and help run this business too, so I keep my toe in but Don’t get dirty

 

[Rorschach]

Nice Cedar cladding? I love cedar.

 

[P.D.]

Having just refurbished my house it makes me wish I'd learnt a trade or was a bit handier round the house at a minimum. I think if I had to choose one it would be a carpenter, love some of the artistry. Traders all work stupidly hard (or the ones I used did), turned up at 7.30/8 - must feel like you've done a really solid days work when you get back. Definitely not a young mans game - my sparkie was going up in the loft, lifting boards and insulation to lay wiring etc and he's in his 60's.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Just about to start with a couple of refurbishment projects. Seriously considering hiring all the trades ourself - rather than get a builder/contractor to oversee the project. The one quote I got from a polish builder to do the whole job was probably at least double what it would cost if we were to hire the trades and oversee the project. @markysimmo did you manage the job or have a geezer who helped coordinate the project?

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

My old man was a brickie and he was still laying bricks at 60. It fudging well killed him. Not getting the romanticism for a job that wrecks a man's body.

 

[Lemonade Money]

My old man was a brickie and he was still laying bricks at 60. It fudging well killed him. Not getting the romanticism for a job that wrecks a man's body.

I know a lot of tradesman where this has happened. Sounds like some of the posters above have had the best of both worlds when starting in a trade, and switching to a desk.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Nice Cedar cladding? I love cedar.

Probably some composite or thermowood stuff.

Really struggling with cladding options on my refurb/extension at the moment. Love cedar and larch especially when it's fresh...weathers down a bit patchy but once fully weathered in the silver/grey shade does look good.

May I say the whole obsession with everything grey at the moment is gonna be a 'wtf were we thinking 'moment in 5 years time. Outside walls, cladding, exterior doors, wall colours, flooring, tiles, carpets, kitchens, furnishings....might as well park a battleship in the garden.

Life is grey enough as it is without surrounding yourself with it.

 

[johnola]

Just about to start with a couple of refurbishment projects. Seriously considering hiring all the trades ourself - rather than get a builder/contractor to oversee the project. The one quote I got from a polish builder to do the whole job was probably at least double what it would cost if we were to hire the trades and oversee the project. @markysimmo did you manage the job or have a geezer who helped coordinate the project?

Can I jump in here? I got a really good local builder who appointed subcontractors he trusted and made recommendations to me for people to come in to undertake jobs he was not responsible for. So the quality was assured in terms of the workforce.

However... we retained responsibility for plumbing and electrical works and external doors and windows ourselves...

Consequently We lost control over the timings at the point of finishing the first fix and particularly the second final fitting out.

Most of the delays were for kitchen and bathroom fittings, windows and doors.

Also note that the trade suppliers usually only deal with the trades so that can soon go pear shaped. In fact the worst aspect of the build and probably the whole industry is that punters like me choose kitchen/bathrooms suppliers/window suppliers and then we have to ask the builder to go on risk and put the order on their own account. Madness really and deeply unfair on our builder. And has been a major cause of unnecessary delays.

One example was the fitting of bifold doors. We were told it could be on site within a week and geared up for fitting it and getting the build watertight and secure.

In the event it took six weeks for the buggers to supply it meaning that our trades were reluctant to leave kit inside and of course just putting us behind with things like plastering and rendering the doors in.

Completely unforeseen, frustrating and difficult to manage.

 

[johnola]

Ive rarely known pride in a job well done in an office like I used to every week in the building trades - and I wasnt even building my own place at the time!

I absolutely loved being able to look at something and think that it wasnt even there before I started, or how I had ripped out the old and installed new and now the place looks immeasurably better etc.

I ended up in development work, mostly VBA and SQL, and later SAS, and its the only thing thats come close

Too post Nayim. And I agree with you about programming- I’ve also done some SAS etc and loved it for the same reasons.

I hope your daughter makes the right choices for her future.

 

[Rorschach]

Just about to start with a couple of refurbishment projects. Seriously considering hiring all the trades ourself - rather than get a builder/contractor to oversee the project. The one quote I got from a polish builder to do the whole job was probably at least double what it would cost if we were to hire the trades and oversee the project. @markysimmo did you manage the job or have a geezer who helped coordinate the project?

You are taking on a lot if you are not experienced with such things. Getting things in the right sequence, hiring tradesmen you trust, and what do when something goes wrong (it will) is a lot to take on board if you are totally winging it. IMO

 

[SpurMeUp]

You are taking on a lot if you are not experienced with such things. Getting things in the right sequence, hiring tradesmen you trust, and what do when something goes wrong (it will) is a lot to take on board if you are totally winging it. IMO

This is a smaller project. Have to move out for 5-6 months to do the work, so found a little flat that needs a new interior. Nothing structural. Builder quoted 40k which seems crazy - fit flooring, plaster a few hole in the walls (not many), sand and paint, fit a new kitchen and new bathroom, and some joinery (window seats - nice view). 60s council tower block, can just about see it from the top of the south stand.

 

[scaramanga]

This is a smaller project. Have to move out for 5-6 months to do the work, so found a little flat that needs a new interior. Nothing structural. Builder quoted 40k which seems crazy - fit flooring, plaster a few hole in the walls (not many), sand and paint, fit a new kitchen and new bathroom, and some joinery (window seats - nice view). 60s council tower block, can just about see it from the top of the south stand.

That easily sounds like £40k of work

 

[SpurMeUp]

That easily sounds like £40k of work

Didn't include the cost of the kitchen, bathroom, flooring etc basically any second fix items.

Have some experience - took 180m2 concrete shell and turned it into an office. My current thinking is to hire a competent fella who can oversee the floors, joinery, kitchen, walls. Then get an electrician we've worked with before and someone to do the bathroom. It maybe a false economy. Time will tell!

 

[Rorschach]

Didn't include the cost of the kitchen, bathroom, flooring etc basically any second fix items.

Have some experience - took 180m2 concrete shell and turned it into an office. My current thinking is to hire a competent fella who can oversee the floors, joinery, kitchen, walls. Then get an electrician we've worked with before and someone to do the bathroom. It maybe a false economy. Time will tell!

40k is way too much if these are excluded.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Just about to start with a couple of refurbishment projects. Seriously considering hiring all the trades ourself - rather than get a builder/contractor to oversee the project. The one quote I got from a polish builder to do the whole job was probably at least double what it would cost if we were to hire the trades and oversee the project. @markysimmo did you manage the job or have a geezer who helped coordinate the project?

If it's,as you've said later, a smaller project then give it a go BUT don't underestimate the task.

Im 6 weeks in to doing our current place, 45sq m extension and full house refurb. I know sh.it loads but there is sh.it loads i don't know. Project managing is all about knowing the timeframes, knowing the lead times, and knowing in advance the technical details, and solutions for them, ahead of time. Organising trades, materials as well as trawling through endless websites and brochures, locking in what you like and keeping budgets within limits is very time consuming. Our current place is our long term house so the finish, fit out and product choices are doubly important and doubly time consuming.

BUT if you can keep ahead of the curve (by doing the hours of thinking), trades will know what they're meant to be doing, bco will be happy, and you can really make a big saving on materials if you're not having to 'rush' buy things.

You can definitely save but never underestimate it. I know many people who have got themselves in a right mess thinking its 'a piece of pi.ss'.

The reason I don't mind employing individual trades is I know what I'm talking about, so can't be bull.bricked, plus it controls the job better financially ie people can get in a pickle with a do it all building firm if they don't control the money properly. If I'm not happy with an individual s work, attitude, reliability I can f.ck them off with little loss. Luckily most the guys I use are solid. Plus I can do bits myself, quite often things that will save me decent £'s (chasing walls for sparks, lay ufh, cladding, reroofing garage, plasterboarding etc etc) and it means I'm on the job to iron out any problems.

 

[Rorschach]

If it's,as you've said later, a smaller project then give it a go BUT don't underestimate the task.

Im 6 weeks in to doing our current place, 45sq m extension and full house refurb. I know sh.it loads but there is sh.it loads i don't know. Project managing is all about knowing the timeframes, knowing the lead times, and knowing in advance the technical details, and solutions for them, ahead of time. Organising trades, materials as well as trawling through endless websites and brochures, locking in what you like and keeping budgets within limits is very time consuming. Our current place is our long term house so the finish, fit out and product choices are doubly important and doubly time consuming.

BUT if you can keep ahead of the curve (by doing the hours of thinking), trades will know what they're meant to be doing, bco will be happy, and you can really make a big saving on materials if you're not having to 'rush' buy things.

You can definitely save but never underestimate it. I know many people who have got themselves in a right mess thinking its 'a piece of pi.ss'.

The reason I don't mind employing individual trades is I know what I'm talking about, so can't be bull.bricked, plus it controls the job better financially ie people can get in a pickle with a do it all building firm if they don't control the money properly. If I'm not happy with someones work, attitude, reliability I can f.ck them off with little loss. Luckily most the guys I use are solid. Plus I can do bits myself, quite often things that will save me decent £'s (chasing walls for sparks, lay ufh, cladding, reroofing garage, plasterboarding etc etc) and it means I'm about to iron out any problems.

I'm thinking of laying he underfloor pipes myself in my own build. I'll get someone to design the layout flow/returns back to the manifold.
Any advice or gotcha's you've experienced doing it?

Edit: I haven't settled on a particular system yet

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

My old man was a brickie and he was still laying bricks at 60. It fudging well killed him. Not getting the romanticism for a job that wrecks a man's body.

Different time. With Pilates and Yoga and better safety procedures on site the next generation wont get as many health issues. Though for anyone I think it is wise to move out of those sort of jobs and something less physically demanding. But working on building sites was the happiest time of my working life.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I'm thinking of laying he underfloor pipes myself in my own build. I'll get someone to design the layout flow/returns back to the manifold.
Any advice or gotcha's you've experienced doing it?

Edit: I haven't settled on a particular system yet

Are you laying/clipping it on top of the insulation then screeding?.

It's not difficult, especially with a layout plan, you can even connect it up to the manifold and get the plumber to pressure test before screeding, and do the connections to the boiler.

I have had a quote though from a firm that lays the pipe, installs the manifold and pressure tests and then pumps the liquid screed in, this includes all the materials pipe, manifold etc and it was more than reasonable... I may leave it for them to do. Are you in the UK. (South)

 

[Rorschach]

Are you laying/clipping it on top of the insulation then screeding?.

It's not difficult, especially with a layout plan, you can even connect it up to the manifold and get the plumber to pressure test before screeding, and do the connections to the boiler.

I have had a quote though from a firm that lays the pipe, installs the manifold and pressure tests and then pumps the liquid screed in, this includes all the materials pipe, manifold etc and it was more than reasonable... I may leave it for them to do. Are you in the UK. (South)

Yep exactly that. Clipping on top of the insulation and then a liquid screed. I fancy a go at it even though I've only seen it done a few times. I might just leave the pipe ends around the manifold and let the plumber do that bit too. No, I'm not in the UK.